I (33m) was in an accident when I was 22 years old. It was near fatal and I suffered a TBI as a result. I had been dating Jessie (33f) for 5.5 years at that point and she was at the hospital with my family including my older brother Cameron (35m). Soon after the accident Jessie found out she was pregnant and terminated with Cameron's help and a while after they started having an affair. My sister caught them and she forced them to tell me when I recovered enough.
Jessie confessed eventually but she acted like we were going to work through it. I made it clear it would never happen and I told her I never wanted to see her again and I wouldn't be going back to our place ever again. Cameron tried to shame me for that but I kicked him out and refused to see him. Our sister let him know he was dead to me and I'd never forgive him for it.
For a while he let me work on recovery but he tried to make amends or whatever. But I rejected it and then I found out him and Jessie were together and expecting a baby.
The whole thing made recovery so much worse and my sister was honestly the best support and only person I fully trusted through it all. My parents wanted me to work things out with Cameron and Jessie. They wanted us to be a family and I just couldn't deal with them trying to force me into that after the way I'd been treated. My sister had to be my advocate at times when I couldn't do it myself.
I'm back to normal now but had a health scare last year in the run up to my wedding. It was stress related.
Cameron found out the health scare in April and he asked our sister for my contact details. She refused to give them so he started showing up at her house until he caught me and my wife there. He was demanding answers about why nobody let him know sooner about the health scare and why I wouldn't let her share my details. He said we needed to put this to bed once and for all and get closure. I told him I needed no closure and because he was digging in his heels I decided to tell him to fuck off one more time for good measure. He told me him and Jessie both need my forgiveness and they need me in their lives because their kids ask questions and it sucks not having answers. I told him I'll never forgive them, never let them back into my life and fuck him for putting his kids questions on anyone but him and Jessie, and I told him I'll never give him the comfort of closure. I said he should try being in my position 11 years ago and then have the people who stomped all over you trying to demand forgiveness and closure. I told him to get over himself.
My sister had to call the police to make him leave. He would not go. She heard from him afterward and he was ranting at her that I was willing to die spiting them and it's wrong and if I'm happy I should move on and forgive, etc. She blocked him and told our parents she is completely done with Cameron too.
They're so upset over what happened and they asked me if there was nothing that could be done to make me forgive. That they hated keeping my health scare from Cameron and would hate for him to miss out on saying goodbye if the worst happened to me. I told them he should have thought about that before everything. They begged me to be more loving.
I admit it pisses me off that they want to brush this all away and for us to play pretend. But AITA because I won't actually work on forgiving and allowing them closure?
NTA, what exactly do they want you to do? Tell the kids how their parents cheated, that their mom actually been pregnant with their cousin which lead to said cheating and you hate their parents guts? Like what exactly do they think would be smart about forcing a relationship? You owe them crap, and your parents show clear favoritism that they still don’t understand why TWO of their kids now is no contact
They expect me to be the loving uncle, brother and brother in-law and to act like the past never happened. But you don't forget stuff like that.
Nor should you. Get a restraining order on that asshat of a brother so you can be completely done with him. No one is entitled to forgiveness. Your brother's a special kind of POS.
How entitled his brother is to feel he needs health updates on OP when he cheated on him with his girlfriend when he was literally in the worst health condition of his life. What a prick!
My petty ass would be like, "Why do you want health updates for me? So you can try to get with my wife next time I have a health scare? Not like there isn't a pattern of behavior..."
But seriously, it's not OP's responsibility to help the brother and ex come to terms with their own actions.
Chef's kiss.
"Why are you so interested in my health condition? So you can get another chance to fuck my wife while I'm at death's door and abort our future baby behind my back, like last time?"
Trust me, I would have said that in OP's shoes.
bro is just mad that he missed out this time
And he wonders why no one tells him anything 😂
Their parents definitely did. Somehow his brother found out about the health scare? Doesn't seem like OP's sister would leak it... especially after his parents whined about it "being hard" not telling the brother...
I would also ask him if he got a DNA test on their kids. Once a cheater, always a cheater.
If they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you.
Beautiful, yep “do you want to while I’m back in a hospital bed so you can have another crack at another wife??
I thought the same thing.
This is exactly what I would have said to him. But I hold grudges and I'm petty AF
This would be my petty ass. WTH is wrong with people
I like you.
I know this sounds really dark but it almost feels like they *expected * OP to die whilst they were cheating and they then would’ve have played it off as a tragic romance, “our shared trauma from losing our favorite person in the world brought us together”
They’re mad because he didn’t die and now they look like scum (because they are) and the only way they can be “redeemed” in the public eye is if he publicly forgives them. Until then everyone knows they’re the absolute worst because their relationship is living proof of their betrayal every day of their lives.
They want health updates because if he does end up dying, all they really need is a plausible story where they had a private conversation with him where he “forgave them on his deathbed” and they can spin a version of the lie they always planned on spinning. Everyone knowing they’re NC with OP prevents that.
OP should add to his will he doesn't forgive them and make them be there for the reading.
This. This is my level of petty.
I agree
I'm boggled that the brother thinks he's entitled to forgiveness after literally cheating on his brother's girlfriend of 5 1/2 years 😳😳 like what?!? I know there's a bro code and a girl code that says don't fuck with your siblings partners or exes,, a five and a half year relationship isn't the same as a 3-month relationship for goodness sake 🤬😡
Agree with all this. Plus the really f'd up cherry on top of it all is they aborted his future child while he was on his deathbed, Cameron helped abort his own damn nephew/niece just so he wouldn't possibly have the awkwardness of raising that kid and having to tell them what was what in the future. There is a special place in hell for those two and there tickets are already stamped and paid for.
Maybe so he could continue the tradition and try and cheat with OP’s current partner. Where else to pick up women but at OP’s hospital bedside.
And maybe go low contact with the parents until they stop being his flying monkeys.
Yep, sometimes you gotta step back till they get the message.
They won't because "Image Over Integrity" doesn't matter that golden child cheated with OP's then girlfriend and helped her abort OP's child, he's sorry and why won't OP and sister get in line to the cheaters. NTA
OP's parents don't give two craps about him because while Cameron and ex are POS, they gave them grandkids, that's all they care about. If I were OP, and had a child in the future, I wouldn't let them close near them. They chose a child and grandchild over the other, well that's the only ones they'll have.
The only real way to crack that behavior is to embarrass them every time, or be crystal clear they aren't going to resolve if they aren't going to address it appropriately.
OP isnt the one who got away with murder. Maybe address the murder instead of blaming the victim for not being un-stabbed by a half-hearted apology.
Right? Oh they hated lying to Cameron? Well OP hated hearing how his then gf aborted his potential child to then turn around and fuck his brother.
Everyone has to live with the things they hate. Why are the parents exempt? They raised that guy and support his crap.
Don't leave out the skank ex-GF.
Seriously, she’s just as trash as the brother. No passes for her either.
They want you to forgive and forget and pretend they did nothing wrong to be absolved of consequences, did they even apologize to you? Because considering they sticked together even afterwards speaks volumes of how entitled the two of them are for demanding your forgiveness, "you're happy anyway, why are you mad?!", the level of audacity of believing you making the best out of a crappy situation entitles him to be forgiven instantly and play pretend for his kid.
I didn't live this with a brother or a girlfriend, but I did live it with an abusive father that abandoned me and ditched me to have new kids, and have my entire family guilt tripping and shaming me and treating me like the bad guy for not forgiving and forgetting to play happy family with the woman he cheated my mom with and to be an older sibling to kids he abandoned me for. They even have the nerve to tell me the same BS: "What are we supposed to say to your siblings? That you hate them and don't wanna see them?", and I would go "how about the fact that you cheated and abused my mom, abused me, abandoned me at 12, leaving me in charge of a sick mother and taking care of everything while instead of acting like a father, you decided to go out on dates and have other kids instead?", but of course they don't have the guts for that, it would be admitting they are screwed up.
Stick to your guns, and tell your parents they are a bunch of cowards and enablers.
Jessie did even though she immediately expected that to be all that was needed for us to be like we had been before. But once I learned everything I couldn't look at her.
"Sorry, I aborted your baby and cheated you with your brother while you were in the hospital recovering from an accident and planned to pass your brother's baby for yours hadn't your sister caught us, but now it's all good, right?"
Yeah, no wonder why you couldn't look at her, and then your brother's audacity to shame you for it. Also, her apology couldn't be sincere considering she didn't feel sorry enough to break up with your brother, no, she stayed with him and had a baby she refused to have with you. That speaks volumes alone. And now they want you to play happy family for them to absolve them from accountability?
Screw them, they deserve each other, they can tell their kid how they formed their "new family" by betraying the prior one.
I think it's worse. She didn't abort OP's brother's child, she aborted OP's. After, she engaged in an affair with the brother and went on to have the brother's child(ren).
Scum.
she aborted OP's
This!!!! With the help and support of OP Brother, who is ALSO HER AP. All while OP is cooped up in the hospital!!!! That's just EVIL.
FUCKING NIGHTMARE FUEL
And then she expected OP to take her back! What planet is this girl from that she thinks that would fly?
Insanity!
How could anyone truly believe that could do ALL THAT, and then everything just goes back to exactly how they were before?!?!?!?
Exactly!
NTA, at ALL. This ⬆️⬆️⬆️‼️
I feel tremendous anger for OP. These two betrayed him when he nearly died; and while he endured a terrible recovery. They attempted a despicable plan of action to continue and double down on this horrendous treachery. I say let them wallow in their deceit and let their close family & friends know why they are not to be free of their betrayal.
Let them acknowledge how selfishness and greed violated the trust and confidence of their brother/SO and now their sister. Their choice to betray OP cleaved their entire family so that their children will not ever experience and enjoy a wholly encompassing family as others who do not have traitors, do.
Let them fully comprehend how they have devastated their entire family bc they were selfish, greedy, felt and now show little remorse. They are not contrite, in the least. They have tried to contrive an acceptable story for why things happened and why their children do not have an uncle and an aunt.
Kids know things and they can smell deceit. Maybe this is why the brother & the ex are lobbying for closure. Those kids are asking questions that have unsatisfactory answers as told by their parents. Good luck with those lies.
Best of luck and sending happiness and peace to you and your chosen family. 🫂👍💪👏❤️
And only you and your chosen family ~ they deserve no peace or forgiveness. .. NTA! I'm sorry that happened to you, but extremely happy you recovered and found a new woman you make your wife ❤️
That must wind your brother up. He knows he's the second choice she settled for as a consequence of what they did. If he tries to push it again, ask him why he's so concerned about your health now when he didn't give a damn after your accident. Is he concerned, or is he just upset that he missed an opportunity to try 'comforting' your current partner with his penis?
Exactly. His concern about OPs health ended when he used his penis for a wellness check on the girlfriend. He didn’t care then, not sure why he cares now.
(is he just upset that he missed an opportunity to try 'comforting' your current partner with his penis?)
Gooood point.
I had to have a conversation with my ex because he cheated a lot when I was in and out of hospital, then was butthurt when I cut him out and didn't tell him about other health things. He needed to be reminded that I wasn't interested in telling him about my medical situation when his method of coping with a medical crisis was to go out and bang random women, which he was free to do at that point anyway since we were broken up. He tried to say he did it because he was struggling, and didn't like me pointing out that funnily enough, so was I, but I didn't immediately jump to throwing myself crotch-first at other people.
So I see the similarities with OP's brother. Why on earth would OP trust his brother in a medical crisis when the last time he did so, his brother decided that the best way he could help OP was to go balls deep in OP's girlfriend?
I am so sorry you went through this. Hopefully you're in a better place.
Like always, I am fascinated and equally horrified how cheaters justify their actions. Their main argument is always their victimisation and how they always put themselves first as if they were the only ones to struggle with something...
I definitely am in a better place, thank you.
The justifications are fascinating, but so is the cluelessness. I honestly would like to ask OP's brother what exactly he expected to happen with all of this. Did he think he and Jessie could just keep cheating, and OP would just never find out? Did he think OP would find out, forgive them both, and just have everything carry on as normal? Did he think OP would find out, end things with Jessie, and then stick around and be besties with him and Jessie? Genuinely, what on earth was he expecting would happen? The brother seems shocked that OP hasn't just forgiven and forgotten it all, and it's honestly insane.
Same with Jessie. OP said she thought things between him and her would just carry on as normal after it all came out, and I'd love to ask her how she thought that would work. Did she honestly think OP would want to settle down, marry, and have kids with a woman who aborted his child behind his back and cheated with his brother whilst OP was in hospital? Did she think he'd trust her to stand by him, or did she think OP would be cool with her using his brother as an emotional support penis any time there was a crisis? It's typical cheater behaviour, and it fascinates me because it's insane. No sane, rational person would do these things and think everything would be okay. And the self-victimisation comes in there as well, because when you end things with them, they cycle through a load of BS until they come out with a variation of, "So you're just going to throw the relationship away?". They ignore that they shot the relationship in the face and cremated the remains and expect the person they've hurt to repair the damage that they did and put it all back together again. It honestly should be studied because when you really sit back and look at it, cheaters have to have something wrong with them to be able to think that way.
I'm glad to hear this. Whenever I read someone who had been cheated on, I genuinely hope they're doing better.
I come from a family (bio and in-laws) who accept cheating as a normal part in relationships which I absolutely oppose.
You perfectly summarize in one word these people : they're insane. Going to the Reddit subs where they discuss their affairs were eye-opening (and rage inducing) in their inner psychology. My favorite parts are:
1) when the cheaters are cheated on by their affair partners. Apparently, it's a greater breach of trust to them than what they're doing to their spouses. It's crazy to read how they totally understand the hurt and disrespect that come from a betrayal. But when it comes to their partners? That's just a "game", "a bump in a relationship/marriage".
2) the other women/men generally paint themselves as some sort of heroes of a tragedy love story with married people. They thrive by being picked up and go into depression when their married partner don't divorce with their spouses. It's also quite interesting to see how they act as some sort of a "strong figure" when they decide to stop seeing said married partners.
3) Last but not least, probably the best is when cheaters complain about when their future ex-spouses found out their affairs and waste no time in filling for divorce! I remember reading about one who was so delusional that even his pairs had to spell out for him lol.
You were talking about self-victimisation, that's exactly what happened to this guy. Someone even said that his ex-wife was a queen to serve him divorce papers and move out while he was out. He didn't take it well ahah.
There has to have been some blowback from family and friends about the origin and circumstances of their relationship. It's not OP's responsibility to excuse the inexcusable to redeem them in those people's eyes. I imagine she is not a family favorite to the sane members of the family. Just Cameron's sloppy seconds.
It's why he and Jessie want forgiveness. They aren't sorry, but if OP forgives them, they think the rest of the family will stop side-eyeing them and magically forget that he has no family loyalty and she thinks a gene pool is the same thing as a dating pool.
You can't trust a snake in the grass so why should you trust her...
Let me understand, your brother killed your son with your ex, then cheated on you at your worst moment and after you knew everything he decided to have a family with her and you are the wrong one in the eyes of both of them and your parents for not wanting them in your life? What you went through must have been hell, I'm so sorry. For your mental health, cut off your parents and send them a cease or desist letter. If possible, see if there is a way to take a protective measure against them since your sister had to call the police for him to leave. If they still continue, let them know that you will post the story on the internet and tag your co-workers, friends and employers. Please stay away from these crazy people…
They're putting family peace on you because all their weaknesses led to the discourse in the first place. z I'm fairly forgiving but it would be a hard pass here for me if I was in your shoes. They made their choices.
Why, so they can betray you some other way? These two have proven what kind of human beings they are. Why would want that in your life?
Seriously, all else aside (and it’s a LOT to put aside), they proved themselves to be untrustworthy and immoral, why would anyone want people like this around their new family? So what - they can try to seduce their new spouse or poison their children? Hard pass and good riddance. 11 years is a long time, all love and bonds are atrophied by now, what’s the upside of inviting them back in?
Remember that your parents want you to make nice for THEIR comfort. Not yours. Bc it upsets them to have to deal with the fact that they raised one kid to be a massive AH. They are just as selfish as your brother.
Yea my anger and vengeful nature would have probs left me in jail
That is because they are very selfish assholes. They do not care about you and only think about their own feelings. My brother is like this, selfish entitled and has BP to boot. He is blocked but luckily my relatives all myob. They do not want to be involved and i don't want them to be.
I would tell him to leave you alone or you out what he did publicly to EVERYONE.
Also get a restraining order. LC or NC with parents if they do not respect your boundaries.
They need you to forgive so the can live with themselves. They know they are scum of the earth and need you to make them feel better. Live your life, be happy and let karma take care of those two scumbags! ✌🏻
If roles were reversed how would anyone of those whose says forgive would feel. Easy to say forgive when you aren't affected.
Your sister is AMAZING may you both be happier, healthier and at peace.
Congratulations on choosing yourself and your peace.
So, did you not have any say in them aborting your child?
I couldn't at the time but no. I had no idea there was a baby before my accident or in the first few weeks after I woke up.
As callous as this might sound, it’s a blessing in disguise that she aborted. Her attraction to your brother (and the possibility of her being pregnant with HIS baby) would have surfaced eventually. You could still be embroiled with her with a kid you’re attached to stuck in the middle, instead of having a nice life with a better woman like you do now. Fate intervened. I’m sorry that you had to go through something as life-threatening and terrifying as a bad TBI when finding all this out. I hope you have peace soon.
This may be my suspicious nature, but I don't think they aborted OP's child. I think the affair started earlier and that they aborted their own child to avoid the messy situation. At that time, they probably still were hoping that OP would recover and that things would go back to normal. If that had happened, the idea that OP was raising his brother's child would have been difficult for brother and ex to deal with, and it would have been a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode at the moment that OP found out.
NTA. You made your peace and it doesn’t include them. Too bad if that doesn’t work into their view of the world. Their problem not yours. They need to find their own peace if they can. You shouldn’t be forced into being a part of the lives of people who betrayed you at your lowest point. Period.
Reddit’s got to ask. Are you absolutely sure the aborted child was yours and not your brother’s? Sorry.
Na. Just tell them if you see their kids, you will tell them everything. Each and every time. That their mom terminated a half-sibling so she could bang her boyfriend's brother while he was in the hospital.
Normally I'm not fond of reddit's default position of "cut all ties to family at a mild inconvenience", but your brother knew the line he was crossing. In most of history, this would have ended with one person not leaving the situation other than in a pine box.
Do let your parents know they picked a side, and it wasn't your's.
IMHO, I'd look into moving out of the area and making a fresh start with your wife.
I don't like the word but I think they are frankly quite "delulu" if they think the affair is something that can get blown by the wind.
You don’t have to forget or forgive…you can just move on (credit Taylor Swift). Which is what it appears you have done… NTA
They are going to find out someday. I feel bad for the children because it is most likely going to tank any opinion they have of their parents. Although their parents are so full of themselves i can't see them being very good parents to begin with.
OP needs to forgive us. ME ME ME ME
They don't give two shits about OP or they never would have done it in the first place.
My brother sucks and he is blocked. Luckily my relatives do not get involved.
THIS!!!! Absolutely this.
Yes this maybe the correct route to take. Gather everyone up including his kids and explain the situation then go on with your life without them.
Are your parents aware of the baby you would have had, but she terminated with the help of your brother just to get knocked up by him and keep it?
They know.
They're POS parents for not standing up for you.
The fact that they are choosing him over you despite knowing exactly what he did should be all you need to know about your relationship with them.
I don't know your life, but you should really consider if your life is better for their presence or not.
I am a parent and I cannot wrap my head around the fact that your parents think that you are supposed to forgive and forget and embrace a relationship with these people who handed you betrayal after betrayal after betrayal.
While I understand that it’s hard to turn your back on your own child, I would tell my son (your brother) that he was not going to be invited to any family gatherings if it meant that you would not be there. Because the onus is on your brother for his absolutely horrific choices. And it wasn’t a one time grief mistake, he continued the choices and married the choices. As his parent, I might possibly entertain seeing him one on one, but I would not ever see his wife. Because choices have consequences, sometimes life long, life altering consequences. And you don’t get to just pretend like they don’t especially when you have expressed zero regret.
I wish I could give you a hug. Your sister is a superstar - the rest of your family, you deserve a lot better.
Part of me really thinks that you should send your family the link to this so they can see how absolutely appalled everyone is at their behavior.
PS what exactly does he think you are going to tell his children? I mean, the truth? Hey I was in a really bad accident and almost died and while that was going on, your daddy took your mommy to abort my unborn child and then started an affair with her and got her pregnant with you and when I miraculously survived and got better and she tried to pass off the child as mine but when Auntie filled me in on how your mommy and daddy had been stabbing me in the back, I left her, so she settled for marrying your daddy so she wouldn’t be a single mom.
Have you considered low or no contact with them? I don’t know if could continue to speak to them in your circumstances.
NTA and congratulations in surviving and fighting for your life. A hell if a thing to do.
NTA. He was way in the wrong and if you don’t want to forgive him you don’t have to. It’s your choice and everybody else should keep their opinions to themselves.
Yeah honestly, forgiveness is a personal thing, not a group project. If it still hurts or feels unresolved, he's allowed to take some time or never go there at all.
I have an ongoing note I keep in my phone of advice/wisdom that shifted my perspective and this comment was instantly copied and pasted there. Thank you for that solid, validating string of words! I will be re-reading them for years to come. ♡
Brother has no business demanding forgiveness from OP. He has no business demanding anything from anyone. He made his bed, now he can go lay down in it with his cheating partner and wait for her to cheat on him. (If they cheat with you, they will cheat on you).
As for your parents, if they have the balls to ask what needs to be done for forgiveness, tell them that is too late. They had their chance to raise a decent human and that didn't work. They want everything swept under the rug so they can go on with their illusion of a "happy family". Nope. They have no right to ask that of OP. How about letting brother feel the consequences of his choices and action. He doesn't want forgiveness, he wants absolution. He is putting it back on OP to make himself feel better about his ultimate act of betrayal.
And forgiving is really for the harmed person, and his own peace of mind. It doesn’t mean that things revert to happy family, all is well, and everyone gets together for the BBQ. They did damage that cannot be undone.
Your sister is a star.
Yes she is and I'm so glad she found out otherwise I could have lived in the dark and raised Cameron's kid not realizing.
Wait.....she got pregnant with Cameron's kid right after aborting yours WHILE YOU WERE RECOVERING?! OMG, the crap she would have tried to pull had your sister not found out!
And they have THE NERVE to demand forgiveness, Cameron and your parents? Screw them, ALL of them.
Thank goodness for your sister standing up to their BS and supporting you.
Who's to say the terminated pregnancy wasn't Cameron's either?!
That’s my idea. The affair was already ongoing and she got pregnant with Cameron’s baby and tired to hide by aborting it. They don’t want to admit the affair was much, much longer than anyone knows so they are sticking with this version instead. Heck, they coulda been sleeping together for years and his accident was the thing that made them realize life is too short to keep hiding. Either version is f’d up.
Wait.. what?? I thought she got pregnant with Cameron’s kid AFTER you kicked her to the curb. This is many times worse, although the other scenario is awful also.
NTA.
You got your closure 11 years ago when you cut those two pieces of shit out of your life. Fuck him and Jessie; their kids will survive without getting answers from you too. The more I reread, the more I think "fuck Cameron for trying to shame you and then trying to guilt you into coming back into his life". He doesn't deserve kindness after he helped your cheating ex abort YOUR baby and then starting an affair with her.
Honestly, I don't care if those kids spend their lives wondering why their uncle didn't want to be in their lives. That's the price their parents have to pay for being shitty human beings. Sorry that consequences extend to the kids, but that's how life is. You don't owe Cameron or Jessie anything, nor do you owe it to the spawn born from your scumbag brother and cheating ex.
Hopefully they won't spend their lives wondering.
Hopefully someone will tell them what happened when they're adults.
So, if I read correctly at the time of your accident Jessie found out she was pregnant (your child). Cameron helped her terminate this pregnancy and then had an affair. After you refused to stay in the relationship they got back together. They married and have children. What part of this do your parents want you to forgive and why are they not furious at your a$$ of a brother. You are NTA.
You read that correctly. They want me to forgive it all.
Fuck No! That is wild to read. That’s the type of shit you do to someone you HATE not a brother or anyone you love. I would never forgive him or her. I would also keep my distance from their children and when they turn 18 and want to know why I would tell them the truth 💯
It’s time to draw a hard line with your parents, either they accept things exactly as they are, or they’re out next. They keep testing you because you haven’t made it clear there are real consequences, that ends now!
"Brother, if I ever see your kids or are in ear shot of them I will make sure to tell them I was in a coma, nearly died, and their mom had been dating me for 5 years. She found out she was pregnant, then aborted their older sibling before I even woke up, so that their dad could comfort her with his genitals. After that, she tried to apologize and be my boyfriend again after I woke up and she was forced to tell me the truth. This is why you don't have a relationship with your uncle OP. Because your mom and dad are messy, betraying liars."
Then go LC with your parents. I don’t care if Cameron is their son. He’s diabolical.
Please let us know when Cameron’s wife cheats on him. Ahh, the delight!!!
He could do it to her just as easily. It would be funny if they cheated on each other.
If they haven’t already.
PLEASE let karma bite him in the penis, it would be WONDERFUL.
I was just going to say it's only a matter of time before their relationship imploded and then he'll suddenly have a epiphany how horrible he's been. Nah, f that.
Nta they hurt you in the worst way possible at a very vulnerable time in your life they expect you to play happy families because they had kids after yours was aborted? Nope they don't like that if they answer the questions the kids have then they would look like dicks which is what they are. Yes you are happy and maybe that's cos you cut the toxic people out of your life. I would see about getting a no contact order of he keeps harassing you and your sister. Also if mom n dad can't get on board with ur no contact I would limit them too.
NTA. Your parents begged you to be more loving? Was Cameron being loving when he helped your then- girlfriend abort your baby without your knowledge? Was Cameron being loving when he decided to fuck your girlfriend behind your back while you were recovering from a TBI? Was Cameron being loving when he continued to fuck your ex-girlfriend to the point that she became pregnant with his baby after you became aware of their betrayal? Was Cameron being loving when he continued to harass you and your sister even though you’ve made it clear you want nothing to do with him?
Beg your parents to be loving to you, to understand what a disgusting thing Cameron and Jessie did to you, that they continue to do to you, and let them know that their punishment is for them to miss out on saying goodbye if the worst happened to you. Your TBI didn’t stop them from fucking behind your back so why should they even give a shit about any future health scares?
Honestly, I would no longer have this conversation with your parents. Let them know that life is short, you know that better than anyone, and you’re no longer wasting time on people who don’t deserve you and you will not be entertaining any conversation about this topic anymore. If you’re talking to them and they bring up Cameron, walk away or go home. If they bring him up on the phone, hang up. Keep doing this until your parents understand.
Camron and Jessie though they could get away with all that without consequences because they assumed the OP end up a vegetable. Bet that brother was claiming OP favorite possessions, but quickly gave them all back when he realized OP was gonna wake up.
I would argue that Cameron was, in fact, too loving... of Jessie.
NTA OP, you owe them absolutely nothing.
This THIS is what needs to be said to the parents like that. Remind them they completely betrayed you. This wasn’t a whoops, she’s not thinking straight and was worried about you, they took it FURTHER by getting rid of his baby and CONTINUING to fuck and getting together. Like they took it from basic betrayal to like…. A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL. Go scorched earth and be happy with your new partner. Get a restraining order AND tell your parents what the commenter said above. Holy shit, what a gnarly thing to go through.
The cheaters have a "pass" with the parents' minds - grand-children.
Closure will only help your brother and ex. Not you. You need no closure. Your brother is wanting to ease his mind because he knows what he did is beyond fucked up. Do not offer him or your ex anything. People like your brother and ex are a special kind of nightmare that needs to be kept away for good.
I wonder if they are having issues but are pinning it on OP. "OP never forgave us, if he did we wouldn't be fighting all of the time."
Exactly this! It haunts them even today!
Yup! They can't possibly be responsible for their actions so that means anything that goes wrong is someone else's fault. In this case OP is the scapegoat.
I think there was a similar story, might be misremembering, but they blamed the bad energy around OP not forgiving them and demanded he come to the wedding. Harassed him endlessly until he agreed. The wedding was some time after he was set to move to another country for work lol.
Another thought is someone spilled the beans to the kids so now they are pissed at their parents so they are desperate for OP to make nice so they can say "See, no hard feelings! Stop hating us for being terrible people!"
Nta, they made their choices, terminated ur baby, cheated on you, and are trying to guilt trip you into forgiveness while using their children as an excuse.
It's low, sad, and pathetic in every way. I wouldn't forgive them either.
Thankfully, you have a person who actually cares about you, like your sister.
If you dont mind me asking. How are your parents taking the whole situation in?
My parents hate the whole thing and want me to forgive him. We're not close like we once were because of that and because I refuse to attend family functions they host because they invite Cameron and Jessie and I don't wanna be around them.
Tell your parents that you have already suffered enough because of their evil son, and pressuring you to suffer more because they are unhappy is cruel and wrong.
NTA, and your parents are actually who I blame for this situation.
Your brother's behavior reeks of golden child." He had to have what was yours. He can't stand being punished or accountable.
Your parents should have smacked him upside the head when this was first happening. They should have shunned your shitty gf.
Instead they shrugged and now they have a broken family. This is their just reward.
S**t brother's mind wheels must be going into overdrive, thinking how he can get into OP's new partner's pants. Not to say the new partner would go along with that, but why should OP bring that negativity into their lives.
Guess it's time for your parents to get an ultimatum too.
Stop trying to rebuild the bridge Cameron burned between the two of you or they can jump off with him. You don't need unsupportive people like that in your life who expect you to be the "bigger person" with regards to the brother who stole your girlfriend after helping her abort your child.
When you have kids (if you do), limit contact with your parents. You know they will expose your children to your brother. Personally, I would be very low contact regardless.
Sometimes you gotta be blunt with ppl because they're NOT PICTURING WHAT HAPPENED. It's like vaguely knowing your parents have sex, but quite another story watching their sex tape - you don't really think closely about it. That's how your parents are able to get past it.
Ask your dad if he'd forgive your mom for betraying him with his brother, while he lay possibly dying. Ask him if he could ever look again at her knowing she slobbed his brother's knob, rode him 5 ways to Sunday, screamed his name and then came to the hospital like nothing happened.
Ask him if he'd ever forgive his brother for railing your mom, munching her carpet, dirty talking and spanking her ass while he was fighting for his life. My guess is no, so wtf does he think you should?
Yes, I'm petty like that, I'd make sure they'd never ask me another question without giving a graphic answer. Bring it up again and see if you can take the XXX response.
Honestly, I am with you. Sometimes, being blunt is needed to make people understand something. Especially with the "peace maker" people who tend to add salt to the injury.
Your parents suck. I'm sorry but they do. You can clearly see they are the reason Cameron is such a self entitled prick.
If my kid did this to her sister, they would be disowned. Wrong is wrong.
Your parents are the type who would be protesting Cameron's innocence if he was serial killer or rapist. Absolute garbage and you should cut them off too. I'm sorry.
Cameron and Jessie’s kids are going to be the same way. Another generation of shitty humans.
Did they ask you to invite them to your wedding?! Your parents want to act like nothing happened and are choosing Cameron’s side. If they cared about the hurt your brother caused you they would not invite both of you to the same function. I would go NC
I can't imagine how they expect this to go down? Hey kids, this is your uncle and while he was recovering from a life altering accident we terminated what potentially would have been your half sibling before we wrenched his heart out of his chest by cheating and making you...say hi?
Kids aren't stupid and are going to pick up the vibes that OP would rather crawl through miles of broken glass than be anywhere near any of them. Do they expect this to be a secret because somehow someway it's likely to get out. Just own your disgusting origin story (the parents, the poor kids have no skin in this) and move on. "Closure" is a cop out. The closure is to soothe their consciences and OP doesn't owe them forgiveness so they can save face because at the end of the day that's all they want, to play a big happy family like they didn't nuke OP's life in the most irredeemable way. The parents need to accept that he's moved on and has his wife and sister and that they're skating on thin ice still pushing this.
NTA. Hilarious that they said their children have questions & that they don't have any answers. Yes, they have answers, they just don't want to tell their children that they betrayed their uncle in such a horrible way.
Have they ever apologized? Sounds like they’re demanding forgiveness without showing any remorse
She did. He didn't.
Yet he’s the one showing up to bully you. Gross I would not forgive him with that behavior
He’s never even apologized and now he’s demanding forgiveness? Considering what your brother did I shouldn't be surprised that he hasn’t apologized, but yet I am. You’d think most people would at least have the knowledge that an apology is a pretty standard bare minimum expectation before receiving forgiveness.
screw him, screw your ex and screw your parents. you sister on the other hand is a true champ.
its probably better for you to let go of all the hate, which doesnt mean you have to interact with those pricks.
remember, the opposite of love is not hate, its indifference.
The termination of the pregnancy, was it yours or his? Its not rly clear.
The pregnancy she terminated was mine, but with Cameron's help. He took her to the clinic, etc and the affair started after that. Such a romantic way to fall in love.
She terminated your child but had his, that says a lot.
Definitely would add to the pain of everything but honestly may have saved him. I know of an eerily similar situation only the man had kids with the woman before she dipped to be with his brother. Imagine those poor kids having to explain that the whole dad/uncle and uncle/stepfather situation. At the very least OP can move on and wipe his hands of the traitors instead of being shackled to them and try to navigate his own feelings while also walking the minefield of co-parenting with them.
The parents really need to just stop trying for any kind of reconciliation before they're on the same no go list as the brother. I can't imagine telling my son to suck this kind of betrayal up even if it hadn't involved an accident or the termination. They're just as gross as OP's brother. Props to the sister though thank God there's one person in the family who has OP's back.
Wait whaaaa??? I didn't pick up on that from the post. How are you healing from that? Did you know she had plans to terminate and did you agree with it or is that why your bro went with her?
I had no idea she was pregnant. She found out after my accident when I was still unconscious. But it was a mindfuck to find out she was pregnant with my child one minute, aborted and then got pregnant with my brother's child.
I don't understand how your parents could even look at either of them again without being utterly disgusted by what they've done. I am so sorry, OP.
S**t brother is probably the golden child and nothing he does can ever be wrong.
Sadly the magical grandbabies' arrival will often cloud parents view of what is right or wrong.
Completely f those 2. Your brother's conscious is weighing heavy, and he is tired of feeling that way. But he isn't sorry. They both would f you over again if it served them. That is what their actions should be telling you. You have nothing to forgive because they have done nothing to deserve forgiveness. Did they learn a lesson? Develop a new sense of wrong vs right or even find religion. Doesn't sound like it. Your fine, your sister is a champ. Be well and enjoy life without them. You're better off. Best of luck.
Wow. Just wow. I would go to the biggest family gathering and sing like a canary. Have y'all ever heard C and J's love story? It started with killing my baby.
NTA, you chose your peace and tell your parents to stop trying for reconciliation or you may go NC wih them as well.
NTA
You already DID give them closure. You made it clear that they are dead to you. That's closure. It's just not the closure they preferred but they're really not in any position to demand anything.
He heard you were back in the hospital... well we know what he did the last time you were ill. He's sniffing around for your wife. Lol
NTA
With a brother like Cameron who needs enemies. What they did was the lowest of low.
Protect your peace and your health. You don't need them in your life.
Your sister is a real one!
NTA, What does you current wife think of the situation? How does she want you to deal with your bro and ex gf going foward?
She's willing to do whatever I'd like. She said these are my relationships (or lack of them) and it's my side so she will follow my lead and support me.
That's good, best keep your bro out of your life . Surround yourself with people who want the best for you , he clearly doesn't want the best for you. Good luck !
So happy that you found the wonderful wife that you were supposed to have. They gave you a gift by showing you who they really are, and they don’t deserve you.
It sounds like… and correct me if I’m wrong please! He helped her abort your child proceeded to have an affair with her and had one with her instead. Nah he can fuck off with that. If you want to forgive then it should be FOR YOU, so that you can move on and be happy. No one is entitled to your forgiveness, time and energy.
Yup that's basically the jist of it.
What they did was literally unforgivable. If their kids have questions, maybe they should enlighten said kids on what terrible people their parents are when they’re old enough.
Clearly, you are NOT TA.
NTA.
You owe them nothing, and their favoritism explains why two kids went no contact
NTA, but your parents are your problem not your brother. Your parents were the ones that is giving your information to him and is supporting his lies to their grandkids. They aren’t actually supporting you they are on his side. You should take a step back from them and tell them they are condoning his current harassment and they condoned his affair. Most people don’t understand what condoning means so I’ll give you the dictionary definition of the word to prove your parents are condoning; approve or sanction (something), especially with reluctance: his affair. And when they say they are staying neutral tell them staying neutral when thier favorite kid does evil you support it. And that thier behavior is why he thinks it’s ok to cheat. Be petty and look at one of them and say I expect it from the other parent but not you I thought you had morals I guess cam is the spitting image of your behavior
NTA at all, they should leave you alone. Sorry you were treated that way by two people closest to you. I'd stand my ground the same way you do.
NTA... that's messed up how he thinks closure would be good for everyone. Like yeah sure get your forgiveness and all but what about her? Does he think she'd magically become okay with him stabbing his brother in the back, sleeping with her while said brother was recovering from almost dying?! That dude needs to reevaluate his priorities because right now it seems like his dick is running the show... as in literally.
And yeah I'm curious how Cameron thinks this would all play out too. Would Jessie and the kids suddenly be like "oh wow our daddy's a changed man, we should really trust him now!"? Gurl bye, that ain't how trauma works. It takes more than some half-assed apologies to undo years of hurt.
NTA You have closure. They are not looking for a relationship, they are looking for a guilt cleansing.
NTA that’s such an unforgivable thing they did and I am all for standing your ground you don’t need them in your life. I am so glad you have your sister in your corner. He only wants back in so his consciences can be cleared. You don’t owe him anything and definitely not that
NTA. Fuck those people
Nta At this point I would tell parents that if they mention brother or cheating ex again they will also be cut off. The audacity of everyone but your sister. SMH.
NTA. They betrayed you at one of the most vulnerable points of your life, you do not owe them anything.
Be prepared: if the kids are old enough to start asking questions, they’re getting old enough to seek you out independently and old enough to hear the truth.
NTA
Interesting how Cameron’s guilt is coming out as anger towards you. He wants you to be OK with the situation, fully knowing that it never will be.
When his children are older, you can always offer to answer their questions, with the caveat that you will be truthful and not sugarcoat anything. It reminds me of the post where a guy realised after the birth of what he thought was his daughter that the girl was actually his brother’s child. He avoided his brother and ex and was involved in his other niece’s and nephew’s lives, paying for their education. When the now 18yr old girl confronted him at a family BBQ, asking why he won’t pay for her, be involved with her etc, he told her the truth and the predicted drama ensued.
As my late MIL would say - be sure your sins will find you out.
Let me get this straight you were in an accident with a TBI fighting to stay alive and recover from such a horrible thing and your girlfriend at the time and your brother went together to kill your baby and they want you to forgive them after they not only killed said baby they started an affair ending up having a baby of their own and somehow it’s your fault you won’t forgive them? No that is a hill you must die on. I would never forgive my brother for something like that or my sister Sister for that matter screw them. I love your sister for sticking by you in this.
NTA
People only want you to ‘move on’ and ‘forgive and forget’ and all that bullshit because it will make their lives easier not because it will do the injured party any good. Your brother and ex just want to ease their own guilt that obviously sits like a dark cloud over their relationship, that’s their issue - because, consequences!
I would find this unforgivable too. I’m glad you have a loyal sister who obviously has your back.
What do you mean by health scare ? Is it terminal?
No, not terminal and ended up being nothing at all. But it was concerning because of my history.
Oo thank god. Good And also You are NTA.
Your parents are also assholes in this scenario.
"FaMiLy" is not a reason to put up with horrible behavior you wouldn't put up with under any other circumstances.
And I 100% support you not wanting to give them the comfort or closure. Fuck their conscience. I hope it keeps them awake at night. :)
NTA and your brother is an absolute piece of garbage and so is his disgusting wife. Honestly your parents are pathetic also. Nobody seems to give a shit that they betrayed you in the worst possible ways. They are all awful people and don’t deserve to be a part of your life. I would cut off your parents too but that’s just me.
NTA
Parents will always try to get siblings back together but you dont need to bow to that pressure.
It's your life, your pain. No one except for you gets to decide how you deal with it.
what the fuck happened to bro code or sis code or just dont date people ur siblings have dated or friends have dated.
NTA. Your parents are all kinds of wrong. They're so concerned about their feelings and your brother's feelings, and not once have they considered yours; it's not hard to see where your brother got his attitude from. They want you to forgive and forget because it's easier for them, and because they won't have to deal with the reality that they raised a son so devoid of morality and so utterly selfish that he happily had an affair with his brother's girlfriend whilst his brother was recovering from a horrific accident. They raised a scumbag, but rather than deal with that, they want to put it on you to just forgive and get over it when we both know that if they had been in your shoes, they wouldn't be willing to do the same. They're selfish, thoughtless, and they're prioritising their shitty son over the son who was betrayed. If it were me, I'd cut them off, and at the very least, you need to avoid sharing your business with them as they will report to Cheaty Cheaterson.
As for your brother, what did he expect? He decided that being with Jessie was worth betraying you and destroying your relationship. He knew what he was doing was wrong, which is why he hid it and didn't want to tell you. Now he wants closure, which really means that he wants you to forgive him so he can pretend that what he did wasn't so terrible and that it's all okay. He wants you to absolve him of his guilt, and he doesn't deserve it. He made his choices, and so did his equal horrendous wife. He better hope he doesn't get in an accident or get sick himself, otherwise she might go hunting for a cousin or other relative to cheat with. As for his kids, he does have the answers. He could easily tell them that he and their mum hurt you and so you don't speak to him. He could easily tell them the truth, but he doesn't want to because for all lies he's told himself about how it wasn't that bad, and he and Jessie were just meant to be, and theirs is a story of true love and not utter betrayal, he knows that what he did makes him scum and it will make his kids look at him negatively.
You are better off without a pair of cheaters and their enablers in your life. I'm sure Jessie worries that the man who betrayed his own injured brother will betray her, and I'd bet your brother worries that the woman who cheated on his brother will find someone to cheat on him with. They made their dirty, cheating bed, so now they have to lie in it.
NTA Wow, she aborted your kid to get your brothers kids. That is the ultimate betrayal. They keep telling you to forgive and move on, but it sounds like they need to take their own advice instead of hassling you. They should forgive themselves and move on, instead of projecting those feelings on to you, especially since you’ve made it clear that it is unwanted.
NTA. The petty part of me says having a meeting with them and their kids and tell the kids how horrible their parents are and what they did but I am sure people here would say that it too much or whatever.
Your parents are really pathetic for pushing this family unity when your brother did this.
NTA, but a couple of missed opportunities.
When your brother finally cornered you in person, asking why no one told him about your health scare, you had any number of ways to verbally slap him with something like “sorry, bud, but I’m down to my last wife, and this one is a keeper. Considering our track record,…”
The other opportunity is basically permanent - any time he reaches out, your only response is “so, when you go down on her, does it still smell like my balls?”
Cameron has the answers to his kids questions, he just doesn’t want to tell them
"you see, i helped mommy abort my brother's kid and then i knocked her up and 9 months later we got you!"
If it wouldn't be traumatizing for the kid who is faultless, that would be my response when Alex to be an uncle
But I'm an asshole so 🤷♂️
I can only wonder if it was OPs kid….
Don't some paternity tests sometimes have a hard time telling between siblings too?
I'm guessing from the timeline of recovery, there's 0 chance the alive kid is OPs. Think Monte was saying maybe the aborted kid wasn't even OPs, there's no way to know now of course even if the dna test would work.
If I had to guess based on other stories I’ve heard that involve cheating on a disabled spouse, it probably went like this:
I think the child she aborted was his brothers all along.
Also a certified asshole here, and I think in OP’s shoes I might be petty enough to pretend to forgive just so I can tell the kids the truth and fuck over brother and ex. but tbf, easy for me to say when I’m not in the OP’s shoes lol
It's fun to think about, but most of us really wouldn't want to inflict that much trauma on a kid that's innocent in all this.
I'll admit, I would have wanted to tell bro that I want to talk to the kids alone, to answer their questions. Then tell them everything without sugar coating. But that would be seriously fucked up.
yeah the kids are the only innocents in this, they didn't ask to be born to shithead cheating parents.
if I learned this about my folks I would never respect them for the rest of my life. Fucking your nearly dead brothers girlfriend into pregnancy after aborting his baby is the newest low for an older bro. I've never heard of such insanity.
He doesn’t want to admit he’s a horrible person
🎯