So, we're doing an ADU, and looking at bathroom sinks, and about 80% of them in the 24" size category no longer have overflow holes.
Is this safe? Why are they selling them like this? It freaks me out to not have a bathroom sink without one. Am I missing something?
I have kids... I would never have any sink with out a overflow. It is a good way to have a indoor swimming pool in the basement. :P
...that started on the top floor... 😉😂
In our house... be more like started on the 3rd floor with a nice water fall feature on floor 2nd and 1st. Then when it hit the basement sump pumps it would make a fountain outside in the yard. ROFLOL They joys of living in a 200yr, 8,000sq ft queen anne victorian house. Now how do I know this? Lets just say it was one broken pipe and a heck of a clean up....
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Depending on price this could be a great deal to get the house exactly how you want it.
Many times a reno that scale is more expensive than a new build. The only reason to do this is location and permit reasons. If its an OLD house, you may not be allowed to tear it fully down, but you can renovate it until its unrecognizable. Depends on local laws and zoning.
Maybe cheaper to tear down completely and build new.
Smart valve and water sensors are worth their weight in gold.
Oof.
Okay i just googled it and Queen Anne Victorian homes are frankly breathtaking
So pool with a waterfall? Cool!
My cat went through a phase where he would turn the sinks on every day. A couple times he also mustve stepped on the drain because it was half shut and going into the overflow
Every time I read something about a cat, I’m so glad I don’t have one.
haha well he was a bengal so he was automatically trouble. My ragdoll is like the silent love machine that's always there but never in the way. Only downside is the massive amounts of fur. I think most ragdolls tend to be very chill
Test it at least once a year. You'll be surprised how often they plug up for hair, soap, toothpaste..
I have adhd. I would never own a sink without an overflow drain.
Thank you for reminding me I definitely need one when I redo the bathroom.
Thank you for reminding me I LEFT THE WATER ON
...need one ADHD?
No, I already have ADHD to spare.
Not even in the kitchen?
I always wondered why it’s not an option there. I guess because it takes so long to fill up.
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We we do have a double bowl kitchen sink where the middle divider is lower than the sides. So as long as you do not plug up both sides it works like a overflow. :D
I'm never that lucky. Block is always downstream in my house, so both fill, and turning on the disposal just pushes the water from one sink to the other through the drain Y. =(
Apparently, I have a really annoying rock under my kitchen foundation that makes the plumbing run slightly uphill part of the way. Unfortunately, I think the fix is dynamite blasting under the house, so.....
Well dynamite would fix the rock issue. But you are right may not help the house. LOL
Our kitchen sink does
Been there… kid closed the drain and left it on.. came back from dinner to water dripping from the ceiling in the garage…
One time I came home from work to let the nanny go home. I walk in on my toddler dumping his shit down the sink and mashing it through the drain with a toothbrush under running water.
Our upstairs bathroom as an overflow and my oldest still managed to run it over a few years ago. Thankfully no major damage.
Cost is the #1 reason.
It is MUCH cheaper to make a sink without the extra space for the overflow, and it is less complex plumbing, the chase for cheaper and cheaper home products had lead to stamped sinks with that are easy to mass produce, extra holes is extra quality control.
At least in my experience, it's where the drain flies nest.
No matter how many times I poured stuff down the drain, I kept having flies. Eventually I put duct tape on both the regular drain and the overflow hole and guess what? Couple days later I had like 2 dead flies on the regular drain one but like 50 or 60 dead ones on the overflow. Gross.
Yeah when you're cleaning out those sinks you gotta remember to also clean the overflow. It's something a lot of people neglect.
~ Professor Plumb 🧐👍
Where the heck are you getting drain flies from? I've never seen drain flies.
Usually the drain overflow
Right. The overflow is basically a sink within a sink or some type of channel that connects to the drain opening. That type of casting is expensive and requires extra labor and material. Also, many sinks today are about form over function so it's omitted.
aren't all products about form or function (or both)?
I think they meant form over function.
Yeah. Auto correct while multi tasking did it to me.
Sort of, yes a bowl with a hole in the bottom without an overflow is cheaper, but every manufacturer is tooled up already for the overflow so the actual variable production cost would be pennies in the difference.
More likely aesthetic trends leading to more sales.
Hi I'm a new manufacturer and I want to undercut the market...
This new manufacturer, did he buy the equipment and build a plant to compete with you, who has had the machinery paid for for a couple decades?. And like i said we're talking pennies in the difference cost per unit... What's to undercut?
I am confused why you are arguing like what I'm saying isn't happening already.
It costs one less penny to not drill the hole which makes some greedy guy richer.
It is happening. It's clearly apparent why.
You can take it up with the ones not installing overflow holes. I'm just explaining the most obvious reason, makes then more money.
While it makes them more money it has little to do with the cost of production is why. They sell for more because it's trendy, the cost difference is so tiny that it doesn't make a difference it's that they can sell for more.
No one enters an established market undercutting the cost of manufacturing by .0002%. If it were 30% less sure.
Large scale operations thrive by cutting even the tiniest margins
Remember the airline that saved millions by removing a single olive from salads
This isn't a theory it's just how the world works
No one is actually choosing to risk a flooded bathroom because it's trendy
It's trendy because a marketer figured out they could profit off it
Same story across the entire restaurant industry
Even expensive sinks sometimes have super shitty overflow setups as well. Gaskets that don't fit right and all sorts of issues.
Could we just make a sink without any holes?
No plumbing and MUCH less complex. The future looks bright!
The bigger issue for me is that they all have those new pop-up drains instead of the kind with the pull knob by the faucet. The pop-up mechanism is flimsy and gets stuck if there's any kind of gunk in the drain.
Ours has failed and been replaced twice. Realised these things were shit and put a conventional plug hole in.
Nowhere for the chain/plug to attach but I simply don't care. Yet another increasingly evident example of 'progress' that is in fact just worse.
Mine gets stuck in the in-between-click states so I have to use a screwdriver to help it complete the cycle. I think spring isn't strong enough to overcome the suction seal after you push it all the way down to actuate it. Dumbest drain plug idea ever.
Wait...you have to touch the likely dirty drain cover to activate it?
Yes. Shitty design from a consumer standpoint, great for manufacturing because way simpler.
It’s super gross
why - whats in that sink and why did you plug it
Underwear after getting an unexpected period so bloody water? Accidentally shut it while brushing teeth so water spit out? Cleaning shoes?
Just one’s off the top of my head.
The spit out came from your mouth to begin with, it won't melt your hand
The rest.... can't speak to these things. I use bathroom sinks to brush, wash hair, and shave only.
I like the pop up because every "stick" type I've ever owned stops working well. It's either too hard to move or it doesn't make it all the way up and down. Then you have to crawl under the sink and see if you can adjust what seems to be nothing more than a piece of sheet metal full of holes. In addition, it's lever mechanism inside the pipe likes to collect hair so the sink needs unclogged once a week.
It’s a conspiracy between sink manufacturers and water damage restoration companies.
Trust me, First Onsite doesn't need help making money...
Only see three inches of water, every piece of drywall in the space has to be completely replaced from floor to ceiling...
They're not scams, but pretty close. I use a restoration company for water extraction. They told me I had the replace lvp flooring because it peaked the water meter. I told them it was nearly waterproof. I went and grabbed a brand new plank from a case and same thing, peaked the meter.
Most of the time commercial dehumidifiers are enough, but they don't make much from those.
Do they not? Do you have examples? I was curious and pulled up Home Depot and all the ones I'm looking at have it...
edit: Switched to Amazon and it seems like it's mostly an issue with budget bottom dollar basins... but most of the sinks still seem to have overflows
our recently flipped house doesnt, and it is weird.
Flippers tend to be an absolute blight on everything they touch, using the absolute cheapest everything they can while also managing to raise prices.
AGREED. it'll take years to unfuck this house.
Don't even fill their nail holes on trim. Makes me so mad
Bought a house that doesn't. Sink got clogged and wife left the tap on. Caught it before the basement was completely fucked but it did get wet.
yeah, I'm getting the feeling OP is looking to keep costs down on this extra little space, like I'd expect from a flipper as well
The other common one is vessel sinks, especially glass translucent ones. The overflow presumably can detract from the "clean" look (and of course it's cheaper to manufacture without).
that would make sense I suppose. I've never particularly liked them, so maybe home depot is just trained not to show them to me. I don't think I recall seeing any of them when I originally looked
We have a vessel sink in one of our bathrooms. It has a strainer drain that can't fill the bowl--unless if the strainer is clogged.
Vessel sinks are a pain in the ass because if the local water has any minerals it will accumulate unless the bowl and faucet are wiped after each use. Never again.
My house was renovated with Ikea sinks in both the bathrooms and kitchen. They have no overflow drains, and they're all flat bottomed, which means shit will never flow to the drain hole.
I switched to a detachable sprayer faucet in the kitchen so we can at least blast food toward the kitchen drain, but in the bathrooms, toothpaste or whatever always ends up in the corners of the sink so you have to constantly wipe them clean.
The other reason I replaced the kitchen faucet is because it was this horrible thing. If you've just touched raw chicken or something, there is no way to not get raw chicken juice on the knobs, and if your hands are greasy the knobs were hard to turn. Just an awful design that seems like it was designed by someone who has never, ever used a kitchen. The sprayer faucet I replaced it with is lever-actuated and thus you can use the clean back of your hand to push the lever.
I don't know if Ikea is considered 'bottom budget dollar', but I hate all the Ikea stuff in this house and intend to replace it all, bit by bit. Even hate the ceiling light fixtures.
Pretty sure Ikea spams most of the market, but they definitely have some cheaper options. Also, I hate everything about what you just described and I'm sorry you had to deal with that 😞
We bought our house 4 years ago and none of the three bathroom sinks (nor the tub) have one. It's kinda weird… Former owner was a "contractor" and made the choices himself. Of course, he also put one of those squared sinks in the utility room, if that tells you how hard he worked… (anyone not aware, if you come in from the garage or the yard and try and clean up in a sink with corners, not curves, you end up having to wash the sink after…)
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Hmm, that could make sense. I don't think I saw many when I originally looked, but when I search them specifically I can find them. Never been a fan of them myself
Updated our bathroom a few years ago, and I couldn’t find one in the size we needed with an overflow drain. I bought the one we installed at Home Depot.
link here to a $40k sink without an overflow
Huh, no reviews. Color me shocked.
Sumpin a little fishy about this.
idk, FGDSEEEKJUFHH is a super reputable brand. I really like their $2200 piece of fabric https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Support-Posture-Corrector-Women/dp/B0DDGXZ12D
Very fishy. Like some sort of money laundering scheme, or credit card stealing scam where they purchase these items with stolen credit cards to basically pocket the money?
I searched Amazon for other items from FGDSEEEKJUFHH. Not surprisingly, all of their products seem to be extremely overpriced. Like the dish drying rack for a few hundred dollars. I bet they keep ordering more and more expensive items until the credit card gets locked.
The ole' name our company by bashing forehead into the keyboard method
If you can drop $40K on a sink you have the Butler turn off the water.
A bowl with a hole.
Amazing technology.
Prime time for the wet bandits to make a comeback.
Started with those free-standing bowls, and then everyone just said "Wait, it's not mandatory?! Screw it then."
You can still find plenty with one if it's of concern to you.
But unless your building codes have a requirement, you can save a few bucks by not having one. $20 saved per sink * 6 sinks in the house is beer money for the boys.
6 sinks per house??
3 baths, kitchen, basement, one in our bedroom vanity, one at the mini bar so
7 actually
Damn, here I am happy to have 3. Is it normal for kitchen sinks to have overflows? I dont recall seeing that before.
I dont think so, but they wasn't said
But unless your building codes have a requirement, you can save a few bucks by not having one. $20 saved per sink * 6 sinks in the house is beer money for the boys.
And then a sink overflows once and you're spending months of beer money on the clean up, let alone repairs.
Huge saves!
/s
The risk of overflow is most definitely not worth the 20 bucks saved.
Are they meant for "wet rooms" where the room is the overflow? ie there's a drain in the floor.
Good god what about tubs?? I have a memory when I was a kid of filling a tub with a suddenly spinning faucet knob and ‘rapidly’ filling tub by the time I got a neighbor to help. I did learn about water mains that summer but still.
Sinkflation
It's cheaper, lighter, and "looks" better, without the overflow hole.
Looking at the local hw stores in my country more than 90% have overflow drain holes. Ther are a few designer faucets without that.
Funny, I work with someone whose four year old flooded an upstairs bathroom. She was supposed to wash her hands, played with the stopper, forgot to turn off the water, and nobody noticed until the water was dripping downstairs.
No overflow on that sink.
If you have an IKEA in your area (or within reasonable driving distance), I had a complete gut of my bathroom done a few years ago, and had a terrible time finding a sink that was (a) not horrendously overpriced, (b) stupidly designed, and (c) that would actually fit in my (kinda small, it's a 100+yo house) bathroom.
IKEA won, hands down, in all three categories. 4 years later, it's the best bathroom sink I've ever used. And yes, it has an overflow drain hole.
The faucet and vanity are also from IKEA, and I really like those as well.
Umm I think I might have that mold 😟but no idea how to clean that.
Maybe twice a year for the main bathroom sink, I take the drain pipe out, stick a bucket underneath and use a combo of a water flush and a flexible bottle brush/pipe cleaner thing to get all the gunk out of those channels. It's really amazing how disgusting they get.
I like to pour those gel drain cleaners into the overflow and then flush after a couple minutes.
Thanks! It does smell a bit like stale, murky water so I’m going to try this gel on the drain.
If your plumbing is good, it’s generally not a bad idea to pour boiling distilled white vinegar down your drains on a ~quarterly basis.
I’ve got a giant stockpot for canning that I use to treat the kitchen and bathroom sinks and the clothes washer drain line. I try to do them all on the same day at a similar time to try to get as much hot vinegar to the basement drains as possible. It really helps soften fat deposits and remove biofilms.
When I do this, I use an old metal kettle with a long spout to flush out overflows.
Edit: I do all of the bathrooms first, then the laundry drain at about a gallon each. Then I do one whole stockpot in the kitchen sink. I also put vinegar in the dishwasher and run it on it’s clean setting
One you get those deposits softening up, you want to keep the water moving to help wash it out to the sewer main.
Thanks for the tips!
vinegar OR bleach (NEVER TOGETHER) will kill mold. Hydrogen peroxide also works for mold. The safest too. Maybe just pour a bit of oxygen bleach (it's basically hydrogen peroxide + detergents i think)
both the vinegar and the oxygen bleach need some moisture to work i believe so maybe plug it up with moist cloth while you soak it
man i should remember to do that today at home
Thank you
I really wish you didn’t mention the mold and slime. I just did a tour of our sinks and OH MY GOD.
Also weirded my wife out as she watched me walk around sticking my head upside down in each one..
What are they using?
Mmm forbidden soft-serve
Sorry to weird you out. Tools:
Tips:
Don't skip the safety glasses. Bleach in your eyes can cause serious damage.
Don't mix any soap or acid-based chemicals like CLR (calcium & lime remover)...yes, the gas bubbles are toxic and burn your nose.
Don't attack it...gentle scrubbing and rinsing with cool tap water is fine. Taking 10-15 minutes once or twice a year is fine.
Use the waiting time to wipe down your ceiling. (Oh, sorry. You've never looked at your ceiling either. How does that much hair get up there?)
I usually just swiffer the ceiling quickly when I’m grabbing the baseboards. Super quick and easy, and cuts down on the cobwebs.
the gas bubbles are toxic and burn your nose
If you’re lucky. Unlucky? The gas burns your lungs too and that lost lung capacity never returns. Scar tissue doesn’t do oxygen exchange.
I have a sudden craving for soft-serve ice cream.
I get people are saying they have kids and pets and whatever but the chance of me overflowing my bathroom sink and flooding my house is basically zero. I don’t even care about having a plug in it as I never do that. Would be totally fine with just a no overflow basin. Everybody’s needs are different. I despise double kitchen sinks. I know people where it’s a non-negotiable need.
Many sinks don’t these days. Some style sinks simply can’t. I just renovated my powder room with a glass vessel sink, no overflow.
When I was renting, we stayed at a house that had a super fancy bathtub in the main bedroom and we discovered the first time that our kid was bathed in there that they didn’t hook up the overflow drain hole to anything. My wife came running into the room telling me water was dripping from the can lights downstairs!
The owner’s solution was to put tape over the overflow hole (it was a small amount of water splashing/sloshing into it that was the problem, not too much water in the tub)
Smell. Those overflow drains grow smelly slime that you can't clean.
Here's a better question... What is code for your area?
I would not be even alittle surprised if code requires some type of overflow for bathroom sinks, and the sinks without are designed for areas/rooms with floor drains or perhaps kitchens.
seems odd that there would be a code for bathroom sinks but not kitchen sinks
Yeah, I've never seen a kitchen sink with an overflow, what's the difference?
Maybe something to do with visibility?
Nope, I was wrong.
Code (here anyways) does specify proper drainage but not actual overflow drains. HOWEVER, its considered a good idea.
My research seems to say that the reason that kitchen sinks don't have them has to do with what some have mentioned about the overflow's getting grimy, and in the case of a kitchen sink, potentially unsanitary.
Most kitchen sinks a tub will overflow to the other tub as the separator between is lower than the outside edge.
Our 30+ year old home doesn't have them. It's cultured marble. All this time I thought there was some way it would not overflow.🤣
I've always wondered why they do have them. Never in my life have I used one.
They use themselves. They’re like seatbelts. Hopefully, never needed.
Now I'm wondering why toilets don't have them.
When a sink drain is plugged by an obstruction the overflow won’t help. The overflow is if the stopper is left in and the water on.
My understanding is this is a USA trend. Overflows are required in Canadian sinks
I don’t think people are filling bathroom sinks as often as in the past so for most an overflow isn’t really necessary.
As mentioned they make a great home for flies and other insects that like moisture.
*porcelator
It's form over functionality. Manufacturers are catering to the consumer need for more 'modern' 'sleek' looking bathrooms. It is frequently used as an aesthetic selling point. They are maginally easier to fit since you dont have to connect the overflow up.
It's also easier to mould and QC a shape without an additional hole in it.
Technically retailers also make more money indirectly through replacements for water-damaged vanity units, flooring etc. As obviously overfilling your sink isnt damage covered under any kind of warranty.
Overfilling bathroom sinks isnt on peoples minds these days I guess.
You're correct in your intuition though, an overflow on your sink can potentially save you a lot of money.
New kitchen sinks are adding overflows but this is fairly new
I just got a tiny no-overflow sink myself and have been racking my brain to remember an instance when any bathroom drain in any dwelling I've lived in has ever been left on unattended or accidentally turned on unknowingly, to a point where the overflow prevented flooding. I cannot remember a single instance of this happening.
That said if it's a concern for you you could mitigate it with a water leak sensor strategically placed wherever the water first starts to spill out when overfilled.
Who fills up a bathroom sink? I don’t think I have ever in used the stopper in my bathroom sink.
Children. All the time.
Also, my wife when she's cleaning it.
The overflow typically goes down the normal drain hole, just internally rather than from above. If the trap is clogged, the overflow will usually fail at the same time the regular drain does.
The only really practical use-case for a sink overflow is when it's been intentionally blocked (that may not mean "desired" when done by kids or cats), e.g. by a stopper, towel, or cat butt. In that case, the overflow will work as intended. But in those cases, kids need a spanking, cats need to stay off the counter, and guys soaking parts in degreaser need a separate shop sink.
Don’t get one without an “overflow”. What it actually does is let air escape the pipe preventing airlock. Sinks without them drain poorly.
If your plumbing is done correctly (vent pipe off the drain line) it will drain properly. The overflow hole is solely for that purpose, overflow.
Same vein, when did ovens stop coming with a door lock?!
The lock is usually for engaging the self-clean function. Many ovens no longer come with that feature. But for when it started, I’m not exactly sure.
Well my 14 month old would like a word.
Don't people usually buy stuff specifically for baby-proofing? Like, cabinets don't have locks either (unless you live on a boat), but people buy them. Isn't there something for the oven? I've had some super old ovens, like mid-century probably, never had one with a lock.
We have clips all over our kitchen. Lol.
When I was growing up all the stoves had the metal slide bar between the oven door and range that would lock the door.
Probably about the same time every microwave started being equipped with child locks.
I noticed that in my apartment when i moved in, which had a new bathroom sink without one, and thought it was wierd. I guess it's like others have said, between cost-cutting & mildew/cleaning prevention.
Plus the rise of low flow/water-saving faucets & aerators will make it take alot longer to fill the sink that full, compared to having no aerator or standard aerators installed. (I have mixed feelings about them tbh, but saving water is good, to a useful point at least)
They are for use when the bathroom has a sealed floor with a drain that will catch any flooding. You see this style sometimes in Japan for example as the tub is also designed to overflow onto the floor where the drain is.
Most of the combo vanity and sink sets have them...
I've also been down this rabbit hole recently. Most consistent explanation I've found is "aesthetics". I'm holding out for function over form.
My 30+ year old house does not have them in the cultured marble sink/vanities. No floor drains. USA
I live in Canada in the building trade and I haven’t seen one without an over flow. But now I’m curious and I’m going to look it up.
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It's a safety feature if you leave the sink running by accident (even a small amount) and the sink is closed or clogged.
If it's clogged, the overflow usually connects to the same spot as the drain so that wouldn't really help.
if the sink is clogged, the overflow isn't going to help. it goes to the same drain.
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I don't think those people have young children.
A sink without an overflow is also a sink that will drain slowly. There's no vent that will allow water to drain properly. If you run the water, it will back up in the sink until it reaches a particular surface area/hydraulic pressure that will allow atmospheric pressure to exert enough force to push it past the trap and down the drain. Why on earth would anyone build (or buy) a sink like this?
If your plumbing is done correctly (vent pipe off the drain line) it will drain properly. The overflow hole is solely for that purpose, overflow.
How about those big, deep sinks that have a 1” long faucet, forcing you to scape your knuckles on the back of the sink while you stare at all the unused sink area under your forearms.
A lot of people just don't know you're supposed to buy a different kind of faucet for those bowl sinks. Like my parents.
Yeah, I replaced my faucet soon after I moved into my house because psychologically it is so gross scraping your hand against a sink when you're trying to clean them.
The house we bought has this tiny gooseneck faucet in the kitchen. I couldn’t figure out why it was so small. It had the pull out sprayer in the tap so I was always confused. Like someone shrunk the faucet. It was kind of a PITA to use.
Then we remodeled and I realized they bought the size for a bar sink.
Maybe cheaper and the only one they could afford at the time? 🤔
Somehow I doubt that. The cabinets and countertops were on the high end…well high end for what middle to upper middle can afford.
yeah i bet the dude just grabbed the cheapest one not realizing. something i would do tbh.
It took a while of looking for me to find the correct faucets. In fact I bought ones meant for UNDER slung sink.... return period passed, then I dry fitted them to my vessel sink and said "sonofab...." and had to buy another set that included an 8" riser (because they didn't sell the riser separately).
Poorly matched faucets and sinks are one of my biggest pet peeves. The house we're moving out of has a double basin sink, but the faucet is so short that you can only deposit water on the divider between basins. It gives me rage.
I feel for you. That is wild
Let the rage overflow, just like the short faucet does.
I'm very tempted to pull out my sink faucet and put in one of those goose neck faucets that are used in hospitals.
Goose neck? Why not just go with the whole goose?
Stop looking at me, swan!
"Shampoo is better, I go on first and clean the hair!"
Lmao I saw them use this on HGTV
I've been seeing them pop up in kitchens of YouTube chefs I watch, what a dream
10/10 have one, great for blasting dishes and bigger things that don't fit under a normal faucet
This is so prolific it's insane. I got me one of them gimmicky looking faucet extender / articulating arms. After the huge pain in the ass that is working with American plumbing features, it's pretty nifty.
I got one of those two when I moved into my current place. It is great for drinking from too, just pivot upwards and it is a water fountain
are you in my bathroom rn?
Yes. Behind your shower curtain.
That’s such a pet peeve of mine! The faucet should reach the center of the sink!
Psych unit/prison sinks are the worst for this. When I'm at work I'm constantly thinking about ways they could improve the design and still remain safe.
Those are actually designed for filling buckets and the like. They aren't intended for bathroom sinks.
You're designed for filling buckets! You're not intended for bathroom sinks!
Wow gottem!
I am good at filling buckets, but I usually use one of these. And no, they are not designed for bathroom sinks. Or any sink really.
I find those are pretty good but only if you apply an up and down motion to the handle. side to side does essentially nothing!!
Plus you splash half the water onto the back of the sink and all over the soap and counter.