tl;dr at the end
First of all, I'm not too much into the other hoyo games lore.
Also, the title is an affirmation but I'd like to discuss this crack theory of mine.
And I know Teyvat is the continent, not the planet's name
For a long time I've been realllly resistent of the theory (fact?) that the world where Teyvat is, it's somewhere in the HSR universe,, but I think that's a lost battle.
But new questions arise if you think about that, I mean, where is Teyvat? The voyager which was a scribe went to Teyvat (yeah, it was before the fake sky, but the planet was still there and it doesn't look like it is like Amphoreous, as we can see in the skirk cinematic) and was duty-bound to never interact directly with civilizations, so he must been working for someone and documented the planet. Also there's Surtalogi causing caos.
What I'm trying to say is: there's ways to know that Teyvat exists
(i'm not including the glider in the space station or that drink description about Ei and Makoto because i think those are purely easter eggs)
bla bla bla physics bla bla entropy
Briefling explaning, this is the currently most probable way our IRL universe will "die". One day the space will be so big that far away particles will never find another and new stars will never be born again, at the same time the ones that are "alive" will eventually fade away. This is the maximum stage of entropy.
AND YOU KNOW WHO ELSE WANTS TO KILL (DESTROY) THE UNIVERSE?
After 3.4 their description was updated
(is this spoiler? idk. Also i didn't finish the current story so.... yeah)
If read this book you may already know where this is going
All the volumes of this book can be found at the Imaginarium Theater
It's about the adventures of this little witch who wants her "Witch Certification".
This 7 volume book has some deep lore about Genshin universe and how it (probably) works.
But our interest here lies within the last volume which is about the returning of a senior and legendary witch, Octavia, who traveled the universe for a long time.
And she says some interesting stuff:
If we are to take Octavia words seriously, Genshin happens during the Heat Death (ik, thats not the really heat death because black holes will exist for fuck years, but you get it).
But, and correct me if i'm wrong, during the HSR story, the heat death is not yet ocurring. And since the heat death is the end, and there is nothing after the end, Genshin can only takes place after HSR.
So yeah, Nanook wins no diff
And I know Teyvat is the continent, not the planet's name
Teyvat is both, it is the name of the main continent and the planet.
Genshin has nothing to do with Honkaiverse. Firstly, they have different cosmologies, although a lot of information about the Universe has become available to us, we have not seen anything from honkai, only more things that are not related to Honkai, like a dying Universe and this is the whole Universe, not a small piece, the fact that Surtalogi travels throughout the universe terrorizing everyone and is known everyone, the fact that time travel is possible in Genshin Universe, while it is not possible in Honkai Universe, and so on. At the moment, the only thing that "connects" these games is the words of the developers and scene that they said and showed 5 years ago in another game and which they have not confirmed since then, and we already know that their words about this have no weight, since they said that all their new games will be part of the same universe, but we have zzz, which is a game that has nothing to do with Honkaiverse by the ZZZ developer words.
Genshin takes place in the past likely during the swarn
Fun theory but Otto saw Dvalin, whether it was the events of mondstadt themselves or dvalin doing the stuff we were told he was doing before, we don’t know. All we know is that Otto knew ab teyvat.
This is from hi3 v4, ie 5 years ago, from Genshin’s release I fear.
Since otto can see dvalin i would think genshin would be pretty close to hi3 and hsr in the imaginary tree/sea of quanta
(also this is just my own crack theory/hope it would be nice to see/hear surtalogi visiting hsr universe)
Nah, it's the opposite. Remember that someone actually has a Mondstadt Glider in their exhibit room.
Yeah, I think HSR happen after the heat death of the universe. A new cycle begin
Theory was over before it was created
Does sound compelling and cool, but unfortunately:
But this clearly says the planet Tayvet, not Teyvat where Genshin takes place
This is from a jazz concert hosted on the Hoyofair channel. While it's on Hoyoverse's official site, it really can't be relied on as a canon source. The glider in Herta's curio collection, while also still potentially just an easter egg, holds vastly more weight than this since it's at least in-game.
I feel like it's the exact opposite. Teyvat is about Dragons and we know in HSR there used to be a time of leviathans a long time ago.
To be really honest with you, I think that’s more probable too.
But I can’t stop thinking about how interesting the opposite is.
Like, what the fuck happened to the universe? Everything was so advanced and connected and booming with different lives and now the universe is dying, the planets left want to stay hidden or risk an invasion from beyond
This theory holds some credence, if not for the phrase that it "takes place after HSR", which would destroy that Easter Egg reference in Herta's Space Station.
While I do believe it's hinted strongly that Genshin's cosmic setting by then is at the end of the universe (given how this subreddit also had theories a long time ago about eschatological stuff), I do think that Teyvat's history also pre-dates the current timeline of HSR. The war between the HP and the Dragons is said to have occurred a long time ago, and the only closest HSR-esque explanation to this has something to do with Ouroboros.
Thus, it can be reasonable to assume that Teyvat's history spans an untold amount of time, similar to how Earth geologists studied the history of our planet and events that happened in its past.
Teyvat's history spans an untold amount of time
Yep, it's not. We don't know how long the Dragons have existed, we at least know that they haven't existed long enough for a creature that has lived 10,000 years, but we fully know that about 7,000+ years have passed since Primordial One came and captured Teyvat. And it's not a lot of time.
That's the recorded history. How about the history prior the records under the PO? That's the "untold amount of time". Even then, there's a massive knowledge gap generally between the fall of the unified civilization and the beginning stages of the Archon War.
I’m familiar with HI3 lore so correct me if I’m wrong, but I heard that himeko’s sword was in her funeral? Or it was lost. I heard both things. So why is it there in the station?
That’s why I think it’s just as you said, an Easter egg
Also, what is this “eschatological stuff” that you mentioned? Just pure curiosity
It was lost temporarily but then found later and was placed on her grave. So unless Herta is someone who steals from people's graves it's safe to say it's non-canon and just an easter egg.
Just saw nanook destroyed my pixels 😭
avatar of entropy be like
i was about to ask what the hell happened to nanook LMAO
I‘ll never write without my glasses again
but like how did herta got the wind glider as a curio in her ship then ?
Just an easter egg, not meant to be canon
The same question can be made about himeko’s sword, isn’t unreachable or completely destroyed? Idk enough about HI3, that’s only what I heard
The problem with this theory is that an intergalactic army carried out the genocide against Skirk’s people when she was little, which means the universe somehow ”died” during Skirk training with Surtalogi.
We've seen about how time passes in the abyss that Skirk could be thousands of years old in real time.
I get what you mean, but the heat death is a process, not a single event. What I meant is that the universe is entering its final years.
The HD starts when stars stop to be born
The heat death probably was still happening during the genocide.
interesting! if it indeed was a gradual process you may be onto something
Nope. Genshin has already happened in HSR. Remember the drink baal Royale in hsr? The description of the drink mentions that there is a planet tavyet with raiden sisters story. Check it out
That drink came from a hoyofair event, Jazznight S.P.A.R.K.L.E, which means it's fan content not canon to the game
Could just be an Easter Egg, there's no need to take this that seriously, it's just a nod from one game to another
Could just be a parallel tho. There's also many "earths" on the imaginary tree. Personally I don't think Tavyet is the actual Teyvat, but just a planet with a similar fate.
Dvalin spotted on Void Archive's computer before he and Welt left for the HSR world.
Yeah, I wrote about that on the weak points section. And I still don’t have a good answer for that
Teyvat is mostly in Imaginary Tree and The Traveler are important cause if I recall correctly Otto met someone/thing that dresses like Travelers but Hoyo only describe in little detail
Oh, I’m familiar with with that, do you know where I can find more about this?
I think it when he met the Will of Honaki, because I remember that it was when he was under a tree
I like the idea of connecting Genshin to the wider Hoyoverse, but I don’t know if this really fits with Star Rail’s lore. Mostly because HSR is setting up Nanook as probably the final threat for TB to face. Granted, the universe would still start to die without Nanook, but the Aeons, specifically like Qlipoth and Fuli, seem to have ways to preserve the universe even once it dies. I think that Teyvat could be an Amphoreus type world that is fully isolated from the wider universe. (Like HI3’s universe?) Cool theory though!
I think before they do that, the original Honkai need to come to PlayStation so we can play it. I played some Star Rail, so I have some idea of that universe, but the rest is what I read on this sub.
I’m not really familiar with HI3 lore, could you explain how is its universe? And isn’t it the same universe as HSR?
I don’t know a ton either, but from how I understand it, the Earth of HI3 is a world in the HSR universe that has been essentially hidden from everything else, even the Aeons themselves. I think Genshin could be similar? I’ve been meaning to play all of HI3’s story but I keep getting distracted. This whole discussion about the universes also makes me wonder if there is a canon reason why expys exist.
The "universe" in HSR and HI3 by extension is practically a multiverse in of itself. Without the Aeons powers, traveling from world to world (and in all honesty, we have no idea how big the scope of a "world" really is. It could be literal like a planet, or metaphorical like a solar system, or even a galaxy) essentially requires people to travel along the star rails forged by Akivili during his trailblazing adventure. And because of how the imaginary tree/sea of quanta works (don't think too hard about it), each "world" can be interpreted to be its own reality/universe. This is what makes it possible for two of the same person to exist within the same "universe", just separated by a different world. Himeko in HSR can exist because of this. And again, the "universe" that HSR and HI3 is shared within is a bit different from how you might understand a universe to be.
As far as we know, yeah, HI3's Earth is obscured because its never gotten visited by Akivili or any other Aeon prior. Likely due to them never being able to reach it by something obscuring it (possibly the CoF from HI3). People have been theorizing for a bit that Teyvat is similar in this regard
You're basically bang on but I'll expand a bit.
The Cocoon of Finality hides Earth from the gaze of the Aeons. 3rd directly states this in a conversation with a Memokeeper (implied to be the same one on the Astral Express because they have the same VA) that "this world was hidden so that even The Trailblaze could not find it".
We know Teyvat is similarly hidden. There's some book out there in the game that suggests the Hexenzirkel knows about the Aeons, which leads me to believe that's what Phanes is hiding Teyvat from.
As for why expies exist, that's just how the Hoyoverse is. Acheron even stated as such; that there are infinite worlds with familiar faces. It should be noted that for Genshin, it's a bit more ambiguous since very few characters are direct expies; they merely use HI3rd characters as inspiration, taking design elements and general themes. All of the Shades bear some resemblance to Kiana, but that doesn't mean they really have anything to do with her otherwise.
Which book suggests the Hexenzirkel knows about the Aeons? Is it the one about the witch going on a journey? And which part of it suggests it?
The Little Witch and the Undying Fire, part 2.
That whole passage where they talk about how things work in other worlds can also be mapped onto Aeons and Parhstriders, and suggests they know their fake sky protects Teyvat from space in some fashion. And the single biggest threat to any world is attracting the gaze of an Aeon.
It's written by Barbeloth, and there's no connection to HSR, everything she said about cosmology doesn't fit with Honkai cosmology in any way, and moreover she never mentioned any Aeons.
I always assumed Genshin is some sort of project ark from hi3, ofc that was wayy before we got more lore about the world, rn I'm confident to think that genshin bubble world is in the Sea and the abyss is its version og honkai, besides wasn't the honkai called abyss once? Can't remember where it has been ages.
Honkai is Imaginary-aligned, which is why the venusians in HI3 tried to counter it first with using the sea and then with Vita flooding the planet in the sea of quanta.
She became a god/transcendent being called Sa, after that, although all other venusians are dead and only their digital backups remained. Sa used the backup data to create a new civilization at the edge of the solar system with a fake sun and sky and everything, hiding from the cocoon of Finality/Honkai. She kept a looping mechanism in place, overseen by small Vitas who would get memory wiped after dying and reviving from the disaster ending each loop. and was pretty much never satisfied with the civilizations of each loop. Meanwhile Earth also underwent multiple loops from the cocoon of Finality.
Thanks, i completely forgot about Sa and vita
Honkai corruption was called The Abyss in Venus's civilization, which was revealed to us in Part 1.5 I believe.
As for Project Ark, I believe that may have been the intent all the way back when Genshin was still being called Honkai 4th, and I believed that up till recently. However I no longer think that's the case. They want Teyvat to be its own thing instead of directly linked to Earth.
Recent HSR events have also caused me to no longer believe Teyvat is a far future version of Amphoreous. However, I'm starting to believe they are worlds of a similar disposition; that is, both Teyvat and Amphoreous are artificial creations with a greater goal in mind. I dont know what the point of Teyvat is yet, but I imagine we will find out soon enough.
:o which hsr events are you referring to?
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Where was that said? Not trying to be rude I just forget.
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This is from hoyofair, its fan made
this isnt from a canon source but rather from a fanmade webevent if i remember correctly
Ohhh right I forgot about that! Though it could be argued to just be a reference cause it’s only really about Inazuma… Either way the connections are fascinating.
Sure but when you have entities that can control time (Astaroth) and space (Asmoday), even life (Naberius) and death (Ronova), the "heat death of the universe" seems kinda trivial. Like, ok, lets say the universe is dying, with that kind of power I could just move the entire planet across the universe and thousands of years to the past.
Don’t forget, Teyvat has it’s own “laws”, so their powers might seem omnipotent but that might only be within the confines of Teyvat
It’s similar to Amphoreus whereas Castorice has full authority over death, but only within Amphoreus
I guess it would depend on the "range of their power"
I don't really know how to word it correctly, but maybe they only have control of a smaller area (due to their power) than a higher being that could outpower them, controlling a bigger area
In HSR the range of power of the highest entities surpasses Genshin by a lot. If there was a war I don't think Teyvat has any chance
I don't play HSR but my boyfriend does and he shares lore often, or I accompany him while he does quests, and that's a conversation we had multiple times. Gods blowing up planets and galaxies like it was nothing... Teyvat is way weaker, as far as we know
Gods blowing up planets and galaxies like it was nothing.
So Surtalogi. Surtalogi terrorizes the entire universe, devours gods embodying entire cosmic civilizations, devours machines using the resources of the entire solar systems and so on, he is also a fear for all civilizations in the universe, if one Sinner who uses the aspect of "Space" from Shade of Space is so strong, then Shades must be even stronger.
If I'm not mistaken, so far I think the only case where we know about someone's powers "range" that trascends Teyvat and is really strong is Surtalogi. I'm not sure if Skirk would fit into that category
We haven't heard much of the shades in that regard, we don't know if they really are that powerful, or even if their power can be used outside Teyvat. Also all we know about Surtalogi came from others, we haven't seen Surtalogi or his powers yet
But taking that into consideration, then the only person we know is very strong (HSR level, world destroying and that kind of stuff) and can use their powers outside Teyvat is Surtalogi. I don't recall anyone else being that strong
Yes, the Shades are probably very strong. But how much? Can they use it outside Teyvat? In which range does their power apply? (I mean to the area of effect of their power)
But I find it curious because in different regions we have heard someone is very strong and all that... Like "the strongest" they know, and then you see characters from outside Teyvat and realize the huge disadvantage they have. That's what I wanted to say
This could also fit in depending on the actual lore of how “worlds” and “spaces” work. Teyvat has unique spaces like domains, HSR has dreamscapes, and the space underneath the sky seems to follow specifically the ruler god’s laws (its “own” laws) as far as we know. The Hoyoverse is huge enough that anything is possible, especially in front of us archaeologists who access most of Teyvat’s info from the viewpoint of citizens who may see Istaroth and Asmoday as godly, even though there are alien dragons their master had to spend 40 years fighting against
Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I’m still skeptical about both games converging. Teyvat would look like just another chapter in HSR
Or maybe even a videogame inside them, like that event in HI3
Idk. We know that genshin is supposed to be like what's happening in the current plotline of hsr according to the developers themselves but if you've finished the current patches story, tf does that even mean?
Nice theory but I subscribe to a different one.