I had posted this as a brief comment on the other Raiden post active right now, but I wanted to garner more attention to specifically this idea and get perspectives/info that I might not have thought/known about.
With the release of the new Teyvat Chapter Interlude Teaser, "The God's Limits" that revealed to us the designs of the Shining Shades, much is being made of the obvious motif associations between Raiden Ei and Ronova. However, what is the actual connection between the two that explains these aesthetic similarities? I suggest the idea that Ei is a worshipper, out of fear, of Ronova.
The initial basis of this is from Raiden's voice over, "More About Ei: V". The first line of this quote is: "I'm fearful because of what I witnessed five hundred years ago — her demise [Makoto] and that thing."
Raiden Shogun character voice over \"More About Ei: V\"
There has been prior debate as to what exactly Ei is referring to by "that thing," but it is clear that she had saw something terrifying while in Khaenri'ah. I suggest that we now consider the possibility that Ronova is what Ei is referring to.
We now know that Ronova appeared in Khaenri'ah in a personal capacity as she placed the curse of immortality.
Pierro gazing upon Ronova in Khaenri'ah
Ronova placing the curse of immortality
Pierro had the opportunity to witness Ronova as she placed the curse, which was depicted as a terrifying and absolute display of authority (5:08, The God's Limits).
What we also know... is of course that Ei was also in Khaenri'ah at some point during this ordeal. Which is when she witnessed "her demise" (Makoto) and "that thing" (Ronova?). It is entirely possible that, like Pierro, Ei was there to witness Ronova's terrifying display of authority. This is perhaps the imagery that instilled her with so much fear of the Heavenly Principles.
Singular bolt of lightning depicted behind Ronova
I also want to give a quick note about this bolt of lightning that is depicted descending behind Ronova before she places the curse. Somewhere I read a comment that this may represent the arrival of Ei at the scene in Khaenri'ah. I am a bit iffy on this idea. However, seeing as this is the only strike of lightning that appears in the entire scene, it may imply some deeper intention by the artists beyond just "it was stormy." If this is meant to represent Ei's arrival in Khaenri'ah, then the timing would provide further evidence that she had bore witness to Ronova's wrath.
Following the events in Khaenri'ah, we know that Ei becomes very keen on respecting the Heavenly Principles. As suggested, this is because of her fear of their authority that she witnessed via Ronova ("that thing"). As such, Ronova's picture has likely become the symbol of the Heavenly Principles / the higher powers in the mind of Ei, and more importantly, a symbol to revere. Which brings me to the Statue of the Omnipresent God, which now seems to bear a striking resemblance to Ronova.
Statue of the Omnipresent God / Kazuha Story Cutscene
Thus we should consider the possibility that the statue was actually constructed under the direction of Ei herself.
Further evidence of this is perhaps implied in Kazuha's story cutscene (pictured on the right). We see Ei's silhouette backdropped by the Statue of the Omnipresent God. You'll notice nails and ropes that appear to be propping the statue up, perhaps implying its construction under the discretion of Ei.
That is, I suggest we consider that the Statue of the Omnipresent God exists and looks as such because Raiden Ei had it constructed as an act of worship in the image of "the thing" she saw that day, Ronova.
She doesn't really know what she saw that day. What she knows is that it was a terrifying display of authority from a higher power. A power that she couldn't possibly hope to fight against; and so out of fear - she worships this icon, hoping never to evoke its wrath.
As such, all of her motif similarities (particularly in her boss attire) and the Statue of the Omnipresent God are a form of worship towards Ronova. To Ei, the image of Ronova is a symbol of the Heavenly Principles and must be revered.
I do not know of any evidence to suggest a deeper, personal connection between the two. The connection is that Ei witnessed Ronova's wrath in Khaenri'ah and now worships her out of fear of what she saw that day.
Let me know what you think or if you have any information that may add or challenge this theory.
My gripe with this theory is that Ei has no reason to refer to Ronova as "that thing" when she referred to Istaroth as "a higher power", that just feels inconsistent to me.
I disagree. My personal theory is that Ei is Ronova’s avatar. After she kills herself at the end of the Archon War she comes back to life. I think in order to come back she had to strike a deal with death. That her and Makoto were in a constant state of nattering with death. I think the statue is of both of them.
I have some nitpicks about this,it’s based on the assumption that Ei wasn’t already aquatinted with the idea of the shades, because if she already knew them and their powers, she wouldn’t fear ronova as much after seeing her in action.
Ei’s eternity defies death, seems more like the actions of someone challenging the god of death than someone afraid of them, or at least someone who doesn’t care much about the opinion of god of death, or maybe she stroke a deal with her.
If raiden is afraid of ronova, then she must be afraid of that which created ronova, the heavenly principles, but she directly defies the HP, immortality, defying erosion, artificial life, and resurrection, even her attacks kinda defy space, but you can just argue it’s a manifestation of her power, not spacial rifts.
Last but not the least, it still doesn’t look like ronova save for the wings, the hood is like rhine/naberius, and the necklace is like Istaroth, if we are likening it to the shades, or maybe, it just doesn’t have anything to do with the shades, or with a specific shade.
I mostly agree with you but my nitpick of your nitpick is that I believe that Ei had never seen the power of the shades. That she’d genuinely never seen an entire nation uprooted in seconds and that’s what traumatized her.
I also think the statue is exactly like when we first saw it. The wings are behind the figure rather than attached to it. Even in one of the animated Inazuma videos Ronova appears in Ei’s shadow. I honestly believe that Ei ended up Ronova’s avatar after she died. I think that’s how she came back.
Ei doesn't worship that statue
If she did, she wouldn't have stood over it
That too at the head of statue, which is very disrespectful
Kinda lines up with how religions viewed (and still do in a lot of cases) the "worship" of a deity.
While it’s clear that the Omnipresent God statue is connected to Ronova, something still seems off to me:
Ronnie was in Khaenri’ah to make people deathless. While we don’t know if Ei knew that was what happened, that doesn’t seem like something she’d be afraid of.
Quite the contrary, it’s not really that far off in principle from what she ended up trying to do with her original twisted version of Eternity.
This is a good point, and I would rely on the presumed accuracy of the animation itself as a response. That is, around 2:28 when Ronova is doing her thing, it seems like she is doing a lot more than just placing the curse; or perhaps placing the curse had side effects. The entire earth is getting torn up and warped as if she is personally delivering mass destruction to Khaenri'ah.
I doubt that Ei would have actually known that Ronova was placing the curse in that moment, but the scene depicted by the animation would be a terrifying sight. Presuming the animation isn't misleading us, then I would say that display of power is sufficiently fear inducing.
I suppose. I guess we don’t know how much Ei knows about the nature of Ronova’s curse and abilities to speculate.
I agree with you that Ei is definitely trying to appease Ronova, I’m just not sure if it’s out of fear and/or if she’s the “thing” she was talking about.
I’m wondering if it’s possible that Ei knew about Ronova’s abilities and that was her original endgame. Turn Inazuma into a land of stasis with no mortal ambitions in exchange for Ronova performing the Curse of Immortality on them without any of the drawbacks.
The statue can very well be of moon goddess too....those feathers are very similar to what arlechhino has who has connection to iridescent moon...the lady looks a lot like welkin moon figure...eis charged atk is also a moon...at this point there are just too many options for that statue..it may very well be just a symbol of eternity lol.
I doubt it mainly for the fact that the shades don't even like their names being said. Building a statue of one would get very bad attention drawn to you. I think the most logical conclusion is the one the game gives you multiple times. The statue is Ei herself.
Plus she doesn't like celestia.
The statue is only called The Omnipresent God which is why everyone thought it could be time or Ei herself since she’s a sky god. It being death + something else (ei) works too.
The statue is never named, though. Besides, there's other imagery all around Teyvat that invokes similarities towards the Shades. It's just enough plausible deniability that Raiden can just keep it there.
Multiple sources in the game call it "The statue of her Excellency", "The symbol of eternity" etc. It's honestly a reach to not consider it being Ei's statue.
To be fair, everyone that calls it that were subordinates and subjects of Ei herself. It could be just that that was the assumption that got spread among the populace. Ei herself doesn’t really say it’s a statue of her.
No no, I meant, it's never directly called a statue of Ronova herself. Again, plausible deniability that for everyone else, yeah, it's a Statue of Raiden. For those in the know, that being only Ei herself, then she knows what it's meant for, and that's what matters most.
Besides, it doesn't look like Ei all that much...
Ei has the same wings as the statue, as shown in the Inazuma trailer. The other dissimilarities are pretty minor, hairstyle can change, etc.
The problem is the symbolism about those wings…
The wings are where Raiden stored the taken visions… aka eyes of god.
Which is exactly what Ronova has on her wings.
It’s too much to be a coincidence; the statue has to be at least alluding to Ronova or referencing her, even if it’s not exactly her.
The visions were actually stored everywhere on the statue. Itto gets very disappointed that his vision was placed at the bottom of the statue when picking it up.
Not everywhere, but on the base and wings.
You don’t see them imbedded on the statue’s body or head or arms or legs for example. Just the base and wings.
In the final cutscene of the Inazuma AQ, you can see the visions resonating on the wings mainly.
Me personally, I think it's Ei because we haven't seen what her true form actually looks like. Zl as well as Venti (The other archon war era archons) have both shown the ability to shapeshift into their desired form.
In character, Ei would also never venerate one of the shades like this, and especially not unsolicited. (part of the celestia that she hates and has broken ties with hundreds of years ago).
If you want my crack theory, Makoto may have stricken a deal with Ronova when she did Ei's resurrection (assuming this story is true). As a result, Ei was actually reborn from Ronova much like Venti is a shard of Istaroth. If this is the case, Ei's true form looking similar to Ronova could make a lot of sense.
Right, but you have to remember that in irl history, fear is one of the reasons people worshipped gods.
So it makes sense that Ei would reference Ronova out of fear. She’s not venerating her; she’s trying to appease her.
THAT doesn't look like a lightning bolt lol
Haha, yeah the screenshot doesn't do it justice; but if you go to the video at that part - it is in fact a lightning bolt.
you're right, there was lightning bolt in the trailer.
I think the idea that she worships or respects the Heavenly Principles seems misguided, she directly cuts ties with it, abandons her Gnosis, gives the middle finger to the HP by making herself immune to Erosion(a natural law of the world imposed by the HP themselves which even Zhongli is affected by), attempted to make her nation also resist erosion and although subconsciously she stops giving visions which is another thing the HP imposed the Archons to do.
Ei might genuinely be the Archon that gives the most middle fingers to Celestia, and for a good reason, they destroyed a nation, were responsible for getting her sister killed and even if accidentally started an abyssal invasion on Teyvat in which they didn't defend the seven nations left despite knowing the Archons went to Khaenriah because they were summoned there, leaving their nations vulnerable, which lead to Inazuma being invaded by the Abyss which resulted in Kitsune Saigu dead, Mikoshi Chiyo tainted by the abyss and Inazuma almost destroyed because of Ei's absence.
Maybe she made an individual deal with Ronova, but I don't think she is fond of the Heavenly Principles as a whole, she respects their power and authority not for fear for herself, but for fear of her nation being destroyed ala Khaenriah, she also knows about "the war" and she is prepared to fight, I really think that Ei doesn't worship such entities, it just kinda makes no sense for her character, as for the statue, could genuinely be just a symbol for her mentality at the time, make her people also subconsciously know to not overstep their authority.
It's pretty much confirmed that Rhinedottir only got the heart of Naberius way after the cataclysm... thus the Abyssal invasion – which was mainly her fault — can't really be attributed to the Heavenly Principles. Other than that, your argument is solid.
Thanks for the reply, you bring up some interesting points.
Mistakenly I didn't mention it in my post, but I would agree that Ei no longer reveres the HP. This theory is a pre-Traveler explanation for Ei's hypothesized connection to Renova. The statue and the motifs on her garments obviously predate the Traveler's appearance in Inazuma.
After the events of Chapter 2 and Imperatrix Umbrosa, it would appear her demeanor towards the HP has changed from reverence to revolution. Perhaps having been persuaded by the prospect of the Traveler being capable of challenging the HP, she now seems willing to fight.
However, prior to the Traveler's arrival, I think it is somewhat hard to make a claim that Ei was not displaying reverence towards the HP. She does directly state: "Only Eternity can bring us closer to the Heavenly Principles." Even if her methods were questionable, it is hard to doubt her intent there.
That being said, I do want to make more clear the distinction between reverence out of love and out of fear. I do not think there is any indication that Ei feels positively / warmly about the HP. She does however love Inazuma and its people; and she saw what happened if you don't revere the HP. Thus she worshipped the image of the person she saw that day. Perhaps this was my mistake by using the word "worship" rather than "revere" in the title.
It's not hard to make that claim at all, I think. She's done numerous affronts to the shades' laws, and Yae herself said that Ei cut all ties with Celestia "long ago."
Considering this was right after the AQ, "long ago" likely means when she began creating her puppets, which is her first affront to Celestia.
Ei might genuinely be the Archon that gives the most middle fingers to Celestia
Well.. I mean.. *gestures broadly in the direction of Focalors and the Tsaritsa*
Tsaritsa sure, not yet, but in the future most likely, but I said what I did with Focalors in mind, I think Ei simply is defying the HP in too many ways compared to Focalors.
Tsaritsa more for sure, but Focalors did it because she had no other option, not because she personally hates them or anything.
Ei's for sure the second most, she's tried to transcend their rules multiple times without even being forced into it.
Overcoming erosion, building artificial life, resurrection(if the story is factual), you could even argue transcending space with her attacks.
I’m sure the HP will appreciate that Focalors had no hard feelings, but it was still probably the single biggest act of rebellion since maybe the first angel. Or at least Khaenriah. Don’t think whatever Ei did even registers on that scale.
We're talking about intent here aren't we? Ei has much more anti celestia sentiment than focalors. Focalors was only concerned with saving her people from the prophecy.
Well, strictly speaking we’re talking about middle fingers. Egeria and by extension Focalors gave three of those to Celestia: First, by creating humans, second by subverting fate and third by destroying a throne and handing an Authority to a Sovereign.
The middle fingers might not have been as numerous as Ei’s, but they absolutely do make up for it in size. Not sure intent is gonna matter much in the face of that transgression.
I mean, if you want to be semantic, the comment talked about # of middle fingers specifically, which Ei does have more of, even if you count Egeria. I took it to have the underlying meaning of being more anti celestia.
Although Ei has broken more rules.
It’s not a bad theory. I like how “that thing” might be Ronova. After all, Ei wasn’t as much in the know about Celestia as her sister was. But I’d be careful to now immediately jump on the statue of Ronova thing as if it’s a fact. It’s certainly the case that the wings are Ronova’s, but the rest of the statue looks nothing like her. The Eye of the Storm is still a clear connection to Istaroth and now that we’ve seen Naberius, the hood of the statue looks like hers. So the statue might actually be a combination of all shades.
I'm not entirely convinced the necklace of the statue is an eye of the storm monster. I took a moment to look at the monster model in the archives and it just doesn't look right. Also, the hood is another weak connection to Naberius. If they're going to use an obvious wing with eyes to signify Ronova, wouldn't they use something more significant to symbolize Naberius (for example, a double helix strand of DNA).
Regardless, I hope hoyo will shed some light to the omnipresent god statue. It's so intriguing to see the wings with eyes, and yet it answers nothing.
Maybe the Statue is of The Heavenly Principles. The shades are shadows of the HP, and the statue seems to have aspects of each of the shades, just as the HP would. Maybe those aspects (the hood of Naberius, the wings of Ronova, the necklace of Istaroth) all come from the HP originally. When creating the shades, then, each shade got a certain part of the HP reflected in their design.
It would be pretty unexpected and cool for the HP to be a young, androgynous boy in appearance. And it even makes sense in the statue's appearance -- there are no sign of breasts on the statue.
I would love hp to be like phainon from hsr
That's not an eye of the storm, it's just an eye. Btw in CN it doesn't even have "eye" in its name, it's just the English translation.
That’s your opinion. What does it matter if it has “eye” in the name or not? The shape is clearly an Eye of the Storm and this has been discussed and assumed for over 3 years by now.
We all know it's an eye, and the only thing that relates it to the eye of the storm is that it has "eye" in its English name, since no, it is not an eye.
It literally has a move that creates an eye of the storm, but that’s not the point. Forget about the eye part, that doesn’t matter one bit. What I’m saying is that what the statue is wearing is that enemy’s shape. It doesn’t matter what it’s called, it looks exactly like it. And that matters, because the Mondstadt hidden Istaroth quest heavily features an Eye of the Storm. That’s where the connection comes from.
What does the red moon in Ei first bossfight means?