Helldivers
How to make Spear good (and fun)
At this moment, Spear is just basically a worse recoiless rifle. Yes it has bigger damage, but this damage is not even enough to one-shot the bulk fabricators (it takes 2 shots JUST LIKE RECOILESS RIFLE), you just dont see any difference between two.
The biggest armor penetration of 7 woooow... there's literally no enemy with armor level above 6!
Not to mention you have to be at distance for rocket to lock on (which is fine) and locking itself can be tough because it wouldn't work for some democracy knows reason.
Instead of buffing its ammo capacity or damage, lets make it have a unique very useful mechanic - lock on the pinged targets.
The design is very human: target is pinged, moving the circle crosshair makes the ping marker turn green, meaning you are clear to fire, then the projectile goes up into the air, pierces the wind above until it reaches the point right above the target and goes straight downwards. Boom, dead
To make it more rewarding, the damage of the warhead can even be increased up to 5000 when it hits the pinged target, but only if it was pinged by your ally, so the user itself couldn't abuse it. With this damage increase, any elite bug is garanteed dead, same with bots (including bulk fabricators) except for factory strider, who is still 2 shot.
Note: this will work only on enemies, structures will not be caught in. Also, to debuff it a little, the bots around the jammer or any other enemy during the ion storm cannot be locked in by pinning.
Discussion
"ahh" this and "ahh" that
LOOK WHO CAN'T SAY
ASS
ass
You need to have like a full command thing
Arse
ROCK AND STONE
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE
ROCK AND STONE FOREVER!
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER
IF YOU ROCK AND STONE, YOU'RE NEVER ALONE
LAST ONE TO ROCK AND STONE PAYS FOR THE FIRST ROUND!
ROCK ! burp AND ! burp STONE ! burp
There's a problem, and it's the same as the Orbital Rail Cannon.
The Factory Strider has its cannon as an entity separate from its main health, and there's no weak point underneath. Therefore, when the cannon is destroyed, it still has 14,000 health.
Can't you tag its cannon and main body separately when you point at a factory strider?
Yes. Idk what op is talking about. You can target either the cannon or body. You just need to adjust your aim with the spear to get it to adjust its lock on
The question isn't about targeting with the Spear, but rather tagging/highlighting the cannon and body separately e.g. if your ally used the mark feature to point it out while the strider was not actually visible to you
Ah. Makes sense. My bad then!
No
warhead could go for the rear instead of the cannon (basically for the very center of the hull), since cannon is placed a bit further at the front
-small damage buff.
-allow us to lock on to small fortress turrets.
-allow us to shoot pinged targets but only if we agree with the ping (meaning pinging the ping).
Overall i like all these ideas and ive been wondering if it would work like commando, meaning laser guidance after launching it far up allowing us to target specific parts more.
Not sure about commando, considering its a single use RL making it able to lock on targets with damage increase might make it overpowered. I mean, you have 4 1100 impact damage dealing rockets, which is overall almost as much as buffed Spear can do (4400 to 5000). I do like the suggestion to agree attack the target, because it will mess with raw locking
Laser guidance has just been on my mind. I mean its balanced because you would have to actively paint the target to hit but it would be just a secondary fire mode.
Spear using bot diver here. It DOES one shot those big ol bulk fabs. Have done so many a time. Small caveat being that you gotta be close to them for a consistent lock on. For some bizarre reason unknown to democracy, arrowhead put the lock on target at the very bottom of the main door so it gets a bit touchy at range.
For the bot front as a whole, it one shots everything it can lock on to except factory striders. Those boys are a bit finicky but if you position yourself well and hit the same spot twice, its a two shot on them every time. Best spots to aim for on those big boys are the butt and sides. You can two shot it to the head as well but its annoyingly inconsistent as it doesn't actually lock onto the strider's head, which it definitely should when you have clear los on it. (plz arrowhead)
Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a buff/tweak. Just pointing out some info as someone who primarily uses the spear.
Yes, thanks for correcting. I meant being able to one shot into the hull itself, without pointing it into the big hatch's direction
Yeah, I'm not one to "um akchually" people, especially on reddit lol but there's been a lot of spear discussion lately so I wanted to chime in as its my main AT for bots.
I do like your idea tho btw! It would be cool if that was the spear's secondary fire mode as the standard lock on constantly gets obscured. Being able to have a teammate assist with a ping would be a very welcomed feature.
The other point in it's favour is that ammo is almost never wasted, so the damage output will be much more consistent than other AT weapons, that are more prone to miss occasionally. The lock-on is also nice when visibility is poor, can be used to quickly scan an area for partially concealed heavies, and with a team reload you can take down a whole wave of bot dropships without anything making it to the ground.
Exactly this. This is what helps it fill the support scout role so damn well. Seeing things through fog and deleting bot drops. Not to mention that the whole fire and forget nature lets me sling a rocket out and immediately switch back to my marksman rifle all without worrying about missing or spending the time to line up the shot at range to begin with. Fill the short range shortcomings with thermites along with the senator and you are good to go!
Honestly the tweak op suggested or a simple option to rotate through lock on nodes could be all it needs. I really think the thing that holds the spear back is the way it locks onto targets. Like it should definitely be able to lock onto other parts of a target instead of the singular lock on zone they give to these massive things. The damage it puts out is more than fine, it’s just that the damage needs to be directed a bit better.
Being able to fire on marked targets even when out of line of sight would be a good reason to use it.
I had an inspiration from the mechanic in Battlefield 4. Recon class has a binoculars and SOFLAM gadget, which when pointed at any vehicle it gets marked, allowing laser guided AT weapons like Javelin to fire at it even without line of sight, also dealing a bit larger damage
We dont even need BF 4 for inspiration. We can already do that in helldivers with the mortar turrets.
The last Destroyer upgrade in the turrets chain allows you to choose what target a turret fires at by pinging it.
Impassable wall of WHAT?
It's a great buff without making her too strong and even more fun!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
My favorite video game mechanic of all time is the Tracer Dart from Battlefield Bad Company. When you landed a dart on an enemy vehicle, allies were alerted to its location and were able to fire RPG’s that tracked to the marker.
I would LOVE to see something similar in Helldivers.
I can trust those who played Bad Company 🤝
The meme is stupid and funny but the idea behind it is seriously genius
Nah, the reason SPEAR suck because dev nerfed heavy so that EAT, RR and Quasar can one shot all heavy hitting the right place, which is easy since the "right place" is usually a big ass target. There is no benefit for the SPEAT extra damage, especially when it needs to jump through some hoop to one hit enemies and have more limited ammo. SPEAR was good when it is the only AT that can one shot the super heavy like titan and behemoth while other AT takes 2. If there is a higher difficulty where heavies are just slightly tougher to kill and change some breakpoint, SPEAR is right back on the menu. I sure as hell wouldn't take SPEAR just to two shot a factory walker while being inefficient against everything else. There are easier ways to take out a walker without commiting to a SPEAR anyway
People here just want more "buff" to the SPEAR but AT can't be realistically buff beyond already easily one shotting almost every heavies in the game like by using RR, EAT, and Quasar. This is the result of the powercreep caused by the dev's nerf to heavies under pressure from the player base's demand. What are they suppose to do? Powercreep the SPEAR further so it can efficiently destroy multiple heavies and obj from infinite range? We already have AT emplacement "gameplay" on bot, which is stupid as fuck. Nobody wants to push the game further into some dude in some hill clearing obj and enemies like
Increase its damage to 7500, so it can one shot every unit, and 2 shot factory straiders and leviathans. The Spear is a Javelin missile system, nothing should survive that firepower, with only 4 missiles, it should be the most devastating AT weapon on our disponsal.
Make it lock on the following targuets missing: Small Fortress turret, AA emplacements, Mortar emplacements, Bioprocessors, rebel broadcast towers. Make it detsroy bulk fabricators and shielded (flying and landed) warp ships with 1 missile. Also, remove Scout and Rocket straiders, and brood and alpha commanders from the list of available targuets.
The next idea is debatable but it gave the SPEAR the ultimate AT potential: increase its demolition force to 50 so it can destroy Jammer and Detector Towers with 2-3 missiles, like a more reasonable Ultimatun. Allow it to detroy also rogue scientist bases with 2 missiles. Also, buff Bots Command Bunkers so only the Spear can damage their main structure, needing 2 missiles to be destroyed (as is right now).
Also fix the targuetting on tanks, because its broken since the last update. Sometimes it lock on, other times it lock on the sky and the missile goes to Tahiti.
Edit: also, increase its current range of 300m to infinite. If your eyes can see it, the SPEAR too.
Giving the Spear the same damage and penetration as the Orbital Railcannon Strike is probably gonna mess with future boss designs though.
Also giving the Spear the ability to destroy Jammers and Detector Towers from anywhere on the map would be utterly overpowered, two-shotting Leviathans is also way too overtuned.
Why not give it a Tandem Warhead instead?
If you give the Precursor Charge 2200 damage it would be sufficient to destroy all the layered armor currently found on enemies, and 3500 damage on the main Charge, enough to destroy all the flesh/internals found on enemies. (That is, if they change the %to main of the Bile Titan Inner Flesh from 100% to 125%, and reduce the Leg Flesh Constitution HP pool from 2000 to 1500 HP)
Then the total damage of a Spear missile is kept down at 5700 damage. A Recoilless Rifle has a reserve ammo worth 16.000 damage, the Spear would then have a damage reserve of 17.100 damage instead of a whopping 22.500 damage if it were to have a single 7500 damage charge missile.
The missile itself would be able to oneshot anything anywhere, except the Leviathan that still needs to eat 3 shots.
Sounds reasonable.
For other part, my idea for structures was based on the notion of forcing the user to make a tactical choice: do i use most of my payload to blow up this structures, or save them for dropships/Heavy/Elite units?
But at the end, as you said it would be too overpower. Supply packs and ammo boxes are everywhere, so it would start the Ultimatun dilemma again, and trivialize these objetives.
Its a great idea honestly, more teamplay is allways apreciated
The only thing the spear can but RR cant is oneshot command-bunkers. It definetely needs a buff
I havent been able to do that. But its a lot easier to destroy them from safety since you can lock through smokes and the command bunker cant shoot back.
You gotta shoot the 'pillars' where the top-turrets are
It can destroy the spine of a bot dropship, which is the only reliable way of killing everything on board
Good to know. Ill try the actual effectiveness of that during my next bot defense mission
That'd be awesome
This is a brilliant idea, I would use the spear specifically for this gimmick.
marking!!!!!!
DID I HEAR A ROCK WND STONE?
Hellbomb spear.
You should also add a high explosive shot with laser lock as the command
Wouldn’t solve the problem that it doesn’t have the ability to target weakspots. A 4000 damage missile isn’t going to fare well against a Bile Titan with 6500 HP or a Factory Strider with 10000 HP.
What the Spear needs is its Tandem Warhead. This warhead is also used by the weapon it was based on, the FGM-148 Javelin.
This warhead is basically two HEAT shells strapped together: the first charge destroys the armor, the second one fires into the created open wound. This makes the Spear a lot more reliable against enemies that use layered armor like Chargers, Bile Titans, Impalers, Factory Striders and Harvesters. Illuminate shields would also be susceptible to this warhead.
Being indirect fire for my team mates would make me pick this way more often. The only thing I would ask for is a slight damage radius increase (+10%) and direct damage increase so that it for sure KILLS what it hits.
To make it more rewarding, the damage of the warhead can even be increased up to 5000 when it hits the pinged target
This is a good idea. Defintely will increase the use of Spear.
I would be great if we could designate and paint targets for the spear. That would add a whole new dimension to the weapon that is missing currently.
I like the idea
doesn't the AP value affect dmg a bit? Like doesn't matching AP makes the hit do 33% dmg less? In that way, the extra ap from the spear makes a little more sense, it always does its full dmg
Yes, durable damage. But again, even with the durable damage the difference between the RR and Spear barely exists in amount of shots you have to make
durable dmg is an entirely different mechanic from armor values. But I understand, a difference on paper but not in use, not enough to justify one over the other. I just wanted to point it out as you painted it as useless
I almost never see people using spear unless it’s for a personal order. Speaking of which, is there one today? Seen more spears than usual
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE
Why not just give it this functionality where after you launch you can guide the missile.
Idk why do that when you can use said rock to get on the strider and go to town hacking at it with a hatchet (the best weapon in the game btw)
I just want a high angle attack mode and more consistent shots even at range.
ROCK AND STYONE/??!????!??!?!???!????!?!??~!
I had a very similar idea. Instead of the standard ping, it would lock onto your ping on the radar map. Basically, you'd be a seaf artillery. It would go pretty much any distance and would give radar enhancing perks more use.
the way i can hear “thank you :)” in my head
That's a fascinating idea actually
For the love of god give the spear a tandem warhead that goes through shields
Yeah! and Nay! I'd love to see some team mechanics here. But I fear jumping of from a mere highlight ping is much too powerfull.
Instead, give the spotters a gadget to mark and ping the target. Not even breaking stealth.
Just a secondary, a laser to point where they want the rocket to hit. Then they call out. And the Spear (team?) delivers.
But, be aware, at least after the 2nd or 3rd launch they! know where the fire comes from. So, make sure to run or stand your ground.
I see a lot of potentional synergies here. Be it (stealthy) Scout, Fire Team with reload, Guard, etc...
I wish the spear worked like the javelins in Cod and BF and IRL.
Straight up a few hundred feet and a direct top down attack so I don’t need to worry about my rocket Beelining it into a tree or low building
Another idea, let us cycle through targetable enemies or parts within the green circle. Legs, body, head, engine, whatever. Beimg able to specify would take so much weakness out of the spear.
Spear is pretty good as it is, IMO. One-shots Hulks, Dropships, Gunships, and either one-or-two shots the bigger bugs. My only gripes with it are the reload times and relative scarcity of ammo - buff both, and its good IMO.
Add soflam from Battlefield one diver locks on rest can fire from afar
It also should work with WASP and Commando
Omg this is fucking genius. Just have one guy hiding in one corner of the map on "Hey-Fuck-this-guy-in-particular-please" duty.
This artwork needs to be integrated into the game, in lore a helldiver drew this and gave it to someone who got it to high command.
This is genius.
DID I HEAR A ROCK SND STONE????
***Democracy Officer Approved ***
This would make the Spear totally suckass on jungle planets. Missile flies straight up, hits the tree branch, explodes, kills you with the aoe.
Just give the Spear 1 or 2 more ammo in reserve. Problem solved.
Bump the damage and give it a thermal scope for low visibility maps, no need for gimmicks.
The Ion storm/Jammer idea fucking sucks stop taking the agency out of the player it's not fun.
Sure, let’s just give it the most boring power-creepy stat increase. There are guns that need that of course (PP) but not the Spear.
long cooldown + one use and warbond locked
This is actually a good idea to buff the spear, if it worked like this I would use it more often
It would also make stingrays wanna kill themselves cuz one teammate pings it and no matter how far it is u can lock on it, which in my opinion, is also good
In fact, you can actually do that, there is a video clip of a guy doing that
Wasting a spear on a stingray is a bad trade, so it shouldn't even effect balancing.
But watching a sting ray be chased down by a spear that's locked on is beautiful
Spear on a stingray is a terrible trade considering you can down them with medium pen assault rifles. Even the Senator will kill one if all shots connect.
The senator will kill anything in the game if all shots connect. Might be 100 of them though.
Yes but I mean specifically one Senator reload can kill one Stingray. Good trade.
This is true, though maybe it gets a little more credit cause there are still plenty of players who won't even shoot at them unless they have a launcher of some kind.
Somehow, I play with all of them lol.
Just use the wasp. Same lock on, same cross map pursuit kill, but also clears overseers
I agree. 2-3 shots from a wasp is enough and the wasp is far more advantageous against squids.