MapPorn
Map of Palestine from 1769.
Discussion
Back then it was the Bey of Damascus.
So Jorden is part of Palestine?
The original British Mandate of Palestinians include Jordan. With what is now considered, Jordan, being known as the East Bank and Isreal and Palestinian Territorys, being called the west bank. The East Bank was split off and given semi independence by the British in 1921 and was renamed to Trans (east) Jordan. The Trans bit was dropped when Jordan declared independence.
Edit: the Trans part was dropped when Jordan conquered the west bank. Not when they gained independence.
This map wasn’t during the Mandate, it’s the Ottoman province
The Trans part was also dropped because Jordan had conquered and annexed what is now the West Bank during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, as they then controlled both banks of the Jordan.
Exactly. It seems most people don’t realize the West Bank has never been a part of an independent Palestine since it was annexed by Jordan right after the 1948 war.
Well also because there has never been an independent Palestine.
Yes, the name “Palestinian” is adopted language and does not refer to any nationality.
It’s might not technically refer to a nationality, but it refers to a distinct people who are from a distinct land.
this map is from 1769
Historically, yes, both the names Palestine and Eretz Israel, as a geographical unit, mostly (very generally) referred to an area for which the Jordan River is roughly in the middle, until a bit after WW1.
Jordan took like 80% of mandatory palestine
Have you ever wondered why Palestinians called it "The West Bank"? Because like North and South Korea or North Ireland and Ireland, the Palestinian people think of the West Bank as one part of a more complete entity. This is why Jordan doesn't completely like Palestinians (this and also all the terrorism Palestinians have committed in Jordan).
Jordan is like 40%-50% Palestinian.
Plus a significant % of Jordan’s population is from the east side of the Jordanian valley and highlands and share close familial to Palestinians now in Jordan or in the West Bank.
Then you have the fact that the queen of Jordan is Palestinian and the crown prince is half Palestinian.
So I wouldn’t say Jordan doesn’t like Palestinians, more so some factions within the Jordanian government don’t like Palestinian political factions.
Or maybe, it refers to the fact that the region is the western bank of the Jordan River. Crazy I know
this refutes anything how?
I mean if that's really all it was then you're sort of admitting that the Palestinians are so disconnected from the place they are claiming that they don't even have a real name for the area. Jews call it Judea and Samaria btw.
First, the term “West Bank” originated after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war when Jordan took control of the territory and officially annexed it in 1950. The name refers to its geographical position on the western bank of the Jordan River, as opposed to Jordan’s “East Bank.” It was a Jordanian term, not a Palestinian one originally.
And Palestinians do not generally view Jordan as a “missing part” of Palestine in the way some might frame Northern Ireland with Ireland or North Korea with South Korea. The Palestinian national identity is centered on historic Palestine (what is now Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza), not Jordan.
Also despite conflicts between the Jordanian monarchy and the PLO, such as Black September, Jordanians and Palestinians are very close, they see each other as brothers, Jordan and Palestine are like the Australia and New Zealand of the Arab world lol.
It was, when it was part of Ottoman Syria.
Ah, Palaestina, the original Roman province name which name derived from the Greek and Egyption refer to the Philistine or Peleset and Hebrew Plishtim/Peleshet/ Palash
Al Quds, the Holy due to the site of 2 Jewish Temples
Sometimes it will say Bayt al-Maqdis, which is derived from the Hebrew Beit HaMikdash. The Holy Temple, ie The Jewish Temples.
The name of Nabolos or Nablus or Flavia Neapolis means new city of the emperor Flavius'.
1000+ years before was Shechem site of Joseph's tomb. "Way of the Patriarchs" trade route to Hebron. Cave of Machpelah or also known as Cave of the Patriarchs.
Well I believe that there's an alternate theory that Palestine comes from Herodotus literally translating the word Israel into Greek. Israel literally translated to "one who wrestles with God" and Palesteis in Greek means wrestler. "ine/ina" comes from a common suffix for lands or countries.
First time I'm hearing it and it's definitely false. As a Hebrew speaker Israel is probably a meaningless name but according to the Hebrew Academy there is a theory suggests that Israel means struggle with god but not physically wrestling. The confusion may come from the way Ya'akov got the name Israel (after wrestling with an angel).
And btw nowdays it is acceptable in Hebrew to write Palestine as "פלסטין" with Samekh (ס) and Tet (ט) because these are the grammatical correct letters to write with while translating from a foreign language (as it came from German in Yiddish and Spanish in Ladino) but since the Bible and sometimes today it is written as "פלשתין" with Shin (ש) and Tav (ת) as it came from the word "פולשים" meaning invaders.
So Palestine definitely came from Hebrew. Didn't know that was even doubted.
Bayt al-Maqdis, which is derived from the Hebrew Beit HaMikdash.
are you talking about the linguistics being derived? or about giving it the same name in Arabic?
But but but but it’s always been Palestine and the Palestinian people have been there since the time of dinosaurs /s an actual thing one of their leaders claimed despite ZERO archaeological or historical proof of there ever being a Palestine that existed between the Roman province (when it was actually Jewish JUDEA and the BRITISH MANDATE of palestine, and plo leaders literally publicly saying in the 60s and 70s they had completely made up a long term Palestinian identity out of people who had been Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian for propaganda reasons. But arabs are brown, so they must be natives , right?!
Bayt Al Madis is an arabic name meaning the Holy City or House
Yeah, that’s what they’re saying. Bayit al-Maqdis, the holy house, Beit HaMikdash.
Yeah Arabic and Hebrew are closely related languages so no wonder.
You both are right, many Arabic and Hebrew words mean the same. Just compare the numbers 1-10 in both languages, they are 50% the same. Ahhad = Wahhad, Eshtien = Ethnaien, and so one.
New Year in Hebrew is Rosh Hashanah, while in Arabic Ras as-Sana
I used temple and house as interchange.
Beit means house as HaMikdash The Holy place or Temple or the sanctuary.
Also translate to The Holy House
All holy because of the Jewish Temples for both faiths.
Beit means 'house' in Hebrew.
HaMikdash means 'the holy' in Hebrew.
The Arabic sounds surprisingly similar, I wonder where they got it.
Arabic and Hebrew are both from the semetic language family, I don't think one got it from the other lol.
HaMikdash means 'the temple' not 'the holy'.
Basically, the name of the Jewish Temple that was built in that exact mountain.
The root K-D-Sh means sanctified/holy, so it's not really incorrect to say that "Beit Hamikdash" means "The House that is Holy".
Languages from all over the world often have similar words. Nothing new that 2 languages use a similar sounding word specifically when both are "sematic" groups of people..
Hebrews are not the only sematic people.. Arabs are sematic as well..
Kinda weird it sounds exactly like bayt hamikdash in heberew that predate Islam and Arabic by at least a thousand years. the exact same place where the Jewish temple stood has the same name Arabized. Interesting
Arabic and Hebrew share a lot of words in common due to both being semetic languages, not entirely sure about the second word but I'm confident Bayt/Beit has always been the word for "House" in Arabic as well as Phoenician.
Hebrew , Phoenician and Aramaic predate Arabic by a thousand years
Which derives from Beit Hamikdash בית המקדש which refers to the Jewish temples that were built there.
Muslims during Mohamed time used to pray toward Jerusalem before it was later changed during his times to Qaaba.
Maqdis means holy as well.
Also Hebrew and Arabic both have the same root language, so there are similar words.
It's as if Arabs and Jews have ties to the land, common ancestors, similar languages and pray to the same god. This rivalry might be one of the most stupid in human history (not a history buff btw).
It's so insane how common misinformation in reddit is.. Al quds being derived from Hebrew is insane take
Neat. I love old maps.
The Text in the top is German and surprisingly easy to read. The orthography is also very similar to the orthography before the German orthography reform of 1996.
"CHARTE von PALAESTINA nach dem jetzigen Zustande desselben, größestentheils nach der Beschreibung des Hrn. D. Buschings im V. Theil seiner Erdbeschr. entworfen von Gottfr. Arn. Maas. 1769"
And, here's a Google translation of the original German: "Chart of Palestine as it currently stands, largely based on the description by Mr. D. Busching in Part V of his geographic description, drawn by Gottfr. Arn. Maas. 1769."
I can only imagine how cramped and achy Gottfr. Arn. Maas's hand must've been after drawing this!
Nice, I like the dusty german expressions!
I find the name of the Dead Sea here interesting.
It appears to be named dead sea in German and Turkish.
But in Arabic, while we usually call it the Dead Sea too "Al-Bahr Al-Mayit", here it says "Bahr Loth" which seems to mean the Sea of Lot. This is a rarely used name.
In Christianity, the wife of Lot was turned into a pillar of salt. This probably is the source of that name. Islam does not have the "pillar of salt" part, referring instead to the destruction of Lot's city in general.
That is interesting thank you.
Not to be rude but to clarify Lot's wife is from Bereshit ('In the beginning')/ Book of Genesis. Yes part of Christianity but from the Hebrew Bible.
“Flee for your life! Do not look behind you, nor stop anywhere in the Plain; flee to the hills, lest you be swept away.”
"Hashem rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from Hashem out of heaven annihilating those cities and the entire Plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities and the vegetation of the ground. Lot’s wife looked back, and she thereupon turned into a pillar of salt"
https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.19.17?lang=bi&aliyot=0
by christianity you are forgetting it is a jewish story but sure.
also, in hebrew its just called the salt sea
I highly doubt that whenever you mention a story or someone from the Bible you remind everyone how it's in Islam as well
The story is part of all the Abrahimic religions it’s not exclusively Jewish.
Sure, because the Abrahamic religions all started from Judaism. This is a Jewish story which Christians and the rest of the Abrahamic religions adopted later
Not quite. It’s first labeled in German as “Der Salz See” = the Salt Lake. But also says “od. das Todte Meer” = “or the Dead Sea”
Every single Reddit forum, people are forcing Israel/palestine discussion. Give it a rest already. Plenty of boards to argue about this stuff, no need to constantly AstroTurf
[deleted]
Nah. It’s astroturfed by Indonesians and Pakistanis who see it as their sort of cyber jihad. Nonstop.
Yeah it’s not like there are a lot of people in the west who seemingly care about this stuff
Anyone wondering, Jerusalem is spelled "El-Kods" here
There is also "Ieruſalem" right above it
No, that’s the district name, which means “The Temple Mount”, in reference to the ancient Jewish temple. The city name is written there in smaller font, “Ierusalem”
Ancient Jewish temple huh? How'd that get there?
King David planned it, King Solomon built it, the Babylonians destroyed it, and here we all are thousands of years later still trying to sort all that out. Turns out Christians and Muslims really didn’t like the Israelites. It’s actually a really long story.
Yep like how the Israelites didn’t like the Canaanite and took over the land…
It’s not just some ancient temple, it’s the most holy site on all of Judaism. So holy that whenever Jews pray they pray towards it no matter where in the world they are, and they’ve been doing it for the past 2,000 years even though the temple itself is gone.
Ancient Muslims, before Makkah, prayed towards Jerusalem/Al-Quds as well
After the Hebrews killed the Canaanites, they built a temple on one of theirs I'd imagine.
Yeah in Arabic its elkods
El Kods is the arabic name for Jerusalem
It's funny to me because Jerusalem predates even the Jews in the lands, yet Arabs think Al-Quds is correct.
Well, it probably comes from Hebrew in any case.
The name may have been shortened from مَـدِيـنَـة الْـقُـدْس Madīnat al-Quds, a calque of the Hebrew name for the city, Ir HaKodesh (עיר הקודש "the Holy City" or "City of the Holy Place").
Because Jerusalem was founded by the Canaanites and named after one of their gods not any god of any current religion..
Jerusalem was originally named as Urusalim in ancient Egyptian texts. It's assumed it was named after the ancient Canaanite deity Shalem, the god of Dawn.. aka "City of Shalem".
The city origins had zero to do with any modern religion, not Christians, Muslims or Jews.. It was however the largest city in the area so all 3 groups tried to claim it as their own.. The city predates them all..
Not sure why this map is calling that whole area as el-kods but "Ieruſalem" is listed on the map not far away. Have to keep in mind each map maker will spell things in their own language which is why there are often many different spellings of a city name but no idea what El-Kods is.. Perhaps it means Al-Quds which is "Holy City" I believe in Arabic.
Also keep in mind just as today, anyone with the skills can produce a map..
edit...
Look at the down votes by people who hate history. It's not even like anything I posted isn't easily available information.. lol I guess the same type of people who don't believe in Dinosaurs..
I mean, it does have unarguable significance to both Jews and Christians. Jerusalem's temple was the cultic center of Judaism and was established as such (mythically) by King Solomon, but definitively by King Josiah (who lived in 600 BC). From that point on, the only place where sacrifices could take place was at the temple in Jerusalem. As such, it developed a central place in Jewish religion (and Jews still mourn its destruction and fast on the day it was destroyed - the 9th of Av).
Due to its centrality in Judaism, it should be no surprise it became important in Christianity. Much of the gospels takes place in and around Jerusalem, including the passion narrative itself.
The exact same argument is valid for Islam, the third of the Abrahamic religions.
Eh... Both zionists and jihadis both need thrown into that river and/or sea they're always on about. Give the region back to the Canaanites (who I guess would be Assyrians now?) Anyways jeruselam was best when Babylon burned it.
Loved your post - gave it an upvote because of historical accuracy.
The Ottoman Empire did have some great cartographers.
It did, but this seems to be a German map, not an Ottoman map.
The fucking Piri Ries map keeps me up at night
Respect for drawing the same trees and hills
Why are old maps mostly always in German?
They aren't. The number of German maps is far smaller than the number of Latin maps of a similar period.
Because German was the only language at 1700s
All other languages were invented later
This makes total sense thank you for the explanation.
Qapla!
German was the primary language of science for very large parts of Europe before English surpassed it. The bourgeoisie and academia in most (modern) European countries used to have a sizeable German presence.
None of my grandparents speak a word of English but all speak fluent German. Finland here.
Since when?
It must be swiss german tho. Karte is written Charte.
Bring back Acre and Tyre!!!
Interesting that the icon (image) for Jerusalem is a church, not the dome of the rock mosque. German map, I guess.
Dome of the rock is not a mosque, it’s a shrine
Could the map makers not think of calling these areas District like 20 times lol
Thanks! I thought the name only dated back to the 19th century but it existed even longer!
Like half of Jordan included in Palestine, but people still trying to convince me that the arbitrary borders drawn by the french and british actually belonged to an ancient palestinian nation.
No, people are arguing that the lands where arbitrary borders were drawn by the British and the French (and the Dutch, Belgians, Germans, etc) belonged to their inhabitants. There were plenty of places where colonies bore entirely new names not connected to any previous name for the region, but those places still belonged to their inhabitants just as much. I can guarantee you that before colonization there was no ancient central african national identity, but the lands of the Central African Republic still belonged to its inhabitants regardless.
At the end of the day the British drew their border the way that they did, and they called one of the colonies Palestine, and so we call the people who lived there the Palestinians, and the land that they lived on was as much their homeland, and it belonged to them just as much as the homelands of any other colonized people belonged to those people.
Ok, so we agree that the current borders of Palestine were a colonial construct.
what really matters is that the people live there and have rights, correct ?
Then why does it matter if it’s 1 state or 2 ? Why they have no right to divide Palestine in 1948 but had right to divive it 30 years before ?
People really need to stop living in the past. The whole "we were here first" thing just goes in circles. Greeks were in Istanbul(Byzantium) before the Turks, and before that it was the Thracians, who even knows where they ended up. The Franks didn’t start out in France, and the English aren’t originally from England either. History’s full of migrations and takeovers. What matters now is the current reality. Focus on the present, keep the peace, and stop the fighting, on all sides.
It sounds nice in theory but is pragmatically much more difficult, especially in a continuous conflict that has never been settled (where different injustices continue to build up and people want justice for current injustices, not just historical ones before their existence).
Achieving "peace" and ending fighting requires an agreement that both sides can move forward with and see "better" than fighting. For some, an uneasy conflict is preferred to an unjust peace but what constitutes justice and is sufficient for peace changes across societies as they have different value systems, subjective experiences, etc.
What both sides and their supporters think should be required to obtain peace are widely variable and there is no "objective" answer to this.
It is very easy to say everyone just put down their weapons and stop fighting in Israel/Palestine and just accept the borders as they are now but that doesn't even answer what happens in the West Bank?
The reality is the conflict has a lot of messy problems to settle that both sides can not agree on, then you add international players into the mix that fuel the problems and getting peace in current reality is very difficult - even if you just "focus on the present".
With almost any solution to such conflicts, peace takes both sides having leadership that risk their own necks to take steps to bind to unpopular solutions in exchange (mutually both sides) for peace but that type of leadership is not getting power on either end of the conflict.
And in fact, both sides are being pushed by forces both domestically and internationally that suggest they shouldn't make any sacrafices and expect the otherside to make all concessions if peace is to be obtained and under those conditions (especially in the conflict we are talking about here), it isn't going to happen.
How many people would like to hear that Palestinian leadership likely needs to make concessions to achieve peace (no Hamas, no infinite right of return, no more bounties, whatever) given the historical context?
How many people want to hear that Israel likely needs to and should be giving up some settlements in the West Bank and ensuring that Palestine is given self-determination with a contiguous state after October 7?
Not many on either end...
Because Humans love nationalism ig, I mean by that logic why don't we just take down all of the world's borders?
The problem was not dividing it, several colonies were divided (for example the regions of British Cameroons each voted on becoming part of either Nigeria or Cameroon when British rule ended, without anyone having complained about the outcome that I know of). Had there been no Jewish colonisation during 25 years of British rule and Palestine had been made independent as two pieces, each democratically ruled by the Palestinians of that part of the country, instead of one then I doubt anyone would have cared much. People care because the partition was a tool to continue the colonization started under the British. The only reason partition was proposed was to placate those Jewish colonists who resorted to violence after the British announced they would be introducing majority rule to the colony. The extremeness of its gerrymandering (slicing the proposed state left to the Palestinians into 4 seperate pieces) shows that it had no other goal than to impose the rule of the Jewish colonists on as much of Palestine as possible, leaving large part of the Palestinian population under continued colonial rule against the democratic will of the Palestinians.
By what basis do you characterize Jewish migration to the area as colonization. They simply wished to move back to the area where they were from.
When Mexicans move to California are they trying to colonize it?
They generally aren't trying to establish a Mexican ethnostate with a perpetually gerrymandered ethnic composition, then institute a regime of ethnic supremacy and marginalise, expel and illegally exclude most of the existing inhabitants of the wrong ethnic group. Were they to do so I assure that most sane people would describe their behaviour as colonism.
A lily-white European from Brooklyn or Warsaw, who can produce no evidence that a single identifiable ancestor ever so much as set foot in West Asia is not "from" Israel-Palestine just because they claim that some of their ancestors once lived there millennia ago.
That is a ludicrous basis on which to assign superior territorial rights - superior rights that are not accepted on the same extra-territorial basis where any other ethnic group on Planet Earth is concerned. For example Joe Biden does not have the automatic right to live in Ireland simply because some of his ancestors once lived there and he is of the "right" ethnicity, while someone born in Dublin of Nigerian parents is denied that same right simply because they are of the "wrong" ethnicity.
In fact thanks to the Good Friday Agreement this same individual of Nigerian descent would have more right to claim Irish citizenship & live in Ireland than Biden or any of the so-called Irish Americans parading on St. Patrick's Day, even if said Nigerian-descended indivdual was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland - which is actually part of the UK.
It is a meaningless claim in any case. The sort of human lineage purity Zionists rely on is a myth. We now know beyond doubt that the human race is so staggeringly interrelated that everyone alive today has exactly the same set of ancestors from a far more recent point in time than most of us realise - the lower-bound estimate of the human Identical Ancestors Point is only around 3,000 BC.
Therefore EVERYBODY is descended from the Jews of Ancient Israel & Judah, along with every non-Jew who lived on Planet Earth at the time whose line survives. Every Hamas fighter has Jewish ancestors and every rabid Zionist has ancestors from the ancient people of the Arabian peninsula. If you and President Xi Jiaoping of China took a time machine back 5,000 years to ancient Jerusalem the very first ancient Jew you met would be the ancestor of both of you. The same thing would be true if you travelled to any part of the world of 3,000 BC and met anyone living there.
It is scientifically & historically absurd for anyone to claim, "we are Jews. Our "ancestral homeland is over here. You are not Jews. Your "ancestral homeland" is over there". It is racist nonsense. In a very real sense we are all one closely-related lhuman race - as far back as the time of the Israelite Kingdoms we all come from everywhere and Planet Earth is our "ancestral homeland".
Ethnic nationalism is racism, built on lies.
"Humans Are All More Closely Related Than We Commonly Think".
Not a colony. Land won fighting the Ottoman Turks in WWI.
I be they named it something akin to a UN mandate.
Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is that the people who live in those arbitrarily drawn areas have lived there for generations regardless of what it was called and its ethnic cleansing to forcibly remove them.
No shock the Sexpestiny fan is spreading lies and misinformation.
Hasan fan try not to bring up destiny challenge
Oh, so nobody is posting stuff like "It was always Palestine", when it's always ?
Stop being a smartass. You could call them Palestinians/Arabs/Hebrews whatever you guys want. The fact is that this land has been settled by these people for generations.
Which lands ? the dessert ? Was Tel Aviv (not Jaffa), but the parcel of land that became Tel Aviv in 1947 inhabited by palestinians ? why do they claim they have the right to it if they never inhabited there?
By that ludicrous rationale it would be entirely reasonable for Mexicans to enter the United States en masse against the will of the existing inhabitants, establish new settlements in the large uninhabited areas of the country and then demand that more than half of the continental United States be given to them for the establishment of an ethnostate, with the existing non- Mexican inhabitants living on its proposed territory expelled in order to artificially maintain Mexican ethnic supremacy.
If, hypothetically, the current government of the U.S. decided to open its borders and grant all Mexicans citizenship, and then, after 30 years, chose to revoke that citizenship and attempt to expel them into the sea, I would find it reasonable for those affected to demand independence to protect themselves from the oppression.
Furthermore, if there are individuals who, not because of their ethnic background but because they chose to side with the genocidal Americans, I believe it would be reasonable to relocate them for security reason, with economic compensation, as they pose an existential threat to the people residing there.
They did inhabit there. The entire area was inhabited.
My fiancé’s dad showed me the paper documents he had showing ownership for land in Haifa lol but he’s a filthy pali arab
Well the Arabs colonised it so..
Guess that means white people in the US should be round up and exterminated. After all, they colonized the continent. Or does that logic only apply if you’re using it to justify the genocide of Arabs?
This is other than the fact that the Palestinian people were Arabized…. Not ethnically cleansed.
I’m fully Lebanese and my test showed I’m 90% Levantine with the remaining 10% being Arab, Italian, Anatolian and Jewish.
Hmm that’s called attacking a straw man pal…
You just assumed my position and started arguing against it.
My argument is against the whole “blood and soil”, which would also be anti-Zionist
Why an Arab in Haifa can claim ownership in Tel Aviv ? why not claim ownership of a Place in ME instead of a recently created colonial construct ?
Belong to the modern Jewish people*, not an ancient Palestinian nation.
This map is so hard to read
But apparently it was all barren land for appropriation
I didn't care about it then...
All these old maps mentioning Palestine are always from Europe, why is this?
🤩🤩🤩
The Romans called the province “Syria Palaestina” after the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 AD in an attempt to blur the Jewish identity of the region.
Anyone arguing with such maps should make it clear that this is about historical, geographical and non-state classifications. Anything else is a distortion of history. And: Maps have always been political tools, so always treat them with skepticism
Make Palestine 1769 again
1769: Muhammad Ali Pasha born. Major escalation in The War of the Bar Confederation.
Palestine never existed /s
I see region named Hebron in the bottom? Is that where my sunshine Lebron is from??? He from the holy land holy shit.
Damn why would they make a detailed map of an empty land ?
Israel was never empty, just occupied by Greeks, Romans, Arabians and Turks for period of history until the indigenous Israelites liberated their homeland.
Look at all the pro Israeli bots being on top with every irrelevant link ups ever.
Israel*
It was palestine at that time, a region in the ottman empire (different thing than the modern definition)
Well the Ottomans sure didn’t recognize that distinction, preferring to lump the region together with Lebanon for a Province of Greater Syria.
Only reference in the Ottoman context is describing which sub-provinces the European Christians and Jews are increasingly interested in.
Palestine is the name of the geographical area, in which isreal (the country) is located. The region has been called Palestine for at least 2500 years
No.
It was called Palestine by Roman and then Arab colonists between 70 CE and 1948.
The region is the levant, and the specific part of the region in question, is once again known by its indigenous name, ארץ ישראל.
The term Palestine first appeared in the 5th century BCE when the ancient Greek historian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê" between Phoenicia and Egypt in The Histories.
-Jacobson, David (1999). "Palestine and Israel".
Meanwhile levant is of roman origin and ארץ ישראל has it's origin in the bible. The land of Israel in the bible is not the same as the map above
You can attempt revisionism as much as you like.
The land of Israel has been called by its indigenous name (ארץ ישראל) for thousands of years.
If the decolonization of Israel upsets you, you’re an antisemite
B-but the zionists said that Palestine didn't exist
A palestinian state indeed never existed
The whole concept of States is relatively new.
ok then ill say it differently, the palestinians never has autonomy on that specific land that was governed by their own representatives of any kind, be it a king, a parliament or an islamic council.
That is accurate, I just despise when people use that as a pretext to deny Palestinian people the right to self determination and self governance that they claim to afford every other group of people.
Being a group of people that have existed for centuries (or millennia) while being consistently ruled over by outside powers doesn’t justify denying a group of people self determination rights.
But they have been governing gaza on their own since 2005?
up until the morning of October 7th I was on your side.
So the actions of some justify denying millions of people rights?
If that’s your logic, Israelis should be denied self determination as well given the terrorist acts committed by Israelis supported by members of the Israeli government.
No, not to that extreme, i dont want any harm done to any palestinian. i used to belive that we can live peacefully as neighbours, but after that massacre, especially since it effected me personally, i cant anymore think of them living next to my future children.
I imagine Palestinians feel quite similar as Israeli settlers continue to terrorize people in the West Bank and steal land that doesn’t belong to them supported by a government filled with literal supporters of terrorists.
But regardless…That’s too damn bad because you HAVE to live next to them if you’re Israeli, there are over 8 million Palestinians.
Unless you’re now advocating for ethnically cleansing millions of human beings
Palestine is a Roman provincial name for the region. This map was made after the Indigenous Jewish inhabitants got ethnically cleansed using the Trail of Tears treatment, and before Herzl started the landback movement that resulted in Israel's establishment.
What a deliberate distortion of facts you are making.
There was never a country called "Palestine" before the 1980s. That is what you are distorting in order to say zionists use false history.
The geographic region has been referred to as "Palestine" and other names for 2400 years.
As for the "zionist" position: the first Zionist Congress (1897) laid out its goal which is now known as the “Basel Program”. The language that it adopted is (in the original and official German):
Der Zionismus erstrebt für das jüdische Volk die Schaffung einer öffentlich-rechtlich gesicherten Heimstätte in Palästina…
That roughly translates in English to:
“Zionism seeks to create a legally secured homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine”
"Palestine" is the accurate translation of "Palästina": The original document by the founding Zionists used the German word for Palestine. At that time, Palestine was the common geographical and unofficial term used by the Ottoman Empire and European powers to refer to the region (there was no “Palestine” province or state). It was a descriptive, secular term and there were no clear boundaries for the region.
Palestine was the name the Romans gave to the region which included parts of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan.
In 70AD Titus led the colonization campaign against Judea which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem the Second Temple.
In 135AD following the suppression of the Bar Kochva revolt, Emperor Hadrian renamed "Judea" to "Syria Palestina". This region was under Roman rule until the 7th century until the Persians succeeded in occupying it in 603AD.
The Levant only came under Arab Muslim rule between 634-638AD after they clashed with the Byzantines.
Arabs are from Arabia. Jews are from Judea. Modern day Israel is the world's most successful DEcolonization project.
#TheMoreYouKnow
If you havent lived in the land for 1300 years thats just colonization again, not decolonization lol
Also you are completely wrong, the term Palestine comes from the Ancient Greeks, and is first used in Herodotus’ Histories to refer to the region between Syria and Egypt. It also obviously doesnt make sense to refer to the region because Ancient Israel never extended further south than the Dead Sea
Well if you really want to be "smart", just check the bible, there isn't a word "palestine" in there.
In addition you can just go and see the western wall in Jerusalem which is way older than this map.
The biblical land of Israel and the modern nation state of Israel are two separate entities.
Lol yeah, biblical state of Israel includes Jordan + Lebanon, parts of Iraq, part of Syria and parts of Egypt.
The term "Palestine" is derived from "Philistia," the region inhabited by the Philistines, who are mentioned in the Old Testament as living along the southern coast of Canaan (territory, which included cities like Gaza, Ashkelon, and Ashdod). The word "Philistine" appears over 200 times in the Old Testament.
Later, Greeks and Romans adapted "Philistia" into "Palestine," using it to refer to a broader region that included much of ancient Israel and Judah.
Read also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine
Yes we all can use chatGPT, those "Philistines" are not "Palestinians" of today, they are thought to be greek settlers.
I love how you used a book written by farmers and semi-literates 3000 years ago as evidence in the comment right before this. Just amazing
why are you pretending like pro-israel people act like russians/chinese in terms of rewriting history? i dont care how big of a zionist someone is, the fact that the ottoman empire owned a territory called palestine in 1769 would not contradict anything to them.
Because it didn't as a state.
The Arabic maps are better but at least they got name right. Palestine, not Israel
My dude this map is not arabic
Get over it...
Just like Argentina and the Falklands, right?
The irony of an Argentinian saying this...
Not until Palestinians are free in their ancestral land.
Since when did arabs start to identify as Palestinian and not as Arab?
About the 1970s
They will never be, get over it.
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During that times , it was part of Ottoman empire .
Fuck being the guy that had to draw the same tiny little hill 1000 times
I imagine they were paid a lot for their work, accurate maps were very important
I don't think so, if this video is correct
https://youtu.be/yTyX_EJQOIU?feature=shared
Not had much from Map Men lately have we :(
Is it your belief that each of those maps onto a specific hill in a specific place?
It's 2025. I dream of getting a job where I draw 1000 little hills on a map.
As a qualified person unemployed for a long time currently...fuck
The machines took everything from us
did they not have stamps or other printing methods back then?
Half of people agree with you, half of people want that job more than anything.
It's actually quite a meditative state
I just imagine it’s like Fallout 76 where the mountains on the map don’t even closely line up in the real world.
What else are you going to do to pass the time in 1769?
You could probably just do it with a stamp