MapPorn
82 years ago today, the allies landed in Sicily, paving the way for the Allied invasion of mainland Italy and the eventual destruction of the Third Reich.
Source: https://youtu.be/gYfE_AW7xvI
Discussion
What does the black corner on the flags mean? I see it on some of each nations except Italy
I imagine armor or elite units (but I lean towards armor, as otherwise Italy would surely have had some elite units stationed in Sicily. Also, the diagram in the black flag looks vaguely like a tank).
Good campaign for the Allies, but a major blunder at the end by not blocking them from crossing the Messina Strait.
Even in the Art of War it is instructed that you should avoid fully surrepunding an enemy or else they will fight to the bitter end, its the cornered animal analogy.
The Germans would see that during Barbarossa, as much as the pockets of Soviet troops like Kiev ended up with droves of prisoners, it ended up delaying the German advance because often they lasted for weeks, the Soviets themselves had to fight for three months in order to force the 6th army to surrender in Stalingrad. All of that led to high casualties for the attackers as well.
The Western Powers, largely due to their democratic system, could not afford the enormous casualties in the war that the Germans and Soviets could. That is why they often allowed German forces to escape from pockets in Tunisia and Sicily, even in Falaise the Germans got away with a substantial amount of troops. Because if the Germans had nowhere to go then they would fight to the death, delaying the offensives and causing higher casualties for the Allies.
my grandfather was part of this.
What are the 5 gears on an Italian tank? 1 Forward and 4 for Reverse (old WW2 joke)
Did the invasion of Italy have any real consequences on the war effort? I have to wonder if Stalin was correct and Italy was just a sideshow.
Other than taking out the third strongest Axis member, and then keeping busy several hundred thousand German troops, both in Italy, and in the Balkans and S. France and provide bases closer to several German ?
Yes, it helped stop operation Citadel around Kursk in the East, and thus helped the Soviets there.
At the time of Operation Citadel, only 70,000 German troops were stationed in Sicily. And calling Italy the ‘third strongest Axis member’ is quite a generous description for an army that couldn’t even conquer Greece on its own
Well Italy was the third because others were even worse, hungary and romania, at least on paper.
Another interesting topic. Conquering Greece through Albania is not at all an easy feat. Plus having an army that does not really believe in conquering fighting an army protecting their homes.
Germany conquered all of Greece in just three weeks, after Italy had been completely pushed out. So, it was clearly a skill issue on Italy’s part
Germany came from another way. Bigger different front, exhausted Greeks and yes a much stronger army. I am just saying that Italy was not that weak.
Yes, and they had to bring reinforcements. Like, ask any historian, one of the primary reasons the Germans stopped pushing was that they had to get reinforcements to Sicily.
As for the rest... memes aside, the Italian army wasn't exactly nothing. For all its incompetence, it was an opponent that cost the allies lives to take out.
Yay! The only good fascists is a very, very, dead one! Bella Ciao, Bella Ciao!
As we say in Italy "L'unico fascio buono è un fascio appeso" ;)
Italian is my next language. It's very beautiful, but my current skill is lacking at best.
This started Mussolini's downfall, where a leading role was played by his son-in-law, Galeazzo Ciano, a very intriguing character (he was the one who said "victory has a hundred fathers but defeat is an orphan"). Later, Mussolini was blackmailed by Hitler in killing Ciano, which he didn't want, despite Ciano betraying him.
My grandfather was a US Army Ranger and was on the front lines during this, which was called operation Husky.
He was then one of the first troops on the beach during operation Avalanche which was the invasion of mainland Italy near Salerno where he was unfortunately shot and captured but survived the war.
Damn the Italian defense was actually a liability.
Such is the Italian military in general for WW2. The German rarely found them to be reliable partner forces.
The RM’s inability to take “Mare Nostrum” or Malta despite overwhelming land based air superiority is one of the most baffling parts of WW2.
Mind you, they tried to break the one unbreakable rule the British have - don’t touch the rock collection!
What's up whit that little peninsula to the left that managed to hold out for far longer than most of the island?
Probably an error by the makers, by 24/25 July the Italian forces in western Sicily, the 208th and 230th Coastal Divisions, stopped existing
Why the heck are there completely unrelated speeches playing in the background? its pretty weird.
It's good job. This kind of animation shows how was armys moving
Helped made possible by operation mincemeat, the story of which has been made into a film and a musical (on both west end and broadway)
Did the Red Army also play a small role in the destruction of the Third Reich?
Yes, but this is about the Italian theatre of war, if you haven't mentioned it.
75% of German casualties were at the hands of the Soviets. They did most of the work.
Only in bodies really. It was the American economy that really won the allies the war
No. They did a MASSIVE role in the destruction of the Third Reich. The majority of Axis soldiers died to the Soviets and its not even close.
Germans squeezing out small poops of reinforcements.
They ate too much cheese, early.
A few thousand Moroccan Goumiers were also part of the invasion force.
I think most of Axis soldiers in Sicily were Italians, if Germans were majority, i don't think Allies would advance like that.
Очень круто смотреть на то, как в очередной раз великая Америка побеждает всех подряд, вот только во время войны Америка начала «помогать» не в числе первых и совершенно случайно в очередной раз забыла включить Советский Союз в качестве одной из сил, которые сделали наибольший вклад
Исторические потери и участия в стражениях у советской армии были куда более масштабными, но их вновь почему-то за выдают упомянуть
Не подскажете почему?
The Soviets paved the way for the destruction of the third Reich
Now show how much the Soviets had to fight
Yeah I dont think the soviets fought in Italy brotato 😭🥀
History Subs: Hey guys, look at this niche WW2 military operation :)
Tankies: THE USSR SAVED THE WEST STALIN IS A MILITARY GENIUS AND THE T-34 IS BRILLIANT
False, or imprecise to say the least.
The Allies were still stuck in Italy's defenses, below the Po river, when Berlin was taken from the East and from the West. Almost 2 years after the landing in Sicily...
The Americans and British was minor league compared to what was happening on the Eastern front during WW2.
About half of those British flags were Canadian btw. They were under British command though. I'm not sure of the actual numbers but I did find the casualty numbers. About twice as many Canadians were both killed and wounded than Brits.
And ANZACs as well.
nope! There were no ANZAC troops in the Cicilian campaign. mainland Italy perhaps?
Yes, perhaps you're right.