I tried looking this question up, but it's hard for me to word it in one sentence.
I'm seeking some perspective. Even when I was young, I've had a feeling that I would want to adopt. Now as an adult I can't see myself having biological kids, even though I'm probably healthy enough to do so if I wanted to. In fact the idea of having my own genetic kids feels off-putting to me, like it would be wrong in some way. I tend to imagine myself dating single parents, or doing foster care, both of which have some problems that I would need to prepare myself for.
However a lot of people I've met in person and online seem to feel like there's something wrong with them if they can't have their own biological kids. They might consider adoption or dating people with kids, but they usually want it with very narrow restraints, like wanting to adopt infants in specific, which is asking a lot for the current system in my country. Looking from the outside in on their perspective makes me wonder if this is more than just phycological for most people.
I feel like adopting a kid would still satisfy that want for a lineage, why wouldn't it? Other than how one raises their children, why would it matter too much what one's kid is like, or the age they're adopted? People don't usually get to choose if their biological children are healthy, male or female, or whom they look most like, and can barely choose their kids's problems, so why do they seem to worry so much if a child is genetic?
I'll admit, maybe my views aren't as taboo as it seems. Maybe opposing opinions on this stick out to me more because I find them confusing. I don't know.
However I do wonder if the need for one's children to be genetically theirs is genetic or physical and not as psychological or cultural. Lions will kill lion cubs that aren't theirs, so maybe there's more to human's desire for genetic kids than just our views. What do you think?
Some people worry they won’t love “someone else’s” kid as much as their own. For more people that we’d like to admit, that is probably true. People are not universally good.
Also, adopted kids come with trauma. Adoption is traumatic itself and often the reason they can’t stay with their biological family is traumatic. A lot of things that could contribute to the biological parents not being stable enough to keep their child are genetic. We don’t fully know how much is nature vs nurture but my understanding is that a lot more is up to nature than we would like to think.
Plus I think people have unreasonable expectations that their biological child will be just like them.
And newborns are wonderful. To adopt an older kid means missing out on all those experiences.
I’ve worked in the US family court system for years and I volunteer with an organization to support post adoptive families. People underestimate the trauma.
Sometimes you have a baby who is “only” born drug exposed and they’re in a nurturing home from birth. Sometimes you have the youngest child of a multi-child family who didn’t personally have to live through all the abuse before rights were terminated.
But the vast majority of kids whose biological parents have their rights terminated have been through extreme circumstances. My friend got her daughter when she was 20 months old and she has CPTSD. Which is not to say that they aren’t great kids or that they don’t deserve forever families, but people need to go into it with their eyes open. Not all parents are cut out for it and these kids don’t need another rejection in their lives.
You also have to understand that the goal of the foster care system is to reunite families. It’s not a baby store. If you go in with the intention of wanting to adopt, you might have a child with you for months and then you need to be supportive of them going back to their family. Another friend was fostering two unrelated toddlers about 3 months apart. Everyone called them twins. One child had their bio family’s rights terminated and they adopted her. The other child was sent home to the bio parents and was murdered. Not everyone is cut out to be a foster parent.
Yeah. My foster brother was adopted out to a couple who couldn't have bio kids. (And then went on to have 4 right after, lol) But of course, he was born to a drug addict mom. Just that gives them a ton of issues mentally, learning disabilities, and behavior issues. But he had Reactive attachment disorder diagnosed as a teen/young adult. He was traumatized first by being removed from his birth mom at 9 months. Then again traumatized when he left our family at 18 months. My mom was his mom. So he was ripped out of his home, safety, and security, away from his mama, not once, but twice. Obviously he was not "safe" with his drug addict birth mom. But a 9 month old doesn't know that. And my mom said she did love him and slept with him every night. But these caused a lot of trauma.
He has been in and out of jail and a late teen dad. So... yeah, not doing great. I haven't had an update for years. But he was definitely in jail for quite a few years
We had a few of those kids who grew into troubles adults. One of them had their dad kill himself right in front of them. How do you ever get over that? Both of the kids wound up in prison and remain there to this day. It’s really sad.
Allll of this. I grew up with an adopted brother and dozens and dozens of foster children in my home. My adopted brother cannot tie his own shoes at 35 because his mother did a ton of drugs and drank heavily. It is OKAY to not want to adopt a child. (And sure, you could have a child with disabilities too, but the odds are a lot less when you are taking drugs and alcohol during pregnancy). The trauma that comes with foster care can be immense and not everyone is equipped to deal with it. You cannot just love some of these kids enough to fix it. People who think you can have not had enough experience with them to know. And yes, circumstances for being in foster care are all different, but the kids who are available for adoption have been through trauma one way or another. It is OKAY to not want to adopt or foster. It doesn’t make anyone a bad person to not want to take on that role.
Yes I watched my friends go through this. She wanted to be a mom more than ANYTHING and after a long struggle with infertility, and IVF and adoption being financially out of the question, they decided to foster to adopt. They had a foster infant and about a year in she went back to her family. They were beyond heartbroken. Then they fostered two more little girls. They had to go through a massive, drawn out, emotionally exhausting legal battle with one of the girls with the (horrible) family trying to get her back. It is certainly not for the faint of heart, and with mom’s determination and her spouse’s background in social work, they eventually had a happy ending and both girls are now officially adopted!
All of this. I know a wonderful couple who’ve adopted twice and both times it’s been fraught with issues. One of their kids was adopted at an older age which brought problems and one was adopted from a few months but had extensive family history issues that brought its own problems. Not to mention the extensive monitoring of the couple in the lead up to the adoption.
I think a lot of people imagine adoption as far cosier than it actually is. It’s still a wonderful thing and as I say they’ve went through it twice so it doesn’t need to prohibitive, but it’s not the simple solution
You make a good point about how most adopted kids have varying degrees of trauma that can be extremely challenging for their adopted parents and siblings to deal with. I know several people that adopted infants from China and they’ve dealt with reactive attachment disorder and other issues. I would personally be very overwhelmed as a parent in those situations. Having biological children is hard enough without throwing those added challenges into the mix. I really admire those folks who are willing to deal with that, though.
Kids are kind of a mixed bag however they become yours. My oldest was adopted through child welfare and had already experienced a lot of trauma by the time she came to live with us. She has health challenges and autoimmune disorders that are a combo of genetics and exacerbated by trauma. My biological kid is autistic, which has its own challenges.
I've never understood the idea that someone would love their bio kids more. To me, they are both my kids and I love them both. I sometimes forget I didn't birth them both.
I can fully admit I wouldn't love an adopted kid like I'd love my own. Also why I could never be a step parent. I'd favor my own kids
Unfortunate that you're getting down voted for admitting that you understand yourself so well. By acknowledging this, you can prevent heartache down the road from trying anyway and failing, and just find someone lacking such attachments to be with. Sometimes people think you're less for not being as open as possible, and that admitting such struggles makes you a bad person, but that's... inaccurate. It shows an understanding of who you are and how your mind works, and acknowledging that things would be worse if you pushed further. Everyone has different capabilities and limits, and for some people, it's how they distribute love. I'm glad you can acknowledge this about yourself, even if others think it's shameful.
at least you are honest about it. Some people would like to convince themselves that they are/would be honest and fair towards their step/adopted kids, when it just wouldnt be true.
I think it’s good that you know that about yourself. Not everyone is meant to raise other people’s kids. My mother was a saint when it came to raising other people’s kids. In her foster care career, I’m sure she had over a hundred kids. Some stayed for a year, some a few days. But she always treated them like us. They went on vacations (to the detriment of our vacations as many were troubled and would cause pretty chaotic issues). She was meant to do that career. But I am not. And I know that about myself.
That's true of most ppl. It's better to have the self awareness to know it and act accordingly than to think some kind of magic will happen when someone hands you a baby. I'm adopted. It never happened.
People are afraid if they adopt kids, the adopted kids can say "you aren't my biological parents" or one day want to return back to their biological family in the future.
I fully supported my adopted kid's renewed relationship with her biodad. Her biomom overdosed before any relationship was able to form. I'm still here, and her biodad is a pickled drunk who ignores her most of the time. I'm not adopted, but I met my biodad when I was an adult. Same deal with mine.
They're not necessarily wrong about that- it does happen. More common for adoptees to have some level of relationship with both though.
This is a very edge case example, but… you are less likely to have your kids taken from you if they are biologically yours. If you foster or adopt, and someone else has a biological tie to them (birth parents, grandparents, etc) and they decide they want the kid BACK… some courts may side with their genetic relatives over those who have actually bonded with the kid, which can be heartbreaking for all involved.
I don’t even think this is an edge case example, I think this is a very common reality
That's usually the goal with foster care, for the child to return to their parent(s).
I am a mum to a toddler who is biologically mine and my husband's. I adore him and it's funny watching him display various quirks we both have. But I would've never gone through pregnancy and childbirth if it was only up to me. I desperately wanted to be a mum and I couldn't understand why anyone would need to make more kids when there's already plenty in care who need loving homes. My husband wanted to "pass on his genes". I'm not sure why, his genes are shit. Eye problems, back problems, skin problems, allergy to every type of pollen in existence. But it was the only way I was going to be a mum so I did it. 🤷♀️ I plan to foster once my son is older.
I'm not sure why, his genes are shit.
I am sorry but that made me crack up. Why would someone want to pass off genes like that, as if they are pure gold?
Wanting bio-children is understandable, but lets not kid ourselves- Most people dont have good enough genes to where it could be one of their primary arguments for having bio-children.
I dont think I would make bio-children unless my partner had amazing genetics to balance out my worse ones.
Yeah that's the sensible thing to do. I grew up in the horse world and only the horses who have great physical characteristics and nice temperament went to stud, my husband is the equivalent of a 3 legged balding donkey and I'm certainly no prize mare. My poor kid 😅
I cannot stop laughing at how you write about this. The implications for your kid are not funny, but your blunt writing style is hilarious.
You have great comedy genes, I'm cracking up reading this
Honestly, it's the autism. I state facts and people laugh. But unintentionally making people laugh isn't the worst thing in the world so I'll take it... And my son can take the autism gene 😬
Lol, it's funny but don't let your son know your opinion about his genes in the future. XD
Keep in mind that this can very easily become an argument for eugenics.
people who have genuine genetic issues that are almost guaranteed to get passed to their children still go ahead and have bio kids, so it is no surprise people with just so/so genetics (IE most people) want to have their own genes passed down.
Just wait to foster until he is way older. I have my own kids and plan to foster teen mums, but not until my own kids are out of the house. My parents did foster care. One of us was threatened with a knife at 9. The other was molested at 11.
Thank you for your answer. I feel a little bit less alone with my opinions.
The genetic thing gets me, too. My husband was the same and now I'm carrying his child, but it’s not like either of us have quality genetics. My mom has a dumb misshapen pinky toe she passed on to me. I’ll probably give it to my child. It’s not something that should disqualify me from having my own child… but when my birds have bad toes, they get culled 😅
The non-psychological reason is money. In Australia , where I live, adoption is incredibly expensive, hard and not a guarantee. If you are able to conceive naturally it's free.
Adopted adult here. 🙋🏻♀️ The first successful studies proving that humans have instincts showed that it's literally hardwired into us to take better care of our biological infants. Infants can recognize their biological mothers by the sound of their voice and the scent of their milk, and respond better to them. Mothers can recognize their biological infants by their scent and bond better with them. So to answer your question, no it's not just psychology.
Adoption IS trauma. It's not that MOST adopted children are traumatized, ALL adopted children are traumatized. And no, your love is not going to magically cure their trauma. It doesn't work like that. Their grief is no less than that of orphans, and often worse.
Lacking the intense biological bonding instincts and burdened with the intense trauma, adopted children are approximately 20 times harder to parent than biological children. It often doesn't work out, which means that biological children are 20 times more likely to be abused -- physically, mentally, emotionally, AND sexually -- than biological children by their parents and guardians.
Between that fact AND their intense individual trauma, which they as children usually can't articulate, they are 20 times more likely to act out, do drugs and/or alcohol, get in trouble with the cops, run away from home, and/or try to get pregnant.
Oh, and we're ALL basically suicidal between the ages of 10 - 20, and we're 20 times more likely to successfully kill ourselves.
For decades these facts were kept hidden from potential adoptive parents, who were given false ideas about how "easy" adoptees were to care for, and who then lashed out at their adopted children for being far more difficult than advertised. This fraud led to more child abuse.
I'm very dubious of the reasons someone would prefer to adopt as in my experience nine times out of ten it's because of a complete ignorance of child development research, but there's the facts.
Thank you for writing all of this out. I am in a community that values adoption, which is great. But it 100% comes with the trauma.
My adopted best friend killed herself. Her adoptive mom was a very good person, but also unwilling to acknowledge the trauma that inherently comes with being adopted. Babies are not blank slates, ever.
‘Babies are not blank slates’ is so important for people to know. I didn’t realise how much your baby is already bonded to you until I got pregnant. They learn your voice in utero, they are little sponges that absorb your smell and recognise your face as quickly as possible. A newborn’s eyes are limited to focus at the distance from your chest to your face so that they can learn who you are. Studies have shown babies will try to turn to face their mother’s voice or show a calming response within hours of birth.
They are already born attached to you and are biologically programmed to need you, and YOU specifically. My baby is just shy of 8 weeks and to think of her needing me and me not being there… yeah just so damaging.
I am not adopted but my mom is, as are my half-brothers on my dad’s side. Watching my mom really come to terms with being adopted as she gets older has completely changed how I feel about adoption.
Half of us act out in our childhood. The other half, the so-called "good children", manage to repress it until middle age. That shit hurts.
I literally just commented this exact thing basically. Your comment is really relatable as another adopted person who has been diagnosed with BPD due to my adoption trauma. I was a baby when I was adopted and my adoptive parents were perfectly fine. It's just the abandonment trauma still eats me alive to this day, it's buried deep inside me and everyone is like "you didn't have it that bad idk what you're so trAuMaTizEd for, your home life was just fine". But it is so painful everyday learning how to manage my out of control emotions and fears surrounding relationships, and my deep deep loneliness that will never go away
And then people have to go and say, "Weren't you so lucky!"
Got any more salt you wanna rub in, dude?
Adoption is the only trauma in the world where the victims are expected by the whole of society to be grateful - Rev Keith Griffin
This reminds me of “The Primal Wound,” such heartbreaking things to learn. My husband is adopted.
Just curious - do you (or anyone else reading this) know how this translates to surrogacy? Because in surrogacy the baby is still being separated from the person who birthed them, but that was always intended to be the case. Is there trauma inherent in this form of separation as well?
I have been looking for that info for years, but I haven't found anyone studying it.
I was just thinking this. If all the trauma is rooted in biological mechanisms, then it seems it would make no difference to baby whether or not it was the intention from the start to be separated.
Reproduction is one of the major driving forces of evolution. A trait that makes more of an organism will become more common because it makes more of an organism.
We have an instinct to reproduce. That's it. We happen to have complex social minds that can care about the consequences of things and want things contrary to instinct, or that can just work differently from other people in lots of ways. But at the heart of it, the process of reproduction is just fundamental to all life, so it's a basic component of our consciousnesses.
It's not easy to adopt. It can be a grueling process and you may not even get a kid after interviews, classes, a social worker going through your home, background checks, getting your hopes up, etc
Animals' entire purpose in life is doing whatever it takes to spread their population and having their own children proves their genetic viability/success. It's hardwired to want to reproduce
Luckily, humans have sapience as well as instinct and sentience.
Damn I must have missed that update.
Animals don’t know about genetics, they have a drive to mate and raise babies but they don’t do paternity testing.
Animals are weird.
Plenty adopt, like swans, penguins, cats, and dogs, but others, like lions and apes, will murder offspring they don't believe is their's.
While that's the answer, it feels a little hollow to me because I've never felt the need to have genetic kids. Do other people really feel like they need their own kids the same way they're hardwired with lust, hunger, and breathing? Huh...
Pretty sure lust and pleasure is the hardwiring. Libido is the biological driver to have kids. We found some isolated hunter-gatherer tribes that still hadn't made the connection between sex, pregnancy and childbirth back in the 1820s
Now whether wanting kids is hardwired or not, I guess I didn't get that particular wiring. I don't want any.
im sure not everyone feels it or feels it as strongly, there are lots of factors at play that override instinct sometimes.
if you want anecdotal experience, sometimes i am hit with the urge to have a child so strongly i feel like a crazy person. thinking about adopting and caring for a child does not get rid of this feeling, but it is eased when i think about carrying, birthing, and taking care of that child. I feel it in my chest, mostly. like someone has pushed me from the inside, or like someone is gripping my chest muscles and pulling on them. my partner is a woman but sometimes during these moments i half joke with her that "i want your babies and i want them now." usually happens around period time 😂
Thank you for this. I think this is helping me understand.
It can absolutely be a strong feeling like that. It started happening to me in my early 20's and ever since I had my son I've been thinking about eventually having another. (Not soon, just someday) It's wild what those hormones can do to you.
I feel plenty of lust and pleasure, I stay active. Though I still don't want genetic kids. Hense my confusion.
Sometimes people are just built different. There are people who are asexual and don't experience sexual attraction at all, don't feel lust, and are repulsed by the very idea. I often don't feel hungry even if I've not eaten all day and then I'll get dizzy and have to force myself to eat something because I'm not getting the right signals.
I do not want children. I have never wanted children and been identifying as childfree since I was 13. I know that my health would not allow me to keep up with a small child and that my temperament would not be conducive to giving that child their best life.
I also cannot safely have biological children, as my heart condition means that my body cannot handle the stain of trying to support two lives.
Despite that, sometimes I just really, really want a baby, damnit. Like, I wanna cuddle an effing baby. I've synched this craving to my ovulation, right at the peak between my period ending and starting anew. It is, afaict, an entirely physiological issue. When I am at peak fertility my brain likes to imagine what carrying and having my own child would feel like. It also goes cute baby crazy.
Luckily, I have some really sweet and cuddly cats, who are all patient when I hug them or hold them like a baby.
So, IME, yes, it does seem to be hardwired.
Yes, it's hardwired, but the human brain is a complex organ and wires sometimes get crossed.
And unless you're ancient/post-menopausal or otherwise beyond reproductive years, the best you can say is that you have never felt the need to have genetic kids yet. Sometimes it triggers for people later in life.
lol. I’m post-menopausal, but not ancient 🤣. I do still have that strong hardwiring to have more babies, even now, though.
That's interesting, and gives me some hope that I'll personally understand someday. I know I do have some wires crossed for sure, I'm not neurotypical.
I don't know if you have any statistics on your claim, but I'm curious when the latest is that one will feel that imperative. I'm 26, and I'm going through puberty a second time because I'm on HRT. I'm curious to know where I stack in this.
it feels a little hollow to me because I've never felt the need to have genetic kids
A biological system always has members who fail to receive what is needed for them to be viable reproducers. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but it's also not something we can pretend is as good as the standard state of being.
Do other people really feel like they need their own kids the same way
Yes, most people are compelled to reproduce by both the internal states given them by evolution as well as from the society that produced them.
The fuck? Not as good as? Why? Super odd thing to say. It’s not the majority (I think, I don’t know the stats) but that in no way makes worse just like brown hair is the majority and having blond hair is not worse.
Not as good as? Why?
Humanity is best served by people with the urge to reproduce humanity. Do we have cultures that have adapted to make good use of non-reproductives? Absolutely. But no culture can adapt to all its members being non-reproductive. Inevitably, such cultures this has happened to have failed to eliminate bad ideas from proliferating.
Biologists, or whatever you are, should really just shut up about sociological issues. This is some borderline eugenicist bullshit.
should really just shut up about sociological issues.
Addressing the society's need for reproductive members seems like an issue of both sociology and biology.
This is some borderline eugenicist bullshit.
Before you say such silly things, you might want to look up what the words you are using mean.
"People who reproduce are, by law of nature, morally better for society than those who chose not to, because they provide valuable human-material" is really just a tiny step away from saying (and in my opinion basically already implying) that those who produce more valuable offspring are morally better than those who produce less valuable offspring, which is pretty much the core idea of eugenics.
Systems need participants to function, that is true, but those don't have to be exclusively biological offspring. New members of society can just as well come from outside of that society. I'm not saying reproduction isn't necessary at all, but saying that not reproducing is categorically a fault that needs to be corrected for (by finding ways to integrate those who either chose not to or simply cannot reproduce) is, as I said, bullshit.
"People who reproduce are, by law of nature, morally better for society than those who chose not to, because they provide valuable human-material
Who are you quoting here? This is not what I wrote.
is really just a tiny step away from saying (and in my opinion basically already implying) that those who produce more valuable offspring are morally better than those who produce less valuable offspring,
So, you write something I did not write, and then claim that what you wrote means something that reminds you of eugenics? Does that not strike you as profoundly stupid to have done? Because it seems so to me.
Systems need participants to function, that is true,
Glad you can state the obvious.
but those don't have to be exclusively biological offspring.
Humans are biological organisms, so our human systems are biological systems.
but saying that not reproducing is categorically a fault that needs to be corrected for (by finding ways to integrate those who either chose not to or simply cannot reproduce)
I think societies finding a use for everyone is a great project of humanity.
as I said, bullshit.
Society needs whiners on the internet too, so don't worry, you will have a place. I am greatly amused by your silly comments already!
Quotation marks are for the actual words someone says or writes. You can’t paraphrase someone’s words and put your version in quotation marks.
My partner was raised in a toxic household by someone who wasn’t their birth parent. I think after that experience, they cannot imagine facilitating the upbringing of someone that wasn’t their own biological child. Even if we could “do it better” it’s just not something they want to do. We either have our own child or be happily child-free.
Humans are not a placeholder. Biologically, we have the Drive to prioritize our own genetic material.
Adoption was actually my first choice. I researched it very seriously and discovered that: a). It’s extremely difficult and/or expensive to do and b). It’s a lot more morally fraught than I originally thought. The adoption industry is very much an industry and it preys on vulnerable people. Lots of really sad stories out there. I looked into fostering instead but ultimately wasn’t sure I could psychologically do it.
So I chose to have a biological child not because of a biological drive to reproduce, but mostly for logistical reasons. My child is donor-conceived so her other mom is not biologically related to her but my wife loves her all the same.
Haven’t ruled out fostering in the future once my daughter it a bit older.
I also looked into adopting because I thought it was the morally right thing to do. It is SO morally gray and often immoral, I had no idea! I'm convinced that in a few decades, western society will look back at how we handled adoptions in the '90s and '00s as barbaric (because it was/still can be.)
The story that made me finally say no, I’m not participating in this was about a married couple who found themselves pregnant. They already had 2 kids and money was a little tight but they could make it work, and were excited for their new baby. Then they found out that they hadn’t purchased the special pregnancy rider for their insurance so the wife’s pre-natal care bills and delivery would not be covered. They couldn’t afford tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills while also supporting 3 kids… and adoption agency approached them and put the pressure on, so they made the heartbreaking decision to give their wanted baby up for adoption. A few weeks after giving birth they found out their insurance had made a mistake- the pregnancy and birth would be retroactively covered. But it was too late- in their state adoptive parents had all the power and there was nothing they could do. Their baby was gone.
The vast majority of adoptions happen because the parent(s) cant afford the extra child. Even a fraction of the money that is spent on the adoption would allow them to keep their children. It’s really messed up.
The fact so many vulnerable (but capable!) girls and women are told they should not be moms and the responsible thing to do is to give their baby away is sick. They're pressured into giving their children away when, if the resources that went to adoptive and foster parents went to them instead, there would be less trauma for everyone (including baby) involved, and they could absolutely take care of their child well. Obviously this isn't the case all of the time, but it's the case a sickening amount of the time:( it's not all bad people who don't deserve their child who give their kids away-- it's often normal, good people who need the support foster and adoptive parents often receive.
Yeah that’s part of why even fostering is fraught- many of the parental neglect problems are caused by parents not having enough money…. But if you paid them the stipend that foster parents get then it would solve the problem. So… why are we separating kids from their parents who need money and then paying someone else to take care of them?
Yes. In many ways it is indistinguishable from other forms of human trafficking.
There simply aren’t enough infants up for adoption for everyone who wants to be a parent. Older children up for adoption have histories not everyone is qualified to deal with.
The purpose of adoption is not to resolve fertility problems.
I think its lovely having a small human be so similar and likely to yourself. When i think about having a little girl of my own the first thing that comes to mind is raising her with all the love i never had or all the opportunities i never had.
But i also reallyy want to adopt too🥹
I’m adopted and imo I am very similar to my family!! People say we look alike (and not in the “all brown people look the same” way, I do actually look related) and personality wise I am also very similar to my family. My parents also must love me a lot because they put up with my teen years lol. I sometimes joke that maybe my parents have been playing an elaborate prank on me for 25 years. And also it’s not guaranteed a biological kid will look and act like you. Kids are in general kinda luck of the draw/random I think
My husband and I have done both! We adopted our daughter first, and now have a biological son due in a few months. Oddly enough, people who aren't aware that we adopted our daughter comment all the time that she has his eyes, or my hair, or looks just like her grandma. It's kind of funny how people still tend to see those similarities because we're her parents, despite the fact that none of her biological traits actually came from us.
I’m adopted and I look identical to my grandma, more than my mom and aunt. We get told that all of the time and I always think it’s so funny how it ended up working out like that
Awww i am soo happy for you and i wish you the best pregnancy. And its trueee even adopted children take similarities in the parents that raise them. I wish you and your family the bestt🥹❤️
It’s just that the animals that had the inclination to want their own kids is the genes that are passed on. It’s not there deep. There is also tons and tons of nuance and other factors that cause lineage like libido, access to birth control and knowledge, access to safe conditions, accidents, etc. So it’s not black and white and a lot of times when we are looking for answers to more profound questions (which it seems that you are prodding for in this case) the answer usually has to come from introspection and within yourself and evaluating the nature of your question instead of an outside source that lacks the depth and “spiritual “ depth you’re looking for
Through no fault of their own the trauma of being a kid who doesn’t have parents can lead to a lot of challenges that foster parents and adoptive parents have to be ready for.
At the end of the day we are mammals, mammals desire to procreate. For those who demand biological children the ultimate desire is pregnancy and procreation, not necessarily parenthood. Although many also desire parenthood, I will be blunt and say the primary is procreation. It's just frowned upon socially to say that.
Things like infertility lead to a sense of "something wrong" because they don't have a choice in the matter.
Depending on a country, but adoption can be expensive or take too long or very difficult.
For example, I am a healthy woman and for me giving birth would be easier way to become a parent than adoption
If you’re able to get pregnant, it’s actually way easier logistically to have a biological child
The biggest issue with adopting is
A) kid family
Because is most cases kids are not 100% orphans.
And people are not willing to go that way
It's free to "make" a baby, but it's not free to adopt. Yes, birthing a child can be incredibly expensive, but it's not an up front cost and people aren't necessarily thinking about the birthing costs when they are in the "baby making" stage. It's a cost that sneaks up later.
Adoption, on the other hand, can be prohibitively expensive. There are ways of making adoption more affordable, like fostering first or adopting from out of country, but even then it usually involves some hefty up front administrative and legal costs.
Plus, the adoption process often puts up barriers for prospective parents. You have to have a social worker come and inspect your home to ensure it's safe and big enough, you have to have background checks, any disability or employment gaps or mental health struggles or prior criminal record could potentially immediately disqualify you from adopting. Again, nobody is running those kinds of checks to prevent people from "making" a baby, just adopting.
I don't want kids because of lineage. That's why I would never be a sperm donor. I want the kids to be with a particular person. If we couldn't have kids, I'd have no interest in adopting.
Limiting to the question asked, adoption has its own challenges. If anything, many developed countries actually have shortage of kids for adoption, especially those without disabilities. Both domestic and international adoptions have very strict criteria parents have to meet and they are very expensive and time-consuming, often far more than "just" having a biological kid.
I also have the same thoughts. I’m still tied on whether I want kids period but one thing I know for certain is I will never give birth. I take all precautions to make sure I will never get pregnant as well but accidents happen. If I were to become pregnant I would abort. I will never go through that. Ever.
I am extremely good with kids and I’m the favorite aunt. I have no problem dating people with kids as a stepparent is a parent. I have a biological father I hate and a stepdad that is my dad. He is the one to raised me and has always been there for me. He is the one who will walk me down the aisle. I’d also adopt in a heartbeat with the right partner and resources. I hate babies and toddlers. If I can choose to skip those stages, even with potential trauma and hardship in other ways, I’d 100% do it. I have dealt with my own trauma so I have the basic tools to help others with similar issues.
It’s simply biology, not even psychological. Living creatures are designed to reproduce. It’s what we do. It’s ingrained in our dna to want it so our species doesn’t go extinct. We live in a time where we know a lot of things and logic definitely thrives, but it won’t undo the millions of years of programming that our dna contains.
I would have liked to adopt, but it was easier and cheaper to have biological children.
I still wanted to adopt, but the adoption world is fraught with ethical landmines and trauma. After having 3 kids, and loving parenting, we took the foster-to-adopt training for our state - and all the requirements for fostering were incompatible with working a job (must be able to take a kiddo to middle of the day appointments/visitation/court) plus asking for excessive paperwork on day to day activities. Not to mention, training emphasized providing familiar things like food, television, etc. And while I hesitate to say we didn't finish our license over dino nuggets and tv, it did make me realize I had a home culture and activities I loved and didn't want to give up. And that's not fair to any child, let alone one who has already lost a family.
In nice countries, the cheapest and quickest way to get a healthy newborn is make your own. Even if it requires a few cycles of IVF.
OP, I’m adopted from Asia. The idea that babies are not blank slates was debunked a long time ago.
Babies tend to inherit family traits at some point in the lineage:
the way they walk, the way they stand, they way they hold their posture
if they have a strong or quiet personality (do you have a temper, or are you soft spoken?)
temperament (do you take after your mom or dad)
if your family has a history of mental illness or disease, you have a certain percentage to inheriting that same issue (unfortunately)
genetic mirroring (yes, this matters, but most people don’t realize it because they’ve grown up with it their entire lives)
innate predisposition to certain interests or hobbies (having an ear for music, loving sports, having a mind for chess, etc)
it’s not that someone from a non-musical family can’t learn to play piano, it’s more that if your mom or uncle or grandpa used to play, you are likely to pick up on learning music faster (have an ear for it)
some people are a klutz when it comes to physical activities: someone born into a family (where sports were a running theme) might feel more supported, can relate and discuss sports with family members, and have a natural affinity for specific movements taught in sports
TLDR: Genetics matter a lot more than most people are willing to admit, or are even aware of. I believe this is because most people don’t want to feel “trapped” by what they inherit (my dad was an asshole, I feel like I can’t control my temper, please don’t be like him, genetics can’t matter because if I’m like him, then maybe I’m not likeable because I can’t control my temper). What people forget in these discussions, is that people are not a monolith and are shaped by a bunch of variables, they just think “Dad had a temper, I can NEVER be like him” - but they only knew him as having a temper, instead of thinking, dad’s more than just his temper - who was he, as an individual? What shaped him to be that way, and why? So when people talk about genetics not mattering, they are uncomfortable that “eggs and sperm” can have such “power” over us.
As someone who has three adopted siblings. They are welll adjusted and I love them the same as my non adoptive sibling. We adopted through foster care. Before that fostered dozens of children. I think people like to blame “bad” behavior on “trauma” because they don’t want to take their own parenting failures. People would say things like: do you think child x does this bad thing because of his trauma. And as a teenager at the time I would think to myself: I used to that same thing at that age and so did lots of my friends. Some who’s parents didn’t even know…. I think it’s easy for people to blame struggles on the fact that the child is not theirs. But in reality, most kids are the same. Get them therapy and good coping mechanisms and they’ll do just as well in life.
The more you learn about adoption, the more you realize that pregnancy and childbirth are actually the easiest way to have kids in most cases. Whenever someone says "Just adopt!" I know they haven't bothered to learn anything about how adoption works.
Way too expensive to adopt. Or you go the foster to adopt method and have constant broken hearts as you are a way station for children they try to get back to the birth parents.
Because in general we as humans dont care about non-blood relatives
Sure you can say how much you love your wife or her parents but we both know how easy it is to break up with them
Oh and adoption in particular is nasty; far too often you read horror stories about how some kid ditches his adopted parents to search for birth parents. Or you get some weird inter racial scenarios where 2 whites decide to adopt a black (locally) or asian (overseas) then act surprised when they cant relate at all
Just a heads up regarding adoption and some uncomfortable truths.
There are NOT a lot of very young (birth-2) children available for adoption. Most of those children get adopted quickly as they're young enough to bond with most well-meaning parents. Hence, the screening criteria are pretty strict and onerous.
What is more prevalent is older children in foster care. The problem is that the reason they're in foster care is because they were removed from horrific and inhumane situations.
Handling children with that kind of trauma isn't something most prospective parents are able or willing to do.
This
For me, I grew up wanting to adopt, but I quickly figured out it was way too expensive and heartbreaking for me. In my state, the birth parent can change their mind for an entire year. I watched a coworker adopt a baby, raise her for 10 months, and then have the mom come back and take her. I don't think I could bear that kind of heartbreak, though I actually started the process twice over my years as a teacher with two different children (one was 12 and another was 8) and in both cases a family member came forward and took them instead. And while I do hope for the best with children going back to their families, it's very stressful and hard and there are so many sad stories. And then foreign adoption is just too expensive for me, but at least does eliminate the possible take back scenarios.
So I ended up having two biological children and I love them with all of my heart, but I think I would have loved my adopted children just as much.
I do get frustrated with people who say everyone should just adopt instead of having their own. Adopted children often need a greater level of care depending on their past. Many children in need of adoption have special needs and trauma. Also, it can be really difficult to go from no children ever to having a 10 year old. It feels like skipping a lot of steps and can be very scary. Expecting people who were trying for a baby and ran into fertility issues to be equally comfortable taking in a 4 year old with trauma is expecting a lot. I do think changes need to be made to the system, but guilting wannabe parents won't necessarily bring good results either.
I have been adopted (interracial adoption) and i will not recommend adoption...
Because the bond between a child and their biological parents is unbreakable. When it is broken, it leads to lifelong abandonment trauma even when it occurs in infancy. I can link a couple studies on this if you want. This is coming from someone, me, who was adopted. I have severe abandonment trauma and I was diagnosed with BPD, every psychiatrist I've talked to say the abandonment caused my BPD. I am in adoption support groups and adoptees, even with the best adoptive parents, veeerrry often have extreme trauma like me. My adoptive parents were absolutely perfectly fine parents.
Every time I see someone with questions about adoption, they (like you) are always seeking answers from the general public or adoptive parents. For some reason, no one thinks to ask for the perspective of those who matter most, the adopted children.
If you're interested in adopting like you say, then that's totally fine. Good for you. But you NEED to understand: adoption is not just becoming a parent. It is NOT equivalent in any form to having a biological child. It is becoming a parent AND taking on the trauma of a child who has had the basic biological foundation of their life ripped away. I URRGGE you to take a very deep dive into the adopted community, and learn what kinds of issues you will have to potentially help your child work through. It is a lifelong commitment obviously, and a very emotionally profound one. Again, not at all in the same way as simply becoming a parent.
The foster care system is about reuniting families. Also, many adopts are rooted in classism. Many parents would keep children with a relatively small amount of support.
Instead. Agencies accept absurd fees to profit off the misery of underprivileged parents.
So definitely research what many adopted adults feel about adoption before thinking you're saving someone.
I wanted to pass my genes on. And i love seeing / realising when my kids do something that are just like me or my hb. One child is very like my dad. I love this
So, are your genes sentimental to you the same sort of way your body is sentimental to you, and you wanted to have that in common with your kids?
So I've never wanted kids, and won't ever really "get" that at a visceral level. But I can maybe answer your question about genetic sentimentality... I enjoy seeing how my cousin's baby looks exactly like my brother's baby photos. It's neat. It's also interesting to watch kids in the family and pinpoint specific family traits (things that are influenced by genetics and not just created by the rearing environment). In general every family has a unique thing going on that they've been passing down (and mixing up) for a long time in their genetic/epigenetic lineage-- it's a continuous chain of people who are connected, have some cluster of traits/personalities etc. That familial je ne sais quoi. If someone likes their particular familial heritage then of course they want to keep passing it down.
And then there's the sense that you "know" your baby, because you know yourself and other babies in the family. That can give you a headstart on predicting their needs and understanding how they think, and your parents and relatives' experience is a little more relevant if the kid acts like you. And I'd argue it's not just about the kid/parent relationship tbh, it's a family thing-- you might bond with your mom over raising a kid who's just like you were, or compare notes with your sister about your kids identical allergies. When people make the choice about having kids I do think it is partly about how they participate in their family as a whole.
I've also met people who have a rough relationship with their family, but see positive aspects of themselves and their family traits. They want to have kids and finally let someone in this family lineage grow up in an environment they can thrive in.
Anyway I really don't want to sound like there's some spiritual thing here that makes adopted kids less connected. The cluster of genetic debris that is my family is definitely sentimental and I think it's cool to see it, not just in my family but I'm general. But that is not necessary for someone to be part of the family-- a family that totally relies on that genetic sentimentality, that doesn't have enough of a loving structure to love someone without, that would be pretty weak and hollow.
I actually think that’s an awkward but fairly accurate way to put it.
Intellectually, I know that I’m one of 8 billion humans and nothing about me is special. But I feel special. Lots of men have beards, but this is my hair and it looks good and I’m proud of it. I grew it myself.
My wife and I had a kid recently and I think it’s kinda like that. I wanted biological kids. I wanted to be there from the time they were a clump of cells and experience the whole process (as best I can as a man). And now that my kid is here, I love them like a part of myself in a way that’s a little odd to describe. Her being my daughter is sentimental much the way I’m sentimental to my own body. It’s like a part of myself (and my wife) budded off and is semi independent now. Of course she’ll grow up to be her own person, but she’ll always be a part of us in a way.
None of that’s to say I couldn’t love an adopted child the same, I’m sure I could. Or I hope at least. It’s not like I had some deep-seated daily urge to procreate or anything. But the general idea of “I’m cool, you’re cool, we should have a life together and make a cool human that’s one half of each of us” appealed to me. Sentimental’s not a bad word for it. A small goofy version of yourself or a loved one
Yeah, I agree. I love the thought of my son being 50/50 my partner and me. We made him. He has quirks we have, or he looks like us. I think most people are proud of some of their traits and it is cool to have created another person with the posibility of that trait.
I do think however, if life would have panned out differently and I would have remained childless until I met a partner with child, I would have made a great stepmother. My partner has a stepfather that he views as his real father. I see their behaviors match, nurture is definitely a thing too. But having both is perfect for me.
I don’t have kids, but my mom always said it felt like “bone of my bone, blood of my blood.” That’s kind of literally true for the mother; her body will absolutely cannibalize itself to grow the fetus, if she isn’t getting enough of the necessary nutrients. So yeah, for some parents it feels like their own body, beyond the egg and sperm, because of the nature and effects of pregnancy.
Whatever dude. The human race exists because we pass our genes on. You don't want to? Dont. No skin off my nose.
I loved that i grew humans inside my own body from 2 cells 👍 Amazing thing to do. Just feeling baby moving and growing. I found pregnancy the most incredible experience.
Now my kids are older? It still blows my mind MY body created them.
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To each living thing their genes are special.
Their genes are the definition of "special."
No one else on the planet has exactly what they have.
You’ve managed to override your most basics biological instinct. Congrats on using your frontal lobe to make a decision based solely on your reason instead of your instinct. Most of us had kids because we wanted them. And there are a myriad of reasons to want them, including basic biological imperatives. But no one has to follow their biological programming. Making a different choice is the awesome thing about our brains.
I don't think I overrid anything. I'm dumb as a brick and my morals are often driven by emotions just like everyone else's. My confusion is because I don't feel the instinct you're talking about.
Being driven by emotion and being driven by biology are different things but aren’t mutually exclusive either. Point is- you are not being driven by your biology on this issue. That’s relatively uncommon. If you’d rather not take credit for that, okay. There are 8 billion people on the planet. I think it’s great that you don’t feel driven by biology.
I think some of it is indirectly taught as we grow up, we're raised to assume we'll get married to an opposite sec partner and have biological children. Girls in particular are encouraged by society to see themselves as a future mother, through things like the toys available, the ads on TV, movies etc.
Unless they have a big reason to question that (only attracted to same sex people, find out they have a serious genetic disease type reasons) people will just habitually think of their future that way so they just make it intrinsically part of themselves.
I was raised with that too and until I thought about it when I was maybe 13, when I was around a bunch of gross teenagers being grossly horny and seriously thought "do I actually want to be with one of these yucky things?" FYI I could think like that probably because I am asexual and aromantic. Also kids are far too much work.
Many people have kids for entirely the wrong reasons, personal status, financial gain, leverage and control etc...
Some people want them to preserve the family's existence for another generation for longevity's sake and biological kids are the only option for that. Then there are those women that need that biological and emotional bond with something their own body has produced.
No matter how much you want it, adopted kids can never be genetically connected to the parents so they don't provide a solution to the longevity issue. It's a parent and kids relationship on a functional and emotional level only, nothing more than that... and for some it's just functional. Knowing that your children are carrying your family genes into the future is basically like passing them your family's history and to some people that is vitally important. The only way we exist beyond our death is in the children that are part of our history.
We (adopted kids) don’t carry genetics no but our vital records are legally falsified so we do carry on the genealogical records on which does matter a great deal to some people. I don’t understand why personally since my genealogical records are fucked and don’t matter to society, but it matters a lot to some people. shrugs
If you consider instinct psychological, then no. Personally not a huge fan of kids. Could not see myself raising someone else's. Possibly would maybe like the little genetic experiment between my partner and I because it would be interesting. Though I'm not sure if satiating my curiosity is enough to motivate me to endure pregnancy.
I've always wanted one of my own. Past that, IDGAF about origin. To be honest, I probably would've accepted surrogacy for a friend (so I could be in the child's life) instead of my own kid, because I mostly just... wanted to experience that. Well, my son is almost 1, so now I don't care about the origin of further children, I just want to love them!
This is still kind a kind of psychology- but in the field of evolutionary psychology, it’s believed we are hardwired with a desire to pass on our own genes. We allegedly have some innate desire to “survive” even through our offspring. There is a lot more that goes into the theory- and of course different theories as to why same sex relationships exist. But that’s the essence of it.
For some the bonding is stronger than adopting.
I never bonded to my adoptive parents but they bonded to me. It just depends on the people and the parenting. They were abusive and terrible parents. I didn’t bond to my biological child but she’s bonded to me. I think my ability to bond was broken when I was removed from my bio mother at birth.
A lot of the things adopted kids are blamed for by society are things that society has done to us. If we were treated better we would be easier to raise and bond with imo.
It's the entire purpose of our species. It's the driving factor behind most human actions. The drive to pass on our genes and continue the species.
I'm the same way.
I've never wanted kids for many reasons- my genes are bad imo, pregnancy can do horrible long-lasting damage to you, I'm too broke and it's too expensive, and finally, I can't stand toddlers and babies.
I still do have the urge to raise another human, but I think a large part of that comes from curiosity. I did not have a satisfying childhood, filled with caretaking responsibilities, high expectations, no privacy, religious restrictions, and cruel remarks about my appearance. I feel like I lost a lot of potential. I think a part of me wants to give the life I longed for as a child to someone else, kind of like an expiriment, and see if I can shape her into an intelligent, empathetic, confident girl, basically the girl I wished I could have become.
Finally, while I have no interest in caretaking for the sake of caretaking, I am a bleeding heart. Knowing other people or animals are suffering rips me up, and I know I can't even make a dent. The thought of even easing the pain of one hurting soul means a lot to me.
Sometimes I do get a little goofy and think my boyfriend is so hot, he deserves a kid, but that's about the extent of my wishes to bear a child. He's fortunately on the same boat as me and will not even consider children unless we owned a home at the least.
I have 3 grown kids and they are 3 of the coolest people I have ever met. That alone is worth it for me. But, not everyone needs to have kids, and no one should be forced to have kids. Thats how you make bad parents.
I wanted a child that was biologically mine for illogical reasons, I know. My grandfather died the year before my son was born. As soon as I found out I was pregnant, I felt like he was coming back to me. Named my son after him and I feel like I get to see him everyday.
The phrase you may be looking for is the "biological imperative." We have evolved to have the innate urge to have sex and pass on our genes to a new generation. That's why we're here. Our ancestors wanted their own kids, not someone else's.
The same way people feel an urge to have sex even if they are never taught what it is, people have an urge to reproduce and favor their own children. It's not that way because it's right, it's that way because those people's DNA are those who survived.
If you adopt a kid, you are perpetuating your own DNA, so in 10,000 years, your DNA won't be what's around. (In a very simplistic way).
But of course, we are more than our urges and biology. I also love kids and know I would enjoy seeing my features and my quirks in a baby, but don't want to pass down my health issues to someone else. So I am happy to take care of other kids.
I really wanted to adopt for the same reasons but we ended up having our own biological children because the adoption process was just too hard. Even though we were willing to adopt an older child rather than a young one, the reality of it was that they’re just aren’t a lot of children who are eligible for adoption. There are tons in the foster care system. But the goal of the foster care system is family reunification, and we were absolutely terrified of falling in love with a child and then having them “taken” away.
We looked at adopting internationally, but we just couldn’t justify $30,000 for the process, especially since so many of international adoptees have complex medical needs. (what you need money to treat)
We actually were considering embryo adoption at one point after a friend had IVF, but didn’t feel comfortable destroying any potential extra embryos. But for us, it was just so much simpler to just conceive on our own.
I wanted to have them because I think they'd be cool as fuck! Especially because they're half my husband, too! And he's cool as fuck. I'm dissatisfied with much of humanity, so I want to make people that I like and want to hang out with.
Obvi theres no guarantee that my kids will turn out cool, interesting, and fun, but it'll be fun to try and see how they do turn out!
I can see it from the perspective of wanting to experience them growing up (like from babies) but that’s still psychological. I don’t see anything wrong with adopting. However as a female, it’s a bond you gain from being pregnant. It’s a weird feeling and not a magic instant connection. But it’s there. Feeling the kicks and cravings. The pain and all. It’s just something that adoption at any age can’t replicate. I think there’s also a fear that after bonding and raising an adopted child, after thinking of them as your own for so long, when they’re older, they’ll want some kind of connection to their bio family. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but it feels like you weren’t good enough. You spend years giving the child al the love and stability and care you can give, only for them to want to go back to the people who had no part of their life for years and in some circumstances didn’t even want the child. It’s not that you wouldn’t help and push for the child to try, you’d still love and support them, but the fact they’re going after another family is like a slap in the face. That they aren’t actually yours even if you did everything a parent could
In fact the idea of having my own genetic kids feels off-putting to me, like it would be wrong in some way. I tend to imagine myself dating single parents, or doing foster care, both of which have some problems that I would need to prepare myself for.
That’s a valid way to feel, and it’s great we have people that feel that way. I don’t, but those are my feelings.
I have 3 kids. My firstborn is a spitting image of me, I the youngest looks like my wife’s side. Words don’t exist for the feeling I had when I saw the ultrasound and recognized my nose, or when he came out and I saw myself and all my baby pictures in my arms.
My kids are a bit older now, we’ve had the conversation of maybe adopting one; probably not in the cards for us. For one we have 3, and that’s a handful. Adopted kids are the same handful plus more. I think more people should be wary of being a parent, definitely more so adopting.
There isn’t a right or wrong side of this. I’m enjoying seeing our family coming out in our children, it’s a powerful feeling
The reason is biology. The purpose of all species is to ensure their genes continue into the future. Adopting to continue your lineage is a psychological matter (still valid, but just different), but having your own kids is a biological matter.
In nice countries the priority is family reunification, not the child's well being. So a kid is only up for adoption out of the family after all family members have gotten a chance to abuse them; at which point they have sequelae of abuse. So your choices are foster care (gets taken back when mom gets out of rehab) or adopt a teenage sex pest who starts fires. Not every wannabe parent wants to be a martyr.
They've done studies where people who simply know adopted people are more likely to be comfortable with adopting their own kids.
Just because people are different.
Some people know from a young age they want to be parents (my mom) or they definitely don't (my sister) or could take or leave it and be happy either way (myself). I chose to have a child and I love motherhood and find it deeply fulfilling. If I had chosen differently I would still be happy with my life, it would just be... different.
Some people feel the urge to have that bio connection and some just don't.
I know my family's medical history. It's not perfect, but I'm comfortable with my kids having that as their own medical history. I'm much more comfortable with that than the unknown.
For me personally both sides of my family survived horrific brutalities during WWII and it’s really incredible that they did survive when so many people didn’t, so I wanted to continue that line. If I’d ended up not being able to have bio kids I would’ve been okay with adopting but that’s the reason I did want to try for bio kids.
I felt like I would be much more likely to get along with someone who shares more DNA with me, based on how I get along with my relatives vs. other people. I realize not everyone gets along with their relatives but my personality is weird in a way that’s matched by most of my blood relatives but I think wouldn’t mesh well with a randomly selected person.
I wish wanting to adopt wasn't a dealbreaker for so many. I think I want kids, I just don't want to ever be pregnant
There are a lot single parents out there. It’s great that you’re open to being part of a blended family with step-kids. I think the reason many people are more wary is not necessarily that the kids are not their biological kids, but rather that they are either competing with the children’s deceased previous parent, or, if their other biological parent is still alive, you are then having to co-parent with another person, besides your partner, who may not share your values, and who many resent you.
With adoption, people may be worried that the child misses and would rather be with their biological family, hence why some people may prefer to adopt younger children who do not consciously remember their birth family (although even very very young children bond with their caregivers, and it is still a traumatic event for them to be separated from them).
Just some thoughts.
It sucks putting time, money, love and energy into kids only to have them taken away due to a break up.
I loved my step kids almost as much as I loved my own kid, but there was no legal recourse to see them after I broke up with their mother. I have a legal reason to see my flesh and blood daughter.
It is mostly psychological, although the desire is deep-seated and near universal. With that said, there is a progression of parenthood that comes with having your own biological children that you don't have with adoption. First, you become aware of the pregnancy, and do all the pregnancy related things, then you go through the birth, the newborn stage (either really hard, or not that bad, depending on whether your child sleeps), then the cute baby stage, the toddler stage, etc. Those stages come fast and furious at the beginning, and you are part of it. Depending on when the adoption takes place, you miss some of those things.
With that said, parenthood is not something for people who don't want to do it. If you would prefer to adopt, do so. There are lots of kids out there to be adopted.
Animals, including humans, can’t actually tell if a baby is genetically theirs. Instead we rely on cues from the environment, like smell, location, or timing to determine if a given baby is ours. These systems evolved because they usually help parents invest in their own offspring and not that of others, increasing the chances of passing on their own genes.
There usually is a kind of balance in those instincts, because being too lenient reduces the chances of passing on your genes, and being too strict can be a problem too. Lions killing their own cubs are an example, because while male lions kill cubs in situations where they’re more likely to belong to another male, they occasionally kill their own cubs too. Lions don't actually know which cubs they are genetically related to.
Humans are no different. Since DNA testing is a thing, there have been several cases where a child was found to be switched shortly after birth with a superficially similar child. For that to happen, two sets of parents missed the swap despite the children being very different genetically. To a human woman, a baby that is placed in your arms after you gave birth is your baby, and to a greater extend any baby you care for extensively is usually also considered 'yours'. This will often happen even when someone knows intellectually that a baby isn't theirs biologically, for example to children who raise their much younger siblings, involved stepparents, or in the case of adoption of a young child. As the child gets older, that natural process is harder because more biological context clues point toward the 'otherness' for both parent and child.
Those who do are more likely to pass their genes to the next generation.
Adopting an infant is hard. Everyone wants newborns or toddlers, so the demand is high. The supply of unwanted infants is not very high. Many adoption agencies won’t adopt out to anything short of a perfectly healthy, young, heterosexual couple who is very financially secure.
Adopting an older child is not something every parent is willing or able to do. Many of the children who are available for adoption have been through trauma in the foster care system. They need support and therapy that not everyone is able to provide.
Reproduction is an essential part of life. We’re literally wired to want it. Some don’t want it, but the vast majority do because it’s what continues the species.
I used to want to foster or adopt instead of having my own biological kids. I still think it can be a wonderful thing and may do so in the future, but a couple things changed my perspective and made me more open to having my own biological child:
1) I fell in love with someone who dreamed of raising a child from birth. For some people, helping to raise a child from birth to adult is a unique and fulfilling experience that they dream about having, the same as someone would dream about being a pilot or getting married. While some adoptive parents get to experience this, it isn't always possible since ethical adoption often centers on need rather than age of the child.
2) Adoption and fostering comes with less autonomy. With a baby, you decide how they are raised and can act on what you think is in your child's best interests. With fostering especially, the state decides what's in the child's best interest, and often they make decisions that you find to be hard or traumatic for the child, or just not ideal. Like say your kid has a disability and you know of a town with a school where they will make friends that have that same disability and can feel less alone. As a biological parent, you can just move there. But as a foster parent, sometimes you are mandated to stay close to where the bio parents live to allow for visitation. You basically have all of the responsibilities of parenthood, but without any of the autonomy or choice. It can be very hard for people to form close attachments to children that they can't actually protect or raise in the ways they find most beneficial.
3) Adoption and fostering can invite conflict, competition, or dramatic experiences into your life that you might not feel equipped to navigate. Depending on the type of foster or adoption, you may have to deal with bio parents that feel possessive over their child or are influencing them in ways you feel are not healthy (such as drug use). With a bio child, you don't have to deal with other parents, since you are the only parents in the picture. Also keep in mind that the goal of many foster programs is reunification, meaning that you are expected to support the child being reunited with their bio family eventually if possible, even if you feel you can offer a better home.
4) Fostering can be really, really hard, especially for certain personality types. I volunteer with an organization that supports foster families, and it definitely requires a certain personality type or ability to navigate trauma in a way that is simultaneously understanding/empathetic and firm/disciplinary. Many foster parents end up quitting or stopping fostering altogether, because they weren't anticipating the type of challenges they would encounter. Sometimes those challenges come from the kids themselves (who may be coping with their trauma in violent or unhealthy ways), some come from the bio parents, and some come from the state or lack of sufficient case workers, down to the logistical costs of constantly arranging visits or therapy appointments.
Put yourself in the shoes of a foster parent that constantly has to deal with the bio parents showing up at their house unannounced drunk and accusing you in front of the child of trying to steal them while they cry because they want to go with them, or a situation where a boy you're fostering keeps trying to inappropriately touch/molest other kids at elementary school because he was exposed to pornographic content at an early age, or dealing with a case worker that will suddenly announce that they are taking the kids tomorrow after you've had them for years with no warning because a court appeal went through, or a girl you are fostering threatening to call CPS and tell them you are molesting her because you told her she couldn't have dessert. The kids are often traumatized and come from families with addictions or unhealthy tendencies. You have to be emotionally prepared for that possibility if you want to foster.
Now this isn't to say that some of these problems don't arise with bio kids as well. All kids are hard to raise, and many bio parents deal with these same dynamics. And in fact, some adoptive or foster kids are extremely grateful and easy-going, more so than bio kids. Situations vary. So it isn't black and white. At the end of the day though as a non-bio parent, you have to accept that you may not have as much control over your child's experiences or influence over their behavior, and that can be very hard for some people.
For those that can do it though, I have the utmost respect for and believe they deserve all the support in the world. I would encourage anyone reading this to vote for and advocate for policies or politicians willing to put more funding towards the foster care system to better support both the kids and the people that decide to foster. They really do deserve it.
A lot of kids in foster care carry lots of trauma. It’s much harder on the parent, especially because they don’t always know exactly what happened because the child may not remember.
If you have a child yourself, you know what’s happened to them because you’ve been there. The hormones for a newborn bond with the birth mother. It’s just easier and a better experience.
Many people go into adopting or fostering with this savior attitude and it affects foster children negatively. Like the child literally survives hell and the foster parent wants to be treated like some “good person” when they can’t relate to the horrific experiences the child has endured. The foster parent doesnt deserve anything, just like normal parents don’t deserve anything from their child. They don’t realize how harmful it is to carry that attitude of “saving the foster kids”, so it’s not actually better
Being a birth parent also allows you to grow into parenthood with the child and through the stages. Nobody is born a parent; they become one with the child and learn to be a good one through the bond with their child
I think wanting to have a child biologically is just survival Of the human race. Primitive, subconscious..
Adopting is great. When you don’t know how the child was cared for up Until The date you adopt, you don’t know what you’re getting into. Studies in psychology are not exactly an exact science. If the kid was never held for the first year. Was born addicted ro drugs etc. you don’t know what that may bring or if you’ll be able to handle it. Can be scary.
Dating someone that is a good person and healthy that has kids seems like a good option if the other parent is sane and a good person or completely absent. Other bio parents can be nightmares if they are not happy about their divorce.
A lot of headaches.
No, you can’t know if your kid will be healthy or okay, but you do know if you’re a good person, they will have the best life from day one. No sitting in a crib for days I fed and unwashed. I don’t think we can know the damage some of those things may or may not do. Taking that in as a possibility can be scary.
Raising a kid is expensive and time-consuming. If I could not have my own bio kids, I'd rather just be DINKs and travel or something. I am not so interested in children in general that I would want all that expense and effort for a child that isn't biologically mine.
I have a daughter who is nearly 4. It's really fun watching her grow and see who in the family she reminds us of. She has some traits (physical and otherwise) from a bunch of us. It's just special, connecting our past to our future. She is a joy and is worth the sacrifices.
Experiences. I wanted to experience being pregnant, childbirth, etc. Don't worry I think I am a good parent. It's just I wanted to experience as much as I could too.
There are social reasons in some case. The "i dont want to be responsible for someone else's problem."
Some cultures dont believe in adoption at all.
Interestingly enough I wanted to foster and maybe adopt a sibling group until I met my spouse. He seem to trigger every primal instinct to make more humans and I cant explain why. I still want to adopt (especially older kids/teens) but now I want bios too. And not just a few kids but a whole chaotic house full. Hormones are weird.
Reproduction is a basic biological drive.
It's just stupid
It's really the whole point.
"A biological imperative is a fundamental drive or need that compels living organisms to act in ways that ensure their survival and the continuation of their species...The drive to reproduce is crucial for the continuation of the species, ensuring that genetic information is passed on to the next generation."
I think the biggest barriers to me wanting to adopt are how difficult/expensive I've heard it is, ethical issues or trauma issues for kids who are adopted, and the fact that blood relations are very important in my husband's culture, on top of his country's fraught history of adopting children out internationally.
But now that I do have a biological kid, I see some specific joys in that that I didn't necessarily see before having her. It's crazy to me how similar she and I are in some way, ways that I really feel come from genes rather than environment (she's still pretty young and she doesn't resemble my husband in the same way despite him being a totally involved father). It's pretty delightful, and it's also healing to be able to nurture her in a way my parents failed to do. I see flashes of other family members in her as well.
I think it's also meaningful to my husband and I as a mixed race couple to have a daughter who is half of both of us. We are different races, from different cultures, have different native languages and religious beliefs, and we're raising our own little person in this unique mix of things.
I don't think any of that means adoption is a "bad" option, but I do feel positives in having my own biological kid too.
It's not the same. Anyone who thinks it will be is fooling themselves. Raising someone else's child who is nothing like you and probably has some level of trauma is harder.
Financially its sometimes more affordable to have your own as some work benefits stipulate biological requirements.
I mean we evolved from animals, and we have a bunch of survival and procreation based instincts still so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that there is some primal drive to create biological offspring, no matter how unpalatable that is to our very valid desire not to invalidate adoptive or stepparent relationships.
Even if not every human experiences that I think it's likely enough do to make it a real thing.
I’m adopted. I hated that my adoptive parents just added me to their lineage and erased my family history and genealogy. I’m a person. And I had a family and a history before they acquired me and brought me into their home. Pretending that my first family didn’t exist was so weird.
I hated being adopted and not knowing where I came from. The way we build our sense of self is knowing who our family is and who and where we came from. Kids need to know who their biological family is and have connection with them.
I hated that my adoptive parents said the adoption was for me (it was for them because they were infertile) but it was closed and I didn’t get to know any of my family. And when I was finally able to find them I was made to feel like I had to choose between my families when I loved all of them.
Everything was about my adoptive parents feelings instead of how I was feeling. I was called ungrateful more times than I can count. Like I owe them my entire life forever just because they bought me as a baby and gave me food and shelter.
I hate adoption how it is right now. It’s emotionally violent and it’s legally a nightmare to navigate for me as an adult adoptee. I’m still seen as a child by the government and always will be because I was an unwanted child. It’s bullshit.
Adoption is changing though thankfully though slowly. Adult adoptees are speaking out about adoption and how damaging it is. Infant adoption is unethical and should be looked at with a side eye in the US. We are putting pressure on adoptive parents to change how they look at adoption and how they educate themselves. ALL adoptees come with trauma. Every one of us. Separating a child from their family causes trauma. And adoptive parents need to be aware of how to navigate that and respect our feelings surrounding it.
Fostering is for reunification and many kids who are available for adoption do not want to be adopted but would rather have a safe place to live until they age out of the system. There are no orphans. Kids usually have families. And families should be the first line of defense before giving children to strangers to care for them.
Permanent legal guardianship is the most child centering option available right now in the United States. But we need the adults with the power to fight for children’s (and adult adoptees) human rights.
> However a lot of people I've met in person and online seem to feel like there's something wrong with them if they can't have their own biological kids
Think about it like this. All life has an instinct to recognize and interact with its own kind. Would you be happy if you never spoke to another human again, and were just friends with dogs? If that thought gives you anxiety, then now you understand the base emotion of why people want biological kids. It isn't rational. It's instinctive.
An even baser instinct is to reproduce. There are some species that will die in order to do so. That feeling is not really something you can easily rationalize away. And people might find plenty of rationalizations as to why they feel that anxiety about the idea of adoption, but it really comes down to those instincts.
I scrolled down a bunch and haven't seen this yet.
A struggle a lot of adoptees and donor-conceived people face is that they don't have accurate family medical histories. It's a huge ethical problem for those people that adoption agencies and fertility clinics are not required to follow up with biological parents for updated medical histories, or really to stay in contact with them in any way. Many many infertility clinics have mysteriously closed and have their records all "destroyed in a fire/flood," when someone comes calling asking who their biological father is so they can find out if they have a family history of some genetic disease. And there are now countless cases of people finding out through at-home DNA testing kits that they were adopted or donor-conceived and never told, or that their biological parents aren't who they were told they were, including cases like the male fertility doctors using their own sperm instead of the chosen donor. These things get covered up, and it causes medical nightmares for people.
It's just instinct
You can love and care for a child LIKE they are your own but unless you had them they will never actually be your kid.
The idea of adoption or fostering might seem like a good, "there are so many unwanted children" option. In a lot of countries it's simply not that easy. Having unprotected sex with your partner is simply the easiest option for most.
I'm in Europe and know some couples who struggle with infertility and are looking into adoption. But there are so many hoops to jump through. Adopting from other parts of the world is also no longer allowed in my country so that makes it even more difficult.
I looked into adoption with my husband once (we wanted to adopt a girl if we couldn’t have our own) and it’s was like $10k-$20k to adopt where I am (with classes, and the assessments you have to do first). That’s way out of our budget and IVF would’ve cost us less or the same.
This is what's sad to me. My husband and I would love to have a child, but pregnancy absolutely repulses me. We'd love to adopt, but that's just not something we can afford.
I get why there needs to be so many hoops and checks to go through, it's a human child at stake. But if it were more affordable, I think more people would be willing to adopt
We adopted from our state's child welfare authority for free, but as another commenter said, it's really not for everyone. These kids often come with big needs.
Adopting a baby is pretty expensive due to how many people want to adopt babies. Adopt toddlers or older children, or fostering them, doesn't come with any of those costs but it's a much tougher thing to do mentally and emotionally.
Hi! Can I ask you why pregnancy repulses you? Don't get me wrong! Pregnancy also repulses me! Today we were talking about it with my boyfriend. He doesn't quite understand it, and I don't know how to explain it; it's something visceral. I would love to hear from someone with the same reaction!
I guess for me it's the body changes. The way everything changes and sometimes doesn't go back. From my friends alone, they said their teeth shifted, their hips stayed wide, their hair is thinner, their feet permanently changed size, back issues, never quite getting back to pre-pregnancy weight, etc. Then the mental health of it. One still has depression 3 years after the birth of their last, another has been on anxiety meds. And they all pretend like this is fine because they have a new baby to love. I want to be a mother, but not at risk of physically and mentally losing who I am completely and having to tell the world I'm okay simply because that's expected of me.
I've heard and known childbirth is hard and messy, but watching my friends go through pregnancy and realizing it's not all about that "pregnancy glow", and actually has the ability to wreck you inside and out... I just don't want that at all. Maybe that makes me selfish
Thanks for your answer! I see you have really thought about it.
But you looked into adoption after you could not get pregnant. What's asking OP is why didn't you consider adoption before trying to get pregnant.
This is not coming from a critical place, I am genuinely curious and, as someone who does not see a financial path to having kids at all, I have never understood this. Kids are so expensive. If you can afford to raise a child, no matter how they get to you, is $10-$20k really a barrier? Aren’t kids hundreds of thousands of dollars? Wouldn’t hospital bills for birth be the same cost? I can’t imagine having the funds to raise a kid, but if I did, it seems like $10k wouldn’t be enough to be a barrier, unless you’re scraping your budget that close…
Most people don’t need to spend 10k-20k (or more) all at once when they have a kid.
So like you might have $3k for coinsurance etc, but not $10-20k. That is a big difference, but considering how much expensive, unexpected stuff happens in life and we are talking about entire children and their survival/wellbeing, it surprises me to hear that people are ok birthing a child for a little but not adopting for like $10k more. It seems like you need a lot more money than that to be prepared for emergencies with the child, delivery complications, disabilities, etc. and I must just be missing something major about affording kids
You also need to know that you aren’t guaranteed an adopted child just because you put in the application. Sometimes the bio parents can even take the kid back a month or two later. Now, anything can happen with a pregnancy too but for most parents it’s just a much lower barrier to entry to have sex so it’s easier to at least give trying to conceive a chance.
The difference is years. Kids are expensive but not nearly what you think. I have 2 boys already. My oldest is special needs and in a specialized therapy. If I were to put money aside to adopt without it affecting our day to day life much, I could afford $100-$200 a month. But to save up to $10,000. It would take about 8 years for me to save up enough. If I were to just take $10,000 out of our savings it would severely put us back and I wouldn’t have the safety net for my kids should a medical problem come up (my youngest sees a nephrologist bc of kidney issues he had since he was born). Also, we have a good insurance that covers birth completely. So I don’t pay anything except for extra procedures not related directly to the birth and for that I only pay the copay. And kids don’t cost $10,000 off the bat. It’s a few hundred a month. Doctors appointments are $25 and they get seen once a week for the first 4-8 weeks, then monthly until 1 year, then at the 15/18 month markers, and then at 2 years it becomes once a year. A large box of diapers for newborns is about $45 before tax give or take a few dollars, and you go through a box roughly every 1-2ish weeks (depends on blowouts and how often you change which should be like 10 times a day). A a car seat is $150 depending on the one you get, and for a very good one can go for upwards of $250. For a stroller, I would need a wagon as I have one special needs child and one toddler, so that’s about $500 and up. You need to buy clothes which for the first few months can be a couple hundred dollars worth. Play places are good also developmental toys, another couple hundred or more depending on the brand and player you use. Basically these would all be costs I’d still have to pay if I adopted a baby. I do have some baby things from my prior kids, but for parents who are trying to have their first kid, you have to add on the costs for a bassinet, a crib, high chair, and possibly more car seat bases (depending on number of cars). The costs of adopting can be the same as having a kid for the first time only you pay everything all at once, and then you still have to purchase everything else for the child.
Adopting in the US is difficult too, there are so many criteria that the parents have to meet AND it can cost tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket. It’s not like it’s cheap to give birth here, but at least that can be covered by insurance.
There’s also a lot of ethical concerns with adoption that some couples want to avoid. However, finding a way to obtain a child that is not yours biologically but also ethically and affordable is hard!
This. I am in the US, but adoption can be hard financially and emotionally. The usual successful ones I know of are the family adoptions.
Netherlands too, huh.
Having unprotected sex with your partner is simply the easiest option for most. --> and cheapest !