Overwatch
Blizzard after looking at the first results of map voting:
Even if sometimes other maps win the voting roulette, I think 5 people voting for Route 66 over 1 voting for New Junk City will be pretty telling when the stats arrive... Just sayin'.
Discussion
Clash is the only mode I hate
Why do people hate clash? I find it fun
I love the concept but it's bad competitively when you are practically punished for winning early rounds.
You just have to tell your team to not push final point, just wait and let them get it, stay on second point.
True but it's still bad game design if the best strategy is let them score.
I'd like to see how much it would change if capping the spawn point didn't score any points for defense
Fair. Middle always scores, first and second only on offense, that's clever.
So punishing to win. You can go back and forth on B which has defenders advantage because pushing to A is too damned hard. And one bad fight and a few swaps, the enemy team rolls you. You can lose clash without ever spending time in your half of the map.
However you get no advantage for scoring in a harder point. It's like if you could win push without ever pushing the robot past 10 m while your team pushed to 100m.
Staggering I think is the biggest issue. Good coordinated teams make Clash super fun, but because of how fast paced it is, it is also incredibly punishing.
All it takes is your tank dying two times in a row, and that's almost 2 points worth of value for the enemy team.
i like push maps. hate flash point.
I think the concept of Flashpoint is actually good, but the maps are just not good.
This is the exact issue
If they just made flashpoint on maps like the PvE Paris and PvE Kings Row, I would play flashpoint 24/7 instead of vote-kicking flashpoint due to muscle memory.
It is 100000000% because of the shit maps.
this is why 2cp was such a failure too because the maps in overwatch 1 for it were just ass. even after they modified horizon lunar colony it still felt like absolute shit to play on it. also a lot of maps had defender advantage
Defender advantage was natural in that game mode. Thats why it was only really enjoyable in comp where both teams had a chance
personally i loved playing 2cp, anubis and volskaya were top 5 maps for me
me too. :(
Me three :(
Second point Hanamura was hell but I just love the vibe of that map.
i miss zero gravity
Aatlis demonstrates this pretty well. After the poor showing of the other two, Aatlis dialed the details in and looks like it's going to work.
Fun fact I have never gotten to play on that map because I've seen it like once in voting and people voted against it
Idk. Maybe if I COULD PLAY THE FUCKING MAP
Look at clash, it's basically the same but it's way more bearable because it's not a 2 mile walk to get curb stomped after a fight and if you get curb stomped it's relatively fast, flashpoint, is just torture for both teams (they're still not good games modes)
Nah Clash is way worse. At least in Flashpoint there really isn’t snowballing. Like sometimes if you get really unlucky with the next flashpoint the enemy team can block you from getting there but it’s pretty unlikely. You both have roughly the same chance of getting to the next point first.
Clash is torture too with it rewarding the losing team with free points
That's how I feel about several push maps !
Yeah this is pretty much it. I love what they did with Aatlis. Smaller map but still populated with lots of spaces for team fights. Sticking together from point to point is easier, and you actually do have fights in the in-between spaces when you're making your way to the obj.
Other maps are just way too big. Or at least the spaces in-between the objectives aren't as interesting to contest. I'm actually pretty excited for the changes to New junk city.
I think the concept sucks even. Its just control but worse in every way
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The bot wants to push. Are you trying to hurt his feelings?
"You're built to push bot, so do it."
I’m sorry I’m stupid :(
I also realized this late, only when somebody explained it to me. Well, that's why I'm in bronze 😅
omg I’ll never understand that. Why give them a chance by bringing the bot closer to them?? 😭
You'll never understand that not pushing the objective is not intuitive? Really?
Yea this isn’t a player issue, it’s a gameplay issue. From a game design perspective, you really don’t want players to be punished for doing the objective. Idk what the fix is though.
In qp ....meh it's qp
In comp...100% I'll try not to push bot when the timer is running down
Same. I think that Push and Flashpoint were trying to solve a fundamental dilemma: It's more fun to be on the attack then to be on the defense.
The problem is that Flashpoint (specifically) only really benefits fast moving/high mobility heroes. It sucks to be winning, pushing the point further from your spawn, die, and then spending half the time trying to get to that new point. Something that could mitigate this is offering teleports for folks who are far enough away (but disabling them if the point closest to the opposing team's spawn door is the one that's being fought over).
Flashpoint is just control with worse maps and gamerules
Same I genuinely enjoy push. Flashpoint. Is just miserable
Push can sometimes be fun, Flashpoint absolutely sucks balls every single time and it doesn't help that the maps for the mode are horrible horrible horrible horrible maps.
Push is just so bad feeling. Playing mecha break I prefer it's two payload game mode over the push game mode of overwatch... And the two payload map has balance issues, still see it as more fun.
The idea of Push is good (payload race is my favorite TF2 mode). The first few Push Maps BLOW, and some of the later ones still have problems.
Both are far above both payload modes, flashpoint is great
I would like push more if the maps weren't completely symmetrical. It's the same problem I have with Clash, it's not fun to essentially play on the same map layered over itself for 6 minutes.
Hard agree. Flash point are 95% of the reason I quit. As a shitty junk main, there was just too much boring travel time to make it them any fun and no way to skip them / block them out of the queue. Hate every single flashpoint with a passion.
I’ve been having a great time playing so much push the payload tbh it’s my favorite mode so I’m not even complaining I would rather play 90% payload maps
Tbh it could be just payload and itd be fun
And this is why I've gone to playing Stadium exclusively this season. Payload has always been my least favorite mode (besides 2CP) and I'm tired of seeing it every game.
Oof that sucks yeah kinda unfortunate for players like you that dislike it ;( hopefully they’ll find a middle ground, but I do hope as a result of this happening that more payload maps will be released.
What’s wrong with push maps?
I wasn’t the biggest fan of push maps but they’re growing on me because they are about 10 mins unless it’s a total steamroll. It’s also balanced on both sides.
Push is totally fine, I've gotten to like it about as much as escort.
Flashpoint I can tolerate, clash I've gotten to actually dislike.
I'm also still a fan of 2CP and wish it would come back at least to quick play. I still think a lot of the problems with it could be resolved with better map design.
And, a lot of changes to heroes make 2CP less oppressive. With only one tank, there's no double shield. Even if they bring back 6v6 for reals, double shield doesn't really work. There's way more shield break and more mobility to get around it, plus no turret bastion camping in a corner.
I miss Volskaya, ngl. Hanamura was also fun
I miss Hanamura so much. Was my fav map in 1 :(
Hanamura I was fine with usually, but Volskaya gives me PTSD. Literally only have good memories on that map from 2016 OW and custom games. On comp it was torture.
2CP was so much better than clash. Epic misfire of a mode.
I think reworking the maps to add a 3rd point would work too. Imagine each map having a 3rd drastically different point that changed the map meta for sight lines/ambush points.
That'd work, but I think even giving every point more than one route of entry is enough. The 2CP maps that get the least hate (Volskaya, Hanamura) always had a flank route on both points. Other 2CP maps ended up having mandatory choke points with no alternate routes, weirdly enough always before the first point which I think contributed to their reputation.
The tiny gap at Paris, the open area on moon base before you could go outside, that first spot on Anubis that ALWAYS had the attackers going left into the small side rooms, etc. Give some sort of flanking route to let someone get into the backline while the rest of the team pushes.
What? I don't remember a flank route on the first point of hanamura. You had the little window by the gate but you were fully exposing yourself to go through it
That's the one I mean. Definitely not perfect, but just having an extra spot to help overwhelm the defenders was big, I think. Just something that forces the defenders to split their attention. Same with Volskaya having the flank route that's only accessible to flying, jumping, or wall-riding characters.
I do think the flank route could be improved on Hanamura, but I think even what exists is world's better than the other three 2CP maps' first points.
idk i think horizon lunar colony its good too. Like its so open.
The only way I have fun on clash maps is if I don’t play them
All qp has to be is 6v6 role queue with just payload/hybrid/2cp, almost like they should have never even gotten rid of ow1
Agree, I will push and I genuinely have fun but I do have to agree with the steam rolling aspect. I find certain lots of especially colosseo , the first two minutes really make our break the game. Especially if the team composition is shite.
I feel like a lot of people often just give up after the opossum team takes the first few meters. But when it comes to more aggro players push can be really fun and really really back and fourth; which is nice because I’ve scored some wins in complete overtime with 0m - 99m. Which is always rewarding
I find Push kinda boring and there's a lot of long walks from spawn but I have been really enjoying the Stadium push maps, feels a lot nicer to play a smaller, more chaotic version of it.
I don't mind push personally but they're very repetitive. The map is mirrored so really it's only half a map as it's the same both sides. Then a lot of the fights happen in the exact same spots because what's often the best strat is for the leading team to constantly fall back to one of the main choke/high ground spot near the first checkpoint and keep winning fights there after securing a big lead - the bridge in Colosseo, the bridge in Esperanca, the highground overlooking first checkpoint in NQS etc.
Before overtime, the spawns are also pretty easy to defend so if one team is better you get a lot of games that involve winning a fight outside your spawn, walking the bot all the way back to the middle, losing 2 more fights, winning the next at your spawn, walking it back to the middle, losing the next 2 fights etc.
The overtime extended respawn timers can often lead to some ridiculous comeback snowball wins where a team that's been getting pumped the whole game can somehow win which often feels a bit ridiculous. All it takes is one wanker on your team who refuses to group up and runs in by himself to feed and that hands them over like 3/4 of the map when people are taking 15 seconds or whatever to respawn.
The long walks back from spawn feel atrocious sometimes. When you die and your team holds on for a while, you sometimes almost make it back to the fight before they all go down and then you have to wait for all of them to respawn and then wait for them to make it back as well. Leads to times when you spend 30 seconds or more out of combat.
As far as game mode design goes, the biggest issue is how progress changes hands. In other modes cleanly winning a fight means your team immediately starts gaining progress. In push if you win a fight after the enemy had possession of the bot then you have to walk the bot all the way back across the map before your team starts gaining progress. This lets the other team re spawn and fight you again before the bot actually starts pushing. This effect is also made even harsher the closer you are to the end.
Imagine if control point forced you to sit through a 20 second timer after winning a fight before you could capture the point back from the other team.
EDIT: wanted to add that a lot of people also dislike the map design because it leads to a lot more walking than other modes
The community has to dislike atleast one gamemode I guess.
The new gamemodes arent even something completely new, they all are basically variations of current ones.
lol for real. I also love the new map.
Push is boring and feels too snowbally.
It's not payload.
Payload, my beloved...
No idea how to describe why, but I hate it
Flashpoint (except Aatlis) and Push is manageable but clash I cant stand
I don't understand why they don't make speed boosts appear everywhere in between the phases in Flashpoint (when switching the objectives). Litter the entire map with speed rings and that would resolve the walking complaints (remove them when the objective countdown starts).
I really like flashpoint as I play mobile heroes, but I appreciate that it's not as fun on pure pedestrians that have to walk everywhere.
<cries in Zenyattish>
Get those Mario Kart boost panels
I can imagine it could lead to dueling over a free speed boost depending on where these speed boosts are
God i feel you
In concept the game mode seems fine but capping a point and then seeing the next point be 100m away while you are playing zenyatta is akin to torture
That’s why you automatically win the game if you have a competent Lucio.
Imagine you queue for 10min to get clash
Aatlis is the best map released so far in OW2. People all got on this hate Aatlis bandwagon without ever playing it because of voting.
I really like all the push maps and most of the flashpoints, but the likes of new Anubis and new Anamura feels like the old Anubis and old Anamura... Just pain
I hope they go full circle and get us Volskaya industries lmao
OMG I forgot all about that map!
Right? I'd rather have the 2cp versions of the map back then whether the cluster fuck clash is
I have to say I do like the new map.
However, I'm kinda partial to night maps, so that's a factor 😅😅😅
Me, who likes all gamemodes...
Same here. I have some maps I like a little less, but I do still enjoy playing all maps in all modes. Variety is part of the game!
Yup. Having to play King's row 6 times in one session killed all hype I ever had for the game ngl. I'm just gonna sit this one out until they either revert or prevent the same map from rolling over and over and over again. I want to play overwatch, not King's Rowatch.
You guys get kings row?
See I'd gladly play Kings Rowatch if they'd let me
Agreed here. I never thought I'd get tired of King's Row or Dorado, but, fucking hell, give me a break!
Even within the Escort modes, there are maps I haven't played a single time since this map voting thing started. I've not played Gibraltar, Shambali, or Route 66 once! And that's not even getting into the other map types, either.
I'm fucking boooooored.
Yeah I'm generally okay with all maps, even though i have favorites and disliked maps. I don't want them to remove push and flashpoint and clash even if I like them less. I miss 2cp. Variety is king, even if we all have our preferences.
Me, who also likes all maps…
Yeah I definitely have preferences but none I totally hate and I could never imagine leaving at the start because of the map, I can't believe there are dirtbags that do that.
Same! I like some game modes over others, but like I won't complain over whichever mode we end up playing. I just like having variety. I don't care to play escort 4 times in a row.
I'm the same way with maps.
BRING BACK 2CP HANAMURA AND VOLKAYA NOW
I've always said this, there should be more maps not modes.
I love push because I wanna help my big robot friend get to the other side of the map :3
I love when he says hello back to me 😁
When playing tank, big robot friend helps me cope with the lack of a tank friend like we had back in OW1 😔
Most innocent overwatch player.
If Stadium has shown me anything, it's that the smaller versions of the push maps are much more fun than the larger versions.
I hate the full version of collisio (or whatever it is), but the mini version isn't that bad at all.
10 minute matches where 35% of it is running back to the bot, kinda sucks.
Me who likes Ecopoint: Antarctica ….
I think it would be nice if each vote was for a map with the same game mode. I like all the game modes equally and it sucks now since all I play is escort
Yeah i was surprised the map choice had different modes. Mode should be selected first, and then people vote on the map.
Am I the only one that hates control?
Nah, I don't like Control either. The way everything resets after each round is ass, and it doesn't help that just about every Control map has an absolute dogshit point.
Control is my least favorite too...why? Because they require more teamwork than others.
I feel like Control works way better in 6v6. I used to love it in OW1 but I think it's just OK in 2.
How could you hate control? It's legit the best map. It's the closest you can get to Team death match; meaning it relies slightly less on 1-2-2 team comp.
I've hated Flashpoint since the beginning, and I feel very validated by these results lmao. When I've seen people complain about it in other seasons there's a bunch of "get good. You just aren't playing right," comments.
i agree i am glad we arent the crazy ones the ow devs are the ones
Push map hate is unwarrented, as a Soldier main I used to look forward to push maps as they are quite open and have layouts that enable DPS to excel/solo carry. I would take any push map over trying to get through a choke such as Hollywood 1st any day of the week.
Im shocked the flank heavy hero enjoys the flankfest maps
Push is alright, but it used to be basically every other game with the same 4 maps. And it was nearly always new queen street. You could genuinely play the same map 3 times in a couple hours.
Now I'm guaranteed to play the same map no less than three times in 2 hours. Progress!
true, but i don't get all angy when someone disagrees with me, because i can just vote for the map myself :)
Well of course you love it as soldier lol. Play zen and tell me how you feel.
Making my entire team have to wait and not push the bot just so they don't take a 5v6 cuz I'm just barely faster than the bot when its not pushing the wall.
"As one of the fastest heroes I love the map that requires a lot of running"
Flashpoint is fine in higher level competitive, but it's unplayable in quick-play and casual games. People get staggered, stay behind at already captured points to play TDM...it's a total disaster.
Personally I'm just happy to get other things besides koth and flash point. I swear I could go days without a payload or hybrid map and it would get so stale. Now though so many payloads with some push and koth thrown in and it's so much better. Also fuck that one guy who chooses new junk city flashpoint when everyone else chooses a different map and somehow new junk city is chosen.
I just want them to bring back Paris and Horizon Lunar Colony. And Hanamura.
Fuck their dumb ass management. What game actively REMOVES content!?
People didn't like Paris because they were bad at it. Utilize that. Don't cave into the babies.
The algorithm put clash, push and flashpoint very high on the priority list for a lot of the time.
Looking at my last 10 played maps from before the new season, it went push clash clash flashpoint push clash flashpoint control escort.
It really was a rarity to see anything that wasnt those 3 modes! Payload maps are what the people want!!!
Free lootbox when picking less popular maps should do the trick.
More lootboxes in general. The minimal amount in the battlepass is abysmal
I hate push maps with all my heart. So glad I avoided every single of them since map voted got added.
Why does this community hate game modes and maps so badly? Do you really enjoy playing the same maps over and over again?
Do I want to play King's Row 4 times in a row? No. But if it's between that or a Flashpoint/Clash map, then I'm going to pick King's Row everytime.
I don't think Push is that bad though.
What, you guys like de_dust?
And yes, it's quite obvious from the map voting that most players enjoy playing the older maps and game modes.
bring back 2 cp
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
Of course. If a map is good then you’re more likely to enjoy it over and over again.
Because the people who come here are the ones most likely to complain. This entire post is going to be a shocked pikachu face when once again this sub is reminded they are not the majority of the playerbase, and most people don't actually visit these sort of places.
Idk. Since map voting became a thing I've watched people avoid flashpoint, clash, and push like the plague. It seems like the overall player consensus is that they don't like those maps considering they only ever seem to get one or maybe two votes.
Wrong, people are actively voting to avoid clash and flashpoint already.
Not been my experience. In ranked I get some variety but QP it's almost all votes for payload maps with 1 or 2 votes sometimes on other maps. Wouldn't be surprised if this ended up being similar to Sombra where the vast silent majority has dislikes for X or Y modes/characters that align with people here.
Well, some people (I include myself here) actually do, believe it or not.
It's like asking if people enjoy watching The Simpsons again and again, fully knowing Simpsons memes are being made every day for people who love the show and will keep rewatching to eternity 🤣
NA players, especially at low ranks, prefer brawl or poke tanks which lend themselves to hybrid/escort maps. Dive is too chaotic for them to understand and coordinate. So you see people describe these asymmetrical maps "cluster fucks".
I like Push actually. I'd always choose it over Flashpoint and Control
I like flashpoint!
Clash is the worst. Someone gets staggered it’s gg.
i go hybrid/clash/cart over control/flashpoint/push nearly every time
I honestly like Push and Flashpoint (although Flashpoint is the lowest of the bunch). Couldn't stand Clash though. Seemed like more often than not, whoever got the first point would just stay there if they died attacking the second point, so you were attacking a point that was already stacked.
I'm also a psychopath though who enjoyed most of the old 2CP Assault maps (except fucking Paris). So...
I don't want to cap up to 6 and 10 objectives in a single game. This is boring and/or frustrating
I will play over 1000 push maps before I even vote for 1 Flashpoint. 😤
Clash is fucking awful and needs to go. No matter how flawed any of the Assault maps were they were so much better than Clash.
The maps on push are actually mostly really good. It’s the damn game mode being inherently unbalanced that is the issue.
But I like Flashpoint....
I really like the new voting system. I don't have an issue playing Flashpoint and Push sometimes. I just don't want them to be as frequent as Hybrid or Payload.
Unfortunately this wont do anything because the point of map voting is to fix maps. Not remove them. Which isn’t actually unfortunate because we need the other game modes too
Never said it would lead to map removal, but it may lead to more Payload or Hybrid maps being developed (hopefully).
I like Push. :(
All map types would be fun if everyone just played objectives. But I find no one ever sticks to the robot or tries to take over a mission are in flash point. Not to say that people push payloads consistently either, but they do so more often.
Honestly, I'm getting bored of the same maps all the time. Sure, I have maps I like and dislike, but playing the same maps all the time is a quick way to make me dislike those maps. I also don't think map voting should be a thing in quick play,
And you're entitled to your opinion, of course.
But there are those of us who actually love playing in our favorite maps all the time.
Just like with food, there will be people who will get tired of eating pizza every day, while for some others it would be literally a dream come true 🤣
I don't understand why they insist on adding new modes. Isn't push, hybrid and KOTH enough? Does marvel rivals or Valorant have 5 modes, I don't think so. OW does not need more modes
They haven't released a payload map since ow2 release.
shambali?
You right. I forgot. Only came out a few months after in season 2 though. Multiple season ago near the release
time flies, the map still feels recent to me 🥲
it’s probably my favourite escort map now that I think about it.
Push I can put up with but even before voting I would auto leave if I got a fucking flashpoint map
Same. Flashpoint is the worst iteration of "everything has to be symmetrical and fair because this is totally a serious e-sport". I'd rather get my shit pushed in on Paraiso or Colosseo 10 times in a row than play any flashpoint map.
I'm so tired of getting payload maps and my team can't even get past a choke. If it's Numbani, it's guaranteed to be at least 4 rounds of misery.
I got Blizzard World two times in a row and that's when I knew I hated map voting.
In order from what I like most to least:
Escort Push Hybrid Flashpoint Control Clash Assault
In general: fighting at different places is good, fighting at the same place is bad, Assault maps have numerous inherent problems and massive issues with mapdesign and clash is just an attempt at fixing Assaults worst issues but it fails to fix all of them, making it still worse than control.
Clash is alright. Especially Anubis. The Chaos on the first point reminds me a lot of the never ending fights of Overwatch 1.
It’s funny to see all these folks defending the shitty game modes like they’re getting paid for it.
You can like the game while also admitting it’s not 100% perfect. That’s also an option.
Other people also like things that you don't
Speak for yourself. I don’t get nostalgic for playing the same 5 goddamn maps for 9 years in a row.
I hate mapvoting since I never get to play what I enjoy now unless I win the 1 in 10 then if I do everyone gets so fucking toxic about it, I've played hybrid/payload the last 20 matches straight I want to play something else.
woah, people disagree with you in a voting system 😱
the point is that on average, players will get maps they like more. the few that have unconventional favorites have to cope because that's the tradeoff.
I feel like push has gotten better over time because people understand it better, but it really sucks when you have to walk for 30 minutes back to the robot and get one shot right when you catch up to the team
I feel like a lot of problems would be solved of they lowered the spawn timer by a couple seconds.
That won't be solved at all because you'll still be walking across the map then getting one shot, you'll just be respawning faster to do it again.
and that DOESN'T happen when you're trying to assault the final point on King's Row/Gibraltar...?
🙄🙃
Numbani first point defense 😭
First point defense junkertown
The final spawn points are significantly closer to the payload on those two maps
They're not.
You can go time it yourself, if you do an honest test you'll see that comparable walks (ie. longest to longest) are the pretty much the same across most maps with some being a bit a shorter.
Iirc, the longest walk in the game is King's Row 2nd defense spawn to the first streets phase choke.
I don't believe they are. If you follow the path of the robot, sure, but that's the longest path. There are shortcuts on every map.
Some of you have severe spatial reasoning deficiencies lmao.
This is why I maintain people don't like Push because it forces them to play consistently. The other modes disproportionately reward winning a meme team fight up front.
They’re most certainly not. And you done have the payload coming back at you like the bot, the payload sits still or very slowly backs up and their team just sits and camps it instead of having to push into a fight like in push
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What I hate about flashpoint is that after capturing the point, half the team sticks to fight and the other half goes to the next point. Its just so chaotic imo 🫠
The kings row walk from spawn has scarred me in ways you would not believe
Push walk backs are really not that bad in comparison, are you not taking the shortcuts throughout the map or something?
Ive been asking this since push released. Like its only a long walk if you're following the road. Shortcuts are right there
This is always the case. People dont like new thing cuz they have to think
People have gotten better at Push over time. The mode still sucks. There’s no other mode that requires you to win multiple teamfights in order to make any sort of progress.
Escort you win a fight and either push forward making actual progress, or you stall a bunch of time on defence.
Hybrid you either cap point/, or it’s the same as escort, pushing forward / stalling time.
Control you get point and get progress.
But Push, let’s say enemy team wins first fight and gets 20m by the time your team is back. You guys then need to win point. But by the time your bot is at 10m, they’re back. You now need to win two fights back to back. But even if you win that fight, you’ll probably only get to, say, 25m or so before they’re back and in a reasonable game, you can’t win three fights in a row.
So even though you won two fights back to back, they will push their bot to 30m and keep the advantage. And that advantage will get worse and worse the further they get and the farther you need to rerun the bot.
It’s the worst mode by far.
In your push example, the other team won first fight and got an early advantage (like any other gamemode). Then you win 2 fights in a row to steal the advantage. Now, they have to win 2 fights as well to steal it back.
Sounds to me like the more teamfights you lose in a row, the more teamfights you have to win to get a comeback. Is this really that unfair?
Thats just wrong lmao you like never play the mode or what
Theres no way in the span off two fights you can't push further then 30 meters you realistically can get it in one fight unless if the enemy is able to stall the bot for so long after they lost the fight or something
I swear half the people talking about push don't play the game or something
Doesn’t every gamemode require you to win multiple team fights to make progress? Technically flashpoint only requires you to win one team fight into the point and then defend it for one fight. They might touch after that but it’s mostly just stragglers without a full team. But escort? You have to win at least like 4 or 5 team fights between every checkpoint just to get to the checkpoint and if you lost just one of those team fights the payload will start going backwards and you could lose all that progress. Escort sucks ass
Not really? Not at all actually.
Say you win a teamfight on first point of King’s Row on attack. Now, you get zone and move spawn and get cart. That a checkpoint. From there even if you are losing every other fight, you’re eventually getting the payload progress higher and higher. So next round, the enemy team needs to do that good and slightly better to win. On defence, every second you’re stalling is an advantage, so they get value out of just existing, but losing a fight gives the attacking team a big amount of value. So there’s a trade off.
Control. You win point, get 15% on point until they come back, another 10% while fighting, and even if you lose the fight you’ve at least got a 1/3 of the point.
But Push? Think of the ‘defending’ team as whichever team has a lead. They get the advantage of every second providing value, but the difference is they don’t lose value when the attackers win. If you lose while ‘defending’ the attackers don’t get any big instant value, they might not even get any value depending on where the bot was.
Push is also the only game mode where it’s smarter to abandon the objective if you are in the lead so that the enemy team has a harder time stalling
so what? you say that like it's a bad thing.
How does the enemy team manage to push it 20m with one team fight win and you only get 25 with two?
Sounds like a case of not contesting the objective.
you always get something for winning a teamfight in push, just like any other mode. even if all you get to do is run the bot back across the map, you've still bought time the next time the enemy wins a fight because now they'll have to run the bot too before they can gain more progress. it's basically the equivalent of winning a fight as defense on escort except that you also get the opportunity to gain progress yourself.
how you play the first fight is a big part of what makes you a good player. if you meme first fight you dont deserve it and if your team memes you were never gonna win. why complain? just roll with the punches