PeterExplainsTheJoke
Peter, what’s wrong with the ming dynasty?
Discussion
Herro mi Petah from the Chinese dub of the show. Ming Dynasty is the basic one, it is well known and therefore not interesting. It's also possible that she don't like the Han people because she is racist. Also possible that she don't like that the Han people took control from the Mongols and essentially removed democracy from China.
Zaijian Petah Griffin is leaving now.
Wasn't it xiongnu, not mongols? Mongols came way after.
The Ming were directly after the Mongol (Yuan).
No he was talking about the han at the end.
The ethnic group, not the dynasty.
Oh I see. When he said han people, I thought he meant people from the han dynasty lol
Understandable, no worries.
Han dinasty was waaaaay before all that, though (being, ofc, the origin of the ethnic qualifier) ; Chinese historical names can indeed be super confusing. And that's not even counting the diversity of Latin transliteration systems, and how to pronounce them. Combine this with a very rich and complex history over a large territory, and that's why I consider myself to be barely above ignoramus level on that immense topic despite having read not 5 years ago a classic of general histories of China (Jacques Chernet's the Chinese Civilization.)
Han is also an ethnic group within china (the main one) as well as the dynasty
Ah yeah, I thought he meant people from the han dynasty originally lol
Correct answer is qing because monarchy is wrong and the last dude just lived his live peacefully as a random Gardner in Beijing lol
You do realised he became a gardener after he lost both Qing China and Manchukuo Empire?
Sucks that Puyi ascended too early and that he didn't learn much. His dad, Zaifeng tried persuading him to not take the Manchukuo throne since he will be a Japanese puppet, though Puyi was trying to reclaim his lost throne.
Cixi was a demented fool, and thanks to her, the Guangxu Emperor is killed and unable to continue reforms upon her death, and the Xuantong (Puyi) Emperor is unable to prevent the Xinhai Revolution.
I do. I just take it as a weird redemption story and it's a cooler story than getting shot in a basement.
I remember vaguely watching Bertolucci's the Last Emperor at aged 7 in theatres, mostly being absolutely enthralled at the somptuosity of the Forbidden City, the story of a child who couldn't live a normal child life like I was, but I also remember him becoming a gardener, and the ending, with the young "boyscout".
(I also remember it because whereas I had not noticed those almost 3 hours passing by, I had to wake up my mother upon credits rolling, and it was the last time she went to the movies with me: she'd just drop me and pick me up henceforward. Which was honestly unfair to Bertolucci, but fortunate for her because the movies I went to see the next few years - Last Crusade, TNMT, that sort of things - definitely would have even less been her cup of tea. )
Yea cixi killed any chances of a meji restoration style quick modernization
WTF Monarchy is wrong they are often more democratic than the republic.
Mongols had democracy?
Nope lol
They had some pretty interesting and arguably advanced civil practices, but definitely not democracy.
Compared to what China had before or after, sort of.
The Mongols weren't democratic, but an oversimplification of how they ruled was they preferred to delegate local control to quasi-democratic committees rather than appointing single, powerful administrators (the latter being favored under Confucian philosophy). When the Mongols were overthrown, the Chinese reverted to much more top-down, autocratic systems.
Ming Dynasty being basic is stupid, like Ming literally made Joseon and Vietnam adopted Ming China culture, not to mention the fact that Zheng He voyages and with historical records shows that the Ming Dynasty possessed the largest fleet in history.
Though I agree the Ming Dynasty is kinda lame since the Hongwu Emperor is a racist guy who doesn't believe in non-Han people, and they burned their naval fleet, and they have incompetent emperor who got captured during a campaign.
Eh, Ming Dynasty is the chinese empire equivalent of Monster Energy for 20s something undiagnosed guys.
It is just there, span a lot of time and the most likely any random person can just name. Even if it is just because they heard about a Ming Vase being destroyed in some kids movie. That does not make it less important. Just something that you don't want someone to say when you are excited to talk shop about chinese history. If I wanna find a football fan and their favourite team is Barcelona, I also know that I most likely won't get an actually nice discussion out of them if I am really into football. Or if you have a guy telling you they are very into history but they don't know anything outside WW1, WW2 and the roman empire.
It’s as important as the han and tang. He was right to favor his own. Everyone should.
Would you say the same for Qin Xi Huang?
Yep. Li Shimin is great too.
Actually Peter-Sorry, Brian Griffin here.
In reality, it doesn't have anything to do with the Ming Dynasty itself. It's just that it's so well known, it's the go-to response of people who are faking their interest. It's like saying your favorite dinosaur is a T-Rex, or your favorite author is Tolkien. It's subjugation by gatekeeping, declaring that no true fan would pick such a well known response.
In my book, Faster Than the Speed of Love, I talk a lot about the power of seeing someone for who they truly are. Sometimes things like favorites fall into those categories. And if someone says their favorite drink is water, that doesn't make them less hydrated, just less interesting. Don't settle for shallow, find yourself a girl who loves the right dynasty, just as you do.
Oh really what page is that on? because I read your book and know that isn't in it... nice try Brian but I'm a lot smarther over here because my dad wasn't beating me with Bibles. He wanted me to be a doctor.
The Mongols did have a kind of egalitarianism between themselves, but please explain how this democracy extended to the Chinese.
The Mongols were in no way democratic, not sure what you're on about.
They weren't. Just because I'm from the Chinese dub of the show don't mean I'm somehow smarter than Peter.
Damn those Ming, abolishing democracy in 1368.
All historical dynasties (sans Qing, and Yuan, and possibly Qin but one full generationa a dynasty does not make) were Han, so not sure how that would apply, as the rest (some 80%) of time what we would call "China" wasn't under one political unity, so they shouldn't be referred to as "Chinese Dynasties"
4/6 of the major dynasties is a tough sell for "all". Tang were also highly turkic influenced and had a lot of mixing with Turkic nobles. And in intermediate periods non-Han peoples ruled over large parts of China, such as the Khitan Liao(admittedly ruling a rather small portion of "China Proper" and the Jurchen Jin dynasty. Plus the non-Han rule by groups such as the Di and Xianbei during the Period of Disunion.
tang were not turkic lol The house of Li has no patrilineal turkic blood
Thank you Mr. Washy Washy
He reaving actuarry
And for Europa Universalis 4 players the Ming are the prominent Chinese dynasty in the start date
I heard this whole thing in the bad Peter griffin accent
(then I think I nailed it)
How is ming the basic one when the han dynasty and qing are wayyy more widely known?
In my head I read this with the Andrew Santino asian impression -voice
What democracy
Someone explained it really well in another comment in the replies here. Essentially the Mongols were setting up an elected system similar to how British colonies are run. Then the Han went back to a more autocratic system.
She doesn't like Han cus she's a khan girl /j
That… just sounds like Dracula Flow…
"Those Ming dynasty concubines got me actin unwise, bout to be drowning in the yellow river of pussy with all these tributaries I be collecting"
"Jurchen tribes have me crashing out, thinking they're gonna run my fade in, they gotta be smoking that pure Mughal opium pack to be that delusional"
"Mogols trynna pillage my sack from the north, erected a wall on them bitches so big you can see it from space. Got that Yangtze plug getting kush from the source, put that hindu shit in my pipe got me hollerin mantras. She took my ass down to rice fields and sucked me so hard I learned true virtue. Chopped up 6 peasants for looking at me funny, call that my art of war the way I keep that thang on me , that shit ain't NOTHIN to me man!"
Apparently, Han and Tang dynasties are highly ranked according to Google, the ming dynasty is just known for having a strong centralized government, impressive artistic achievements, and the construction of the Forbidden City.
The Han is a dynasty is known for its long reign and laying the foundation for many aspects of Chinese culture and governance. It developed a strong civil service, advanced science and technology (including paper and seismographs), and established a lasting cultural identity.
While the Tang dynasty is Considered a peak of Chinese civilization, the Tang Dynasty is celebrated for its cosmopolitan culture, advancements in art, literature, science, and technology, and its influence along the Silk Road. It was a period of great prosperity and territorial expansion, with a powerful military.
This is all according to Google so I guess you sayd the boring dynasty? Or the least culturaly impact full dynasty
Probably it. Just a basic answer. Like saying your favorite food is cheese pizza.
Yea, that makes sence, thank you~ how tf did i not remember to use that analogy 😭
I think its an AI copy paste.
Callofduty Points
Song Dynasty was the best one. Though I got some love for the Wei Dynasty for Disney reasons.
I'm Liao 4 life
Well not according to Google and multiple sources it wasn't, like if you think so, good, but I'm just saying what Google and multiple sites say, and comparing them I don't think they are far off, I can see why some are "better"
Ranking dynasties in the first place is a weird thing to do, but the opinion of the other commenter isn't terribly out of the ordinary for people interested in Chinese dynastic history. The Song are seen as a very powerful, advanced, and prosperous dynasty who may have ushered in a new golden age had they not been crushed by the uniquely formidable Mongol armies.
>Very Powerful
>Ruled over the smallest territory of the first 3 major ones and consistently failed to retake Northern China, getting their asses kicked every time.
Suuuuuuuuuuuure.
had iron production equal to 1800's industrial britain. Also Yue Fei was keen to march to huanglongfu it was just the emperor killed em
Han and Tang dynasties are highly ranked according to Google
Google ranking ancient dynasties now? I dont know how to feel about that.
I will say that im a bit disappointed to discover that they removed the star ratings from mountains. The Matterhorn earmed that 4.5/5! You can't just erase that!
...I literally do not care how you feel about me using Google for what it was intended to be used for. How else are you gonna get answers for this? Should I go and hound after the nearest Chinese dynasty enthusiast or the next closest Explorer?
(Edit: The only reason I'm so tilted in this answer is because I literally do not know wtf to tell you... like it's there to be used for that reason, to search up answers quickly and efficiently, that's why people nowadays say, "When in doubt, Google it out"
Saying you googled doesn't really give a good idea of where or who provided the information you're presenting. We've just got to take your word for it.
It's also ok for people to disagree with your point or question where you got the information, it's not a personal attack.
Well then if you're so smart show me an answer, go out there, give me an answer to this question with 50 sources and definitive proof that they are true, like I guess take either my word from it since I did find sources and also took into account Google Ai take, which also gathers information from numerous sources
I mean, if you're gonna question, then please go and find the answer yourself, I just I guess overreacted by calling it a personal attack since this is just what I found, there isn't even any way to co firm any of this cause how tf would you be able to rank fucking time periods... like I might like a military time period more, the next guy might like a period where art was at the forefront or another where philosophy was at the forefront. Look at Greece, for example, which is the best time period of that?
Saying the Ming were not culturally impactful is a bit absurd honestly. I don't have the energy to debate it right now but it's just wrong. A lot of chinese culture and attitudes were solidified under the Ming.
Idk how to say this, but are you illiterate? Fucking read my comment fully and comprehend it before you attack me for saying something that apparently some people on the internet do, I don't do that, I just gave an answer cause it also interested me wtf this dude was on about
They didn't attack you, they argued the source. Stop being so fragile on the internet or you will have a bad time.
I've been on the internet since the early 2010s, and I do consider it them attacking me because of the sole reason that that isn't my opinion and that if you wanna argue source then go and educate Google on where it can get its sources, I'm just placing what Google put out on 20 sites as the ranking and most of them have the Tang as the pinnacle
This is an open forum for discussion
By this you mean reddit or this sub? Cause one is waaaaaaay tf wrong while the other one is questionable
“Said” not “sayd”, it’s funny because this is the second post and third comment that I’ve seen today where you spelled it incorrectly.
If I had a nickel for every time today they misspelled it, I'd have five nickels.
Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened 5 times.
I went to check his posts and there was just a single one and I honestly don't advise anyone visit it
Ok and?
Tang Dynasty is based though
The Ming are probably one of the most culturally impactful ones, it was the eastern equivalent to the Roman Empire, that's why it seems like a generic, plain and boring response, meanwhile dynasties like the Tang, Han, Yuan, Qin, etc are more obscure and demonstrate more interest in bizarre knowledge, a lot of people with general surface interest in history know a fair bit about the Roman Empire, Classical Greece or WW2, but people that have a more serious interest as a hobby tend to prefer fairly more ""obscure"" themes and see those as too normie, the Ming are the Roman Empire of Chinese History
You do understand that comparing 1 Chinese dynasty to a whole history of Roman empire makes 0 sense
The best dynasty was obviously the Song, followed by the Zhou.
This is Tang erasure.
The Tang are over-hyped; I cannot erase a dynasty that is everywhere. That's like saying something is straight-erasure.
They literally invented gunpowder. Blow me.
If you insist
mmmph
(...) /up/
The Tang Dynasty was the period wherw Journey to The West was set in. The monk Xuanzhang is also known as Tang Xuanzang, and he was actually known for the trip to India to bring back knowledge about Buddhism (Albeit without the demons) Also, famout for Wu Zetian.
Nah the Zhou dynasty was so average.
Longest reigning dynasty, spring and autumn period, 1000 schools of thought, seized the mandate of heaven by charioteers and established a bronze monopoly, institutionalized the idea of the mandate of heaven. This all seems average to you?
It's a joke.
average Zhou
Nah, you don't get to hide Zhou slander behind the guise of a joke.
Nah, Han dynasty supremacy
Should have went with the Qing smh
We got a cup of solid gold awaiting us in Heaven
And it will taste divine, my friend
Definitely pillaging this gif like a steppe warrior.
It is the Jurchen way!!
that hair style is ass bruh
Yeah, but they're cool for unexpected hidden blades
(Pretty good Anti-villain in a pretty great movie)
I find that while the Qing dynasty rulership was interesting, what really makes it fun to study is the ways in which the populace reacted to it. How secret societies and organized crime developed in the south and how the relatively weak rulership led to rampant crime and the development of bodyguard agencies in the north. It's really one of the most fascinating times for fans the history of both crime and of martial arts.
I remember saying the Ming were followed up by barbarian rule. My professor went, "Ooh, Han Chinese, are we?"
Cool flag, shit haircuts
Can't question Qing drip like that man
Shu Han. Liu Bei or GTFO
Liu Bei gets glazed in Romance of Three Kingdoms but even by those apocryphal standards he was a freak. Dude is just constantly running around stealing provinces from other people while chiding Cao Cao for doing the same thing, throwing his baby on the ground when he gets mad, straight up eating a lady that one time. And that's the nice version of him.
That throwing baby around is a romance thing. It did not happen in the records. But yes. The author that has made romance of three kingdoms was a liu bei glazer. For the most part. In the records of the three kingdoms liu bei was a poor warlord that was very opportunistic. Unlike cao cao who had a proper up bringing.
lol while liu bei didn't throw his baby but his ancestor did liu bang did through away his child whe he was on the run. Honestly liu bei basicly liu bang with shittier luck.
But Liu Bang, or Emperor Gao of Han, was about 100x better at war and state affairs. One can confidently say he was the third greatest military commander of his era, able to defeat everyone besides Xiang Yu. Even when facing Xiang Yu, Liu Bang was still able to make a strategic victory through minor tactical loss.
Well yeah but he still DID throw his baby out the carriage
She was implying you should say the "Tong" (Tongue) Dynasty.
Apparently they were cunning linguists.
Because the correct answer is xia
underrated comment.
Exactly.
Ming is the most popular and well known dynasty. Most people have heard of a "Ming vase".
He sound like a poser even if the Ming dynasty is the best one.
Sometimes the popular thing is also the best thing...
Song is correct, Tang is an acceptable second choice.
You’re supposed to say Song in this scenario.
Ok but the Qing is a really silly Dynasty.
Not if she is a Tang-phile
My favorite dynasty is the Tang but I really like the Yongle Emperor from the Ming. I learned recently the guy is the Chinese leader in Civ 5 I think, which is neat. Other than the early Ming emperors I’d argue the Ming kinda reversed a lot of good, although the yuan were quite bad as far as rulers go for the majority of China, as they put Han Chinese at the bottom of a totem pole in their own country. I don’t know if this is relevant but I’d say the Ming are kinda boring as far as dynasties go in pop culture as despite actually being quite interesting their collapse is very rarely even acknowledged within western history spheres and it’s more put on Qing rise than Ming fall.
Wu Zetian was the leader in Civ 5
Wu zetian, Qing, Qin shi Huang, Kublai Khan, and Yongle appeared in Civ 6
My B, typo mctypoface. I played the hell out of China in Civ 5, I think I was just 13 and thought wu zetian was hot, but never got 6
No worries. Yongle badongle is also freaking goos elader to play
Could it be because she’s super tall, so she’s asking about a basketball dynasty or sports dynasty?
This is exactly the joke. She is really tall he is short. It is a reference to Yao Ming who is 7'6.
A better answer would be the Tang dynasty where Wu Zitian became China's only female empresses to rule by her own rights.
She's not considered the Tang since apparently she established her own dynasty (Zhou Dynasty or the Wu Zhou Dynasty(historians added her surname to avoid confusion with numerous other Zhou Dynasty))
Its the "I learned about history from strategy games" answer because of how prominent the Ming are in Europa Universalis. The Qing are if a few games as well but pretty much everyone know that the Qing sucked as they were responsible for the collapse of imperial rule in China. Han and Tang are the "correct" answers with Song, Yuan, and Qin being decent "hot take" options.
What isn‘t wrong with them?!
Nothing wrong with them at all, it is just that it is like answering i love vanilla or chocolate to a ice cream enthusiast.
I‘m obviously not biased in favour of anyone specifically cough, cough
But on a more serious note: the Qing dynasty isn’t that vanilla a choice. Today‘s somewhat positive image of them is based on historical reevaluation from the 90s. Before that, they were misconstrued as THE example of „foreign invaders“ and as „antimodernist“.
Also, I LUV vanilla and chocolate 🍧
Only noticed your PFP after you said the whole biased line.
Lol that totally flew over my head.
😂😂😂 I actually love that! Gave me a good laugh today, sincerely thank you
Office Hi Yah, Quahog's First Ninja Cop, here. The correct answer is the Qing, because that's where all the Shaw Brothers movies are set.
Yuan Dynasty fans sound off!
It’s a trick question the right answer is Republic Era always
The proper answer is the Tang.
The Taiping heavenly kingdom also deserves a honorable mention.
This is a trick question. In my opinion, the Spring and Autumn period is one of the most interesting periods in Chinese history.
I mean ming is kinda of a disappointment. They had so much potential and they squandered it. Early ming dynasty was broken, and honestly had so much potential. Massive fleets that could have changed world history. What do they do? Squander it, and get into civil wars constantly while neglecting their ship building potential. Anyway for me it's the zhou dynasty considering it's probably the most important of the dynasties, and spurned a lot of school of thought. Also had civil war as per usual but I guess that's most Chinese dynasties.
Is that her?
Tang dynasty was the more romantic one. Where poetry flourished.
[deleted]
also how the emperors and secret agents ruled the country by using fear and ultra surveillance their government officials
Should have gone with Zhou dynasty
Probably she heard minge
The basketball player
Xia founded the zodiac so they didn't claim any specific animal from the zodiac.
Dragon symbolism started with the Shang Dynasty the second dynasty.
Which leads many to argue the zodiac animal associated with dynasties.
However I'm pretty sure every other Dynasty claims the dragon as well?
Meaning if it's a zodiac related hate? They all kind of inflate their own standing. Except the Xia Dynasty.
Actually the Shang Dynasty used "dragon tamers" which was apparently using "dragon" bones kinda throwing them on the floor for fortune telling sort of thing not a "toothless" how to train your Dragon sort of situation.. which I dislike a lot. But at least Shang had some magical connection to dragons. In as much of a way you can when dragons aren't real and neither is magic.
The Ming Dynasty on the other hand are just imposters from a zodiac standpoint.
Why am I even choosing a hill to die on here? I'm not even upset about it.. okay I'm upset that people keep saying the dragon tamers weren't palace employees who trained actual dragons. Because I don't even care if it's true. I want that to be the answer.
In a time we can never revisit or completely confirm, maybe just maybe the Shang Dynasty and actually if they had it so did the Xai Dynasty, they had trained dragons.
If rather die on that hill than something like Ming Dynasty should be a horse or cat or something.
Don't listen to any of these people the only dynasties even worth considering as best are Yuan and Qing and I won't hear otherwise.
Yuan Dynasty
How does everyone feel about the Manchu Qing?
Qin
At least he didn’t say Qin
In this house, only Han and Yuan are acceptable
I'm guessing the ming dynasty is the same as saying Rommel or McArthur as your favorite WW2 generals
Aka The basic bitch answer because they are the most well known generals of WW2
Paradox Petah here. Now you see other people have already said it's basic. But also, Ming are the starting chinese dynasty in the strategy game Europa Universalis 4. So the girl thought he only knew history from map games.
The correct answer is Xia, by the way.
Because the Yuan dynasty is the greatest and most Chinese of all the dynasties
The Ming dynasty brought China's downfall by instating isolationism and nepotism. Much of China's success was from its meritocracy and intellectual exchange with the world but that was brought to an end with the Ming who lost to the Qing. Thus they repeated the mistakes of the Song who fell to the Mongols centuries prior, and spent their time preaching Chinese supremacy while failing to adapt the army or support the peasantry.
If it's of any importance, women's rights or influence only really flourished in the Tang and Han dynasties.
Wu Sanguis Iron Horsemen at shanhaiguan could have held if the government didnt collapse
Saying the Ming (alongside the Qing) is as normie as it gets for history nerds, they are the 2 most famous and relevant dynasties, its like asking someone what's your favorite ancient european empire and the person answering with "Roman Empire"
Imagine if someone asks you whats your favorite pokemon and you say pikachu
Tang is the right answer
I'm more of a 'warring states' bloke myself.
Ming dynasty is basic. I'd have picked Duck
A lot of people are explaining the joke as about the dynasties themselves. Not really about that entirely.
The ACTUAL joke is the fact that this is a weird thing for a man to be flirting with a woman about in a workplace in the first place; and then it's funny that she has such a strong opinion about a specific dynasty, an obscure topic for the average person, yet he still loses his chance to get with her, which is a totally relatable topic to every man.
i think of the qing dynasty because i did a big thing about the battle of the muddy flat and the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace
The correct answer is the Tang Dynasty, the OG silk road, and life was just sweet for the Chinese lads at the time. Only a noob would say ming, that boys out.
I'm not usually one for literati elitism but the Tang Dynasty is where it's at. I could settle for the Western Han or the Northern Song in 2nd and 3rd place. That would've been my answer - hands down.
Qing, Han woulda been a better choice
Idk i guess Ming Dynasty is the most common and basic answer? Like how if a dinosaur enthusiast asks what your favourite dinosaur is and you say T-Rex
she must be a qing enthusiast
Lu Bu best dynasty
i think the comedy is in the absurdity of it all.
In my experience, the most popular dynasty among Chinese women is the Tang. Besides being a period of poetry and cultural flowering, women were more empowered, and a fuller female figure was in vogue as well.
China's only legitimate reigning female emperor, Wu Zetian (r. 690-705 CE), is often mentioned in conjunction with the Tang dynasty, though her reign is referred to as the Wu Zhou dynasty and considered a separate interregnum. The Tang dynasty resumed when Wu Zetian was finally deposed at age 81, in favor of her weak son, Emperor Zhongzhong, with de facto power wielded by his wife, Empress Wei, who appears to have poisoned her husband in an attempt to imitate her mother-in-law's coup. She was aided by their daughter, Princess Anle. Both were deposed and killed in a counter-coup by Zhongzhong's sister, Princess Tianping and their nephew, Li Longji. Princess Tianping flexed her power by removing the collar of office of Wei's puppet emperor, and leading her elder brother, Emperor Ruizong, by the hand to the throne, and she became the literal power behind the throne by listening and advising emperor from behind a curtain. She was hoping to have similar control over Li Longji, but he turned out to have a spine. He succeded to the throne as Emperor Xuanzong, caught his aunt in an assassination plot and forced her to commit suicide.
This may look like a marathon comment, but this is the condensed kiddie version of Tang history. The Tang noblewomen were empowered, ambitious and played 4D Game of Thrones to the bone. Cersei got nothin'.
edit: typos
Tang dynasty best time for women (in the past). Could do donkey racing and another sport.
I like the song dynasty because gunpowder
Zhou dynasty or Gtfo!
Biggest flex answer would imho be "Sixteen kingdoms of the five barbarians", but you have to hope she better not oress you further on that topic afterwards ^
Three kingdoms gang.
Tang Dynasty because she likes juice
I mean, Tang, Han, Zhou, maybe even Qin would probably have been a better choice. The only more wrong answer would’ve been the Qing.
Where Han not racist against everyone else?
its because its kinda ming
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