Piracy
These are the companies that oppose your right to owning software (EU)
Discussion
Lets not sugar coat it.
Its every company and we still have a uphill battle to fight over this.
CDPR
They literally made GOG, the only platform where you can truly own the game.
If CDPR had a vested interest in pushing down this bill, they absolutely would. They‘re still a company.
They don‘t produce any massive always-online games like pretty much every other of those companies here and probably dont aim to do so, a side step onto the card game market aside.
GOG is fine, but you don’t truly 'own' a game there any more than you do on, say, Steam. Sure, you get a cute installer, but if you buy the same DRM-free game on Steam, you can do everything with it that you can with a GOG game. You don’t even need the Steam client to play it after downloading. You can archive it, create an installer from the game files, and so on. If GOG lets you 'own' a DRM-free game you’ve licensed from them, Steam does the exact same thing with the DRM-free games they license. Both platforms grant licenses, not ownership, the main difference is GOG’s marketing emphasizes 'DRM-free,' while Steam’s DRM-free options are less highlighted, and GOG and Steam share a significant portion of their DRM-free catalogs
I don't know why you are downvoted. You are right. They only sell you a licence. You have the installer, which you can keep forever, but if they revoke the licence you are technically breaking the copyright law if you still install it.
That's a fact, everyone can read their terms. No downvotes will change that unfortunately.
That doesn't mean they aren't preferable to other platforms when it comes to buying games.
Edit: typos
For me if i have the game on my 40tb hdd, that mean i own the game )).
That's true, I sleep better when I have a copy of the game I enjoy on my NAS, preferable in a form that doesn't EVER require any kind of client to play it...
You run games off a NAS? That's crazy, what are your load times like?
Oh no, I only store my installers/repacks/whatever there, for the future. I have a regular nvme disc for the games im currently playing.
I think he meant he stores them on there. Running them directly from a NAS would be stupid.
It's not that far fetched to do, I've got a few terabytes of nvme storage in my server now, and both that and my desktop are on a 10gb fiber, so long as the server isn't trans-coding a bunch of plex streams it would load nearly as fast as if it was local storage, if I dropped a couple of 40gb network cards into the server and desktop it would be nearly fast enough to saturate a samsung 980 pro, and easily max out lesser nvme drives. Then there's this really cool thing call nvme over fiber channel. If you have the cash to burn you could mount nvme drives from a server to a host device as a local nvme device. It's near cutting edge and with enough drives you can saturate 100gb/sec network cards.
10gb fiber goddamn! I do okay on my 1 gb fiber with a mac mini running a few basic media-oriented containers, but gonna need a couple raises before I can delve into the higher end stuff lol - very cool though!
10gb is getting pretty cheap honestly, eBay can get you some great deals, especially if you don't might power hungry or noisy equipment. I think I paid $50 for my first quanta 10gb switch.
And thats the point of gog
Just read my previous comment, gog isn't a knight in a shiny armor, riding around on it's white horse, it's just another licensing business.
"The point of gog" is to spin their licensing business around the DRM-free games and act like they sell you something tangible, but in reality there's literally NO DIFFERENCE if you buy cyberpunk on gog or steam (other than having cutsie installer from gog), because if you want to archive it, both versions are DRM-free and you won't need any additional clients to play either one of them.
So sure, gog has installer that gives you an illusion of actually owning a game, but it doesnt matter whether you buy DRM free game from, you will be able to archive it very easily, and if gog revoke your license, you installer will be nothing more than illegal game copy. It's all about illusion and convenience, because the actual ownership and ability to replay the game in 50 years, when gogs, steams and whatnot will be 6 feet under doesn't change, no matter where you bought your license to play.
But since GOG has very limited library, and most of the games I enjoy have some sort of DRM attached, my NAS is full of delicious repacks and nice, clean cracked versions.
Yeah but who gives a fuck about illegal owned games or if gog will revoke their license? In my country police departments use cracked windows on their pc's xdxd
you're really reaching. if they give me a DRM free installer then yes I do own it and yes, it's much different than steam
It's all about illusion and convenience, because the actual ownership and ability to replay the game in 50 years, when gogs, steams and whatnot will be 6 feet under doesn't change, no matter where you bought your license to play.
what a terrible argument. its no different than buying games on cd's in the 90s. if you scratch your disc then you can't play it anymore either so I guess you never really "owned" it
The point is that if they revoke your license they can go fuck themselves. If they revoke your license on steam you are SOL
May as well just pirate the game, you’re breaking the same laws either way.
Maybe US laws. Someone can't revoke my ownership of something after the fact in any other civilised nation. they can only stop me from downloading it again. For which in australia, I now have grounds for a refund regardless of time passed.
Real
I don't know why you are downvoted.
Because the way he worded it is like he's trying to put it in negative light... while in reality it's the opposite. It makes both GOG and Steam shining beacons of gamer rights. (sic, gamers rise up)
Oh, the steam fans really like to shit on GOG. GOG at least give you an installer on their site and you don't need to install their launcher.
PC Gamer's list is unfortunately incomplete. It should also include the subsidiary VGP (Videogames Poland, previously known as Stowarzyszenie Producentów i Dystrybutorów Oprogramowania Rozrywkowego), who is listed as a member of Videogames Europe on their "who we are" page.
VGP in turn counts CD Projekt Red as one of their members, so CDPR is a member of VGE by proxy. That doesn't necessarily mean they voted on on VGE's response to SKG, but that's part of the point. It's a deliberately opaque political lobby.
No ArenaNet
Valve (Steam) is also not on that list!
If they keep opposing 'Stop Killing Games' then it's time we 'Stop Buying Games' and sail the high seas.
the thing is most braindead people screaming about boycot but they still buying the product anyway. thats why company keep doing what they want because "you scream but you dont act" wich doesnt bother them because money keep coming to their pocket. you can found this type of people literally anywhere.
Not really, its just that even if 10000 people boycott there will be 100x who don't even know about it and buy. The problem is unaware people and people who do not care, not the ones here on reddit
"Just vote with your wallet" only really works if there is plenty of competition to make better choices. I can confidently never buy a HP printer ever again because Epson also sells printers and they are at least less scummy about it.
If I want to play a specific Ubisoft game because the game really speaks to me, then there is no competition. There isn't some indie developer out there that just so happens to have created basically the same game. "Just play different games" doesn't really work.
That's why, -shocker- you need to have strong regulation in place that forces companies to not be assholes.
Wouldn’t surprise me if gamers attachment to “achievement” and “gamer score” drives some to continue to acquire games through official channels.
The great pirate era is coming, the one piece is real. In this case the one piece being a piracy software with everything you could need on it
If buying a game isn't owning it, then Pirating a game isn't stealing it.
If buying a game was owning, piracy still wouldn't be stealing
just used a front-loader for all my dodi and fitgirl games and i just realised im sitting on 101 games that i think maybe 3of which i actually bought. (l4d 1,2 for like a dollar)
plus 7 of those "games" are actually emulators for ps1,2,3 xbox, switch, gamecube and snes...so i got enough to last me a while
- Activision Blizzard
- Microsoft
That's just Microsoft twice.
ZeniMax is Microsoft thrice.
Where is Adobe?
Was about to ask the same thing. Especially since LTT shared how they couldn't even cancel an a simple subscription
Because Adobe does not publish games. This list of so called "opposing companies" is just a list of companies that are working together with VideoGamesEurope, group which main purpose is to help companies publish games in Europe and comply with appropriate laws and stuff. After VideoGamesEurope released a statement about StopKillingGames (which is not plainly negative per se, just stating facts that it's a tough job for a lot of companies and that they're open to discussion) people post all the members in VideoGamesEurope.
Oh yeah, fking brain fart moment lol, but fuck em all the same!
I don't think I'd want to own Netflix's software. That Widevine DRM dogshit used to cause my entire PC to stutter everytime a new episode would load.
The seas are free and better quality
The difference is that Netflix is explicitly set up as a "subscription to see" (SVOD) services rather than selling license to "own" movies and series.
Aren't like 80% of these owned by either Tencent or Nintendo?
Who would have expected China and Japan to align on something?
More like Tencent and Microsoft. Nintendo doesn't own that many studios.
Aren't like 80% of these owned by either Tencent or Nintendo?
Uhm no? These are literally majority Western companies.
Off the top of my head, Niantic and Riot Games are both Tencent
Roblox is 49% owned by tencent too
can someone explain tdlr why supercell. Supercell has only f2p games with transactios that speeds up your progress. As well as Riot.
Because VGE (the whole group) is older than Stopkillinggames.
This post is just a karma farm.
Because list is complete bs. Video Games Europe is a 30 year old group dealing with tons of stuff in the industry, now every company in that group is targeted by uninformed redditors who will follow anyone who shares their general attitude towards "something".
I guess there its about in-game purchases
doesn't every android game contains microtransitions at this point?
Yes, unfortunately yes.
I guess, because you can invest tons of money into their games through microtransactions just for supercell to shutdown the servers at the end.
Good I'll pirate their products more
While I agree that the right to own movement is a good thing, the idea that you're preaching about it in a subreddit that is focused on not even paying for it in the first place is fucking hilarious.
Even in the tiniest chance that the gaming world changes and players get the right to own their games, none of you will be paying for it anyway lol.
Its cause they go around and post it in every reddit except the actual SKG subreddits, cause they would get kicked out of those for these posts.
Its just a karma farm and people keep falling for it.
Even valve does but it's not on the list. They sell licences which are revokable
But to be clear: Valve provides the Server software for their games that have multiplayer (Like TF2). That's what stop killing games is mostly about.
Yes they also sell licences in the modern sense but they aren't like those companies who let their games die.
Yes I'll give credit where credit is due, they don't shutter and bury their legacy games.
You do realize that Valve is sort of a marketplace for the companies above to offer their games in a single place. I do get that valve is not a perfect company, but their recent decision to delist any games that include any form of ad is pro consumer in my opinion. Tho they did sell licences for L4D2 and half life so can't defend them there.
It’s not as black and white as being pro or contra consumer. One company can be in favour of one thing while being against another.
What is contra consumer? Is that like a code name for a consumer who cheats or something cause contra is famous for it's 30 lives code?
*anti-consumer
Ok thanks
Contra is Spanish for counter/opposition. In this context, it means anti.
Technically, the marketplace you're talking about is Steam. Valve, the developer, does make games and sell licenses to them on steam
Yes and not. As somone mention. Steam is just a marketplace for selling. AND most importantly they doing a lot of things in your favor. Return windows sales that high your sometimes you steel from developer that good price is. Carying about your safty (multipe virus games takedown) only real caviat i have with valve is they tend to not communicate everything needed. Other then that. One of the best companies tbh.
Yeah, tell me you've never had a steam account without telling me directly.
Valve will allow you to keep all delisted games. I should know, I have plenty of them and the highest profile of them is Duke Nukem Megaton Edition.
People keep parroting the licenses are revokable. That is true, but that is not something valve would EVER do. That statement by itself only works when talking about timmy tencent, or EA, or Ubisoft (with their own launchers)
Valve does NOT fight against right to ownership. Stop trying to be a "cool" cynical high school kid who just discovered the word.
You're absolutely right.
But the valve doesn't end the support and make it unplayable. They might delist game, and licence is for other vendor policies right? Not the valve.
iirc binaries stay on your machine. I buy single player games with no DRM, they stay permanently on my disk, no foul
Roblox and square enix too?
There's more
These companies are part of Video Games Europe, a group that put out a statement that kind of opposes the Stop Killing Games petition.
ftfy. I know it's not as clickbaity, but it's closer to reality!
(These organizations have not come out and explicitly stated anything of the sort. Video Games Europe put out a statement, and these companies are part of that group. But nothing has suggested any kind of consensus or collaboration in said statement.)
This group has existed long before the SKG petition kicked off. This is clickbait.
You didn't put Pirate Software on here.
It’s literally every business software business. Everything is SaaS
I know. But this is a group that recently sent out a letter of defiant opposition. We have to work with what we got.
He asked me why is it so relevant? (It's a genuine question.)
Bandai would be first. Nothing says gacha game like milking everything till there’s nothing left in the ip and then shutting down the game cause cant milk it anymore
i will never put my pirate flag down like forever.
Where is Rockstar Games on that picture?
T2
Now I can see it, that picture is pretty pixalated.
That's like all of them.
If buying is not owning, something something...
Ah yes Epic, so full of big words vs Apple to fighting for consumer rights, but only when it does not concern their own operations...
So basically......the entire gaming industry then?
I mean, between all of those companies listed, they probably own 95% of game studios currently still in existence.
Funny how Steam isn't there
"Of course, developers and publishers will argue players aren't buying a product but a license to access a game, but that's not how many players look at it."
I mean if it said "rent" instead of "purchase" the publishers would have an argument. But it doesn't. They're doing a bait-and-switch, they sell games but then change their mind.
What it says in the fine print doesn't hold up legally.
I mean good luck trying to fight multiple decades of precedence and something that companies have been to court over in the past.
The only one I can understand is Roblox because think of how tedious that would be. The others have no excuse
Not like they are making a new game anytime soon. This wont apply on any current games that have released or have completed development.
Doesn’t every experience count as a single game? Games that they don’t really make but the community does and they just moderate it?
I believe netflix also has some right to oppose, since they need to renew licenses for the shows constantly, thats why a lot of the shows that THEY havent made are no longer on netflix
It's not about series. SKG (Stop Killing Games) is about video games.
same thing even for games, they need to renew licenses to keep the games on, had it been games they made themselves it would be different
"If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing"
F*ck 'em. We will sail the high seas.
I am surprised by exactly zero of these.
Are people online really only just figuring out that multi million dollar companies maybe aren't very ethical in 2025?!
did we really think giant corps cared about us or our rights? they care about money. that's capitalism. ALL companies are or will end up like this. stop having loyaty towards them.
Riot games
Why am I not surprised? Lmao
Shittiest company in the world.
Definitely one of the worst imo. I like their games and all — absolutely not their community… But holy fuck is their stuff overpriced. Don’t even get me started on whatever they’ve been introducing with prestige skins, the gatcha thing, etc. I’ve sadly bought one skin in the past, and it wasn’t even on my main account so that’s an L.
I’m also pretty sure they don’t have standalone currency packs that have enough for anything. Like you’d literally need to buy at least two for a skin, which idk how that’s legal anywhere… You just end up with a little amount and then end up repeating the cycle if you don’t leave it as is at a small amount of currency. Actual bullshit.
And people will defend it like their lives depends on it.
Honestly, this message coming from this sub does more to damage the movement than help. This just looks like 'loosen regulations so we can steal more games'
so pretty much everyone?
Checks games developed and published by Epic Games in the last 5 years...
Eh, not that huge of a loss.
ESL
FACEIT
????
These companies dont make software, do they? Just cheap trashy tournament platform
None of those companies got even $1 from me at least the past 20 years.
Unfortunately, most people are spineless NPC. This is the problem. Companies just see spineless people enjoying eating feces, so companies sold them feces.
Epic games acts all righteous with Apple as if they aren’t just fighting over who milks their customers more
aren't like half of these companies owned or at least very heavily influenced by microsoft? and i bet people will still absolutely dick suck microsoft for all their decisions.
And none of these surprised anyone.
activision, ubisoft & EA
how shocking!
That's odd, it's all the ones I hate the most.
Let's stop using "their" software!!1!1!11!
(Written on windows while Playing League, Switch is on the table too and I am playing PoGo on Phone next to it...)
F***k me... I can't do this
How the fuck did zeni max get on there?
All the usual suspects.
False: pretty much all big companies oppose your right to own software AND most companies also try to oppose to your right to own freaking HARDWARE like for example printers and dishwashers that need internet access and such.
In other words: the usual suspects.
So all gaming companies. Interesting.
Thanks! I'll never buy anything from any of these again.
(except for ESO plus)
Been a while since I played ESO, how is it these days? any fun to return to?
Enhhh somewhat better, somewhat worse. There's some strange new "season pass" dlc model that people are iffy about. But QOL is doing great right now. There's a housing vault for storing up to 500 stacks of housing items which is really great.
Gog.com acitvely support your right
Dont want to be disrespectfull but tell me something IDK xddd. You just have to see what kind of products each of them sells.
Valve has a stake in this and yet strangely I don't see their name.
I mean, valve is already doing what stop killing games want to achieve. You can play their games locally or set up your own private server, so I think valve is in support of the movement but not just vocal about it....
Nah. Most Valve games support free community servers. They also offer free tooling, even source code for some of them. And they still let you download and play games that got delisted 10+ years ago.
So which companies does not 😂😅?
Unsurprisingly
Surprised not to see AutoDesk on that list.
Wait Roblox is in this? Do specific Roblox games shutting down count for this law?
If so is Roblox gonna get the fine or the Devs of the game?
I don't understand why they are here
What I have said from the start. As much as you get signatures, this has to pass and you are fighting billionares that can basically straight up go to the politicians while you are sitting at your house without knowing who the fuck or how this goes to voting, debate,etc
The only reason this might pass is because EU sometimes gets very pro-consumer and against companies, out of nowhere.
As long as buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing!
who's surprised
Not a surprise. But we will get what we want. Eventually
What's the EU's history of not bowing down to money?
I assume it's better than the US?
kinda a shame to see sega on the list....
Its not exactly the Right to own that bothers them. They just want to do anything for more money. I don't think they care about You owning a copy they cant take from you. Its Just that they can use that non ownership to make more profit. Shut down a game and release a sequel that people need to buy if they still want more of the game.
They would gladly sell you a 50k usd license that gives you more ownership. But no one will pay that price for ownership when the digital store that holds the license can shutdown and you loose access anyway. Because the store is verifying your license is valid. Because they verify your ownership
It's not about not wanting you to own stuff it's just that it's not profitable. They have no personal feelings at all. It's just business
Not surprising to see all big console players here (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo). Really, none of these are a surprise except for Riot.
A third of those are just Microsoft lol
Oh gosh! Ya dont say.....man if they are this hard up against it you know it must be a great thing! One part of me cant help but chuckle that their greatest competition in the market might be the past!
BUT I’M A TOWNHALL 16!
So, all of them. Sigh. Need more boycotting with a clear message to pressure these lovely people to treat consumers better
Honestly... It´s time to teach them a lesson....or go full Indy !!!
damn it not WB! fuck! , they have Batman so they have a key to my heart already
The only company that surprised me was Riot Games. Corporate greed has no end
SEGA....don't do this to me!
Really sad to see SUPERCELL here. Netflix, EPIC, EA, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony.. all of those assholes were expected. But Supercell were mostly nice from what I've heard. Maybe there's something I've missed.
Steam ?
I may be the first to say thing but what about incorporate an end of life service that allows peer to peer networking, and then updating the eula to state we no longer have any responsibility with what you do with the game online
I would like to see list of companies which don't...
I hate that I CANNOT get a refund for Clash of Clans, f them Supercell
just joking.. aight
Waiting for GTA 6 to release so i can wait another year for the PC port to release and then wait another year for a crack to drop so i can fight against AAA and their morals
One year for a crack? Thats too Gta 6? Won't take more than a week or more
Red Dead Redemption 2 took over a year to get cracked.
Why's that? What made it so difficult?
probably DRMs. I believe Roackstar uses Arxan which is a competitor to Denuvo. To put to perspective, Persona 5 Royal which came out in 2019 has still been uncracked for pc because of Denuvo
honestly not surprised if they go with denuvo. cracking that has been dead now since empress has gone insane and unless someone as smart can come to the scene, denuvo tittles are never going to be cracked
Wasn't she always insane?
I'm pretty sure insanity is a prerequisite for cracking denuvo.
As far as I remember the few other people able to crack denuvo weren't as clinically insane as her
Or at least weren't so public about it
That is just how denuvo operates. They use a little bit of warp magick to make anyone who attempts to crack it lose their marbles
apparently it's less about smarts and just a long and tedious process and no one wants to do it.
yep its like that one mini game in mario party where you have 4 or 5 different keys and 3 doors. and you have to unlock all the doors and repeat for like a thousand stages or so.
Who is this Empress? Where can I read more about her/him/it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_(cracker)
Thank you!
P5 Royal PC came out in 2022, but yes.
Wow. Intersting to know thx
On the bright side, there's multiple consoles you can emulate it on. And also denuvo is now a subscription which means its less likely to stay there forever... as its quite expensive. Most of the denuvo forever games are older. But I think there's some exceptions to that.
It almost works against the crackers in a way because by the time you've put in all the effort to make a crack or bypass, there's a good chance it will just be removed by then, when sales fall to the point of the subscription no longer making sense financially.
That's fascinating! Thanks for the explanation. TBH I never pirate games, bc I like to support the industry (many of my friends are devs), but I can afford to do that bc I'm not spending money on movies, TV, etc ;)
Denuvo is hard to crack and there are barely any proficient crackers left. The last one was a complete nutjob and went insane.
The days of "cracks done in a few days" are over.
Empress has always been insane, that was not a development. Extremely fascinating character honestly, in a very "morbid curiosity" kind of way. Obviously an extremely talented person but genuinely more insane than the Joker.
The story developed with time though, from empress the outsider cracker from hacker group xyz to transphobe cult telegram master "hiding" extremist messages in her NFOs is quite something.
I really really wonder how much of this was actually real and just one person going insane vs what happened in real life.
I have the theory that empress at the beginning might have been a group and then one person took over and went nuts with it and the other didnt care for whatever reason.
Wouldnt surprise me if we'd saw a netflix docu one day.
Her NFOs were always unhinged as fuck though, there was just an insane amount of spotlight on her during the whole Hogwarts Legacy arc and it reached more people. The Telegram arc expanded from there, probably not unrelated to the fact that her Reddit got taken down and she was forced to do everything via Telegram.
I keep seeing people refer to empress as 'her' but isn't it a team of multiple people?
Who cares if she was crazy. I never understood the drama around her.
I want my free games idc whatever twisted ideals the cracker has.
I'll just nod and take the freebie
I do except GTA 6 to be cracked sooner though. RDR2 may be massively popular, but GTA 6 is probably the most anticipated game of all time. The demand and effort put into cracking it will be huge.
One person cracked Red Dead 2. If it wasn't for Empress, it probably would have remained uncracked. Plenty of Denuvo games still are.
A TRILLION people can "want" a GTA 6 crack. But "demand" and "popularity" don't crack games. Very intelligent people, with a very specific skill set, crack games.
You may think this would incentivise someone to learn to crack it, but that would be a bad assumption. You have to purchase a game first, to be able to crack it.
So even if there is some kid out there capable of it, and they have all the time and knowledge in the world, if they're broke, they can't even start the "cracking" process.
And if they do manage to pay for a copy of the game, well, their need is now gone. They don't need a crack. They own the game.
really? own it? In 2025?
I love the "Give no quarter" but we should change it to quarters XD
My currency doesn't even have quarters but it's still a nice tag :)
neither does mine. guess im on pence, cents and ør haha
I'd say this is perfectly put. also, its quite sad that empress is really gone from the cracking scene. years and years more wait to endure.
"won't take more than a week...or more"
Lmao
Dude i remember waiting for the gta5 crack. I had the game downloaded, took me 5 days. Then going on the internet everything day searching for it. Going to sketchy Chinese sites to download the crack and then finally play it at 25fps. It was a blast
waiting for GTA 6 so I can wait infinitely because they enabled battleye and they will never send a message to battleye to enable linux support
I bet it will be able to be emulated before the native PC release. However the required specs will be high.
No problem if it's 1 (probably less) for the PC version, or 2 or more to crack it, the game will be with us for the next 10 years, they will do the same as V and GTAO giving it support for several years.
Whoever is desperate or anxious to play it right away will play it on console, the rest will wait on PC.