ProgrammerHumor
reactIsNativeNow
I don't really follow what Microsoft do, but I saw https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1ludlky/this_is_just_a_lot_of_computer_jargon_that_i_dont/ and sure enough, it's not just someone shitposting.
I can just imagine the "well it's good enough for Windows" arguments now, any time someone mentions that using web tech for a native app is always going to have performance issues.
Discussion
Just the recommended section, not the entire thing apparently.
What the fuck
That's even worse
Is that why my fucking start menu freezes for 20 seconds when I want to start searching for something?
Yes.
You can turn that off btw
I want it to search. That's the only way I use the start menu. I just don't know why it lags so hard.
Unless you're talking about some other behavior in which case I'm curious about turning it off!
You can turn off where it searches the web I mean. When it's just local apps I don't have any issues with lag
I think I have but I'll check.
I suspect its major malfunction is with the fact that I run an adblocker.
That sounds like a different problem, mine has zero lag on searching.
"it works on my machine"
Maybe if it was the exception rather than the norm but that's not the case.
Responds to anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence and all the kids who took one cs class are downvoting you? This sub is a mess
I dared to say that something might not be the fault of Windows 11 and the computer-related subreddits hate it if you say anything about Windows 11 that isn't declaring it the spawn of Satan.
and you can't even disable it.
I have recommended disabled... right click on the start menu and open the settings? I mean it says "Recommended" still but it never populates.
The recommended section that does not obey GPOs telling it to fuck off, because of course.
From my understanding React Native is not a web technology. It doesn't ship electron or anything like that. Instead under the hood it calls native functions for building GUIs.
I was under that impression as well yeah. I've seen people say the windows Start menu causes cpu spikes but I'm not sure that's related to the use of react native if it's done properly?
Devs have a tendency to do things that works like they like, maintainable on their standards and is structured as they like. Wrapper languages create a layer of obstruction that prevent devs knowing performance costs of what they are doing, it's 100x worse with fully async logic like GUI and React.
Clean and structured code on a "wrapper" framework can and will likely lead to extremely suboptimal native executions, the heavier the wrapper is, the more "good, clean and maintainable" code will result in atrocious performance. React basic logic is completely alien to OS GUI native basic logics, doing "barebone" react is already a heavy native logic.
Wrapper languages have a very high likelyhood of hiding the correct and straight forward design patterns, in most cases the optimized and simple native patterns will be a tricky, hacky code and incompatible with other "normal" components if attempted to be produced through the wrapper.
Ah, a smart person! Got a question or two because I know nothing about React Native. Ive written some stuff with it but only to edit layout within a larger team in a pinch.
If its just the recommendation section, is it that bad? Sounds like they would just sort and analyze index usage statistics, and plop them up on the screen with a map.
Another question: my understanding is that react native is useful for cross platform development. Is this ever useful for just one layout component on one platform?
Is this ever useful for just one layout component on one platform?
I made an Android only RN app. Not having to touch Java/Kotlin and google APIs that get deprecated 2 weeks after they get released is a big plus.
Interesting. Have you had any issues with React Native's support of the APIs you mention?
In a way I think that is more easily maintainable as you're relying on the React Native teams rather than yourself, but I would worry about niche issues...
Speaking of optimization, you could have expressed all that in a single sentence.
I read somewhere that the start menu was slow due to the search component
The CPU spike has nothing to do with React at all
react is plenty fast enough to have instantaneous response times in almost all UI use cases
bad code is bad, no matter the technology
Plenty fast in the context of multi-core multi-gigahertz systems strapped with gigs of RAM to waste.
Actually fast code on modern hardware looks like sorcery. This has been true since the beginning of computing.
No, it's plenty fast in general and multicore hardly matters cause it's running single threaded in a JS runtime; and JS runtimes are plenty fast themselves even on 20 year old hardware.
It's hardly different from coding your UI in Lua
at the end of the day React is just doing a bunch of primitive value comparisons between two UI trees with lightweight structs; it's also not particularly heavy on the RAM either. V8 allocates 10s, on bad days 100s of bytes per UI element - this isn't any different from Java, which ran plenty fine on hardware from before the 2000s; and even your V8 runtime itself takes in the low 10s of MBs of memory - and it's not like your alternatives would have no runtime, since you're not gonna write the windows start menu with an immediate mode C GUI talking directly to the GPU
people really do confuse React the Runtime with badly coded websites pulling in 10s of MBs of unminified, non-React JS libraries;
Java did not run "plenty fine" on pre 2000s hardware, it was slow, very slow.
"It's hardly different from coding your UI in Lua" That is also bad and slow.
"since you're not gonna write the windows start menu with an immediate mode C GUI talking directly to the GPU"
Why not, thats exactly what they should be doing, its supposed to be the fastest GUI in the whole system. Instead we got this slow, buggy, abstraction layer that doesn't match anything else in the os and while technically doing more, is less useful than what it replaced.
it's always fascinating to see how people dunk on scripting UIs and especially react native
yet nobody complains about the performance of Skyrim's UI, or that of the entire Playstation OS, or Microsoft Excel, or Instagram, or Ubunut's Python shell
It's just until they see a badly performing UI and then find out that it's react native and then it's React that is to blame
You don't write the UI in immediate mode C because it's slow to do so, error prone, and all that headache saves you 20 MB of RAM and nothing else, at the cost of vastly increasing your chances for security vulnerabilities and crashes.
React is neither inherently slow nor buggy. And it "not matching the rest of the OS" has nothing whatsoever to do with React, React literally does not render the UI, it just manages its state and triggers the render of native elements.
Petition to change the name of Canonical’s distro to Ubunut
Skyrim's UI is so notorious that the mod to replace it with something better is one of the most popular mods. Many games from that era used scaleform for their UI which is an embeded flash layer, its horrible, but skyrim in general is locked to 60fps and rarely reaches that on its native launch hardware so scaleform performance overhead was invisible.
Old threads complaining about the performance cost of having the scoreboard up in CS:GO are a more accurate measure (also scaleform)
React native may not be slow and buggy inherently in theory, but every app I know of that uses it is slow and buggy.
Scripting engines handling UI can make sense for large and complex applications but this is the start menu. You shouldn't need a scripting engine to put icons in a list with a search box. (I know the win11 menu does more than that, but it shouldn't do more than that)
As for excel, that app uses like 5 different ui toolkits for various dialogs and systems, I can't find any info on what part of it is handled by react. Unless you're referring to the web version, that doesn't count.
Skyrim's UI has terrible design/functionality, but its performance absolutely meets the needs of the application and doing it with a more complicated toolkit would be an engineering mistake because you'd be spending more money for the same outcome
> (I know the win11 menu does more than that, but it shouldn't do more than that)
The featureset isn't the fault of react native. You can feel free to implement the tiling, animations, drag and drop features and more in immediate mode C, it's just gonna be an insane pain in the ass (more than those things are already by their inherent nature)
Pretty much every example of a terrible scripting UI is terrible because of things other than the scripting
This is correct and the reason that React Native is so useful for different platforms it creates a native version in the end
IIRC it’s a slow take on Rusts Tauri. Or Tauri is a fast take on React Native.
That’s my understanding and i dont really see the problem. Doesn’t it build to c# here?
Yes and no. It is a runtime that acts as an interpreter, translating web technology (React, JS, CSS) to environments that aren't browsers.
The most widely known way to use RN in desktops is within an electron app, because that allows the devs to stay as close as possible to the web stack. You could inject RN into other programs.
I would not say it is a good idea to use RN, but the reasons are a bit more complex than "it sucks". If your use case is simple enough, it may work.
Not at all. React Native doesn't use html or css which is what electron needs.
Yes, there's a specific renderer for react native that translates that to html so you can deploy your react native apps as web (or electron), but it's definitely not the main purpose of React Native. I'd argue if you plan on using electron just go regular React, which was built for it... react native is just way more restrictive on the UIs you can build because it has to fit multiple platforms.
The original design is to have the renderer use the native view APIs of each platform (originally iOS and Android), and have the code logic run by a JS interpreter (which is not a browser... originally v8 on Android and JavascriptCore on iOS). Now they have a more advanced architecture with Hermes which precompiles JS into a bytecode and whatnot, but definitely the main target for this is not electron.
Like if the windows start menu somehow is using electron with their react native part then wtf are they even thinking about.
They are likely trying to access other platform systems. For the renderer and interpreter to work, you need a native process to act as a middle man, and at that point you can access systems not related to rendering as well. Like the clipboard. Or maybe it is due to Hermes. Maybe they need to both polyfill and implement some code that isn't valid outside the web scope. Or perhaps they did try using plain react plus electron and it was terrible. RN is not that terrible if you are just rendering stuff, especially simple things. It goes to hell when you are trying to do everything in javascript and then the thread meant to handle user input and update the screen is busy transforming values from three databases, or attempting to read files.
Electron just lets you create a native app with react.
Yes, but it can be used for the web if necessary, although in most cases people use it to just make one app for both iOS and Android
React native does not work in web, react works in web
If necessary, people can just use "react-native-web" together with some traditional web-related React packages (like React DOM) to have one codebase that compiles to Android, iOS and web. :P https://www.npmjs.com/package/react-native-web
React native does work in web. And react doesnt have a single line of code that interacts with a web page. That's react-dom's job.
I'm guessing Microsoft is not dense enough to "export the project" (I'm not a React dev, I don't know the linguo) as a web page. So without digging further I would assume the performance problems do not come from using React Native but from good old faulty engineering
If React Native code calls native functions, what executes React Native code? Some JavaScript engine, right?
React Native uses Hermes, which compiles JavaScript to bytecode ahead of time, and is also used as the virtual machine for that bytecode. However, there's also development being put into something called Static Hermes, which will straight up compile JavaScript to native code.
I thought Apple doesn’t let you ship runtimes in iOS apps?
People ship apps to App Store where the entire updated JS code is downloaded while the user runs the app and then it gets swapped on the next launch. So you can push an update without going through Apples review and you can change anything except the native code.
Javascript is a scripting language like any other (like Python or Lua for instance). A program having a Javascript runtime doesn't suddenly transform it into a web project. See my comment here for more details.
Still uses React’s janky reactivity model, which is not known for good performance
It still embedded the JS engine
Which is way waaaaaaay less than embedding chromium. Like not even close. It's standard that if your program uses a scripting language it will embed its runtime. Then using Javascript for this is no different than using Python or Lua instead. They just chose Javascript because it allows them to use a close (but not exactly the same) API as for React, which makes reusing logic between the app and the website easier. So using Javascript instead of another scripting language is a sound decision.
BTW the heavy lifting isn't done in Javascript like it's done in a browser. It's done in the renderer which is written in C++. And if you really need to squeeze out performances for a part of your program you can always write that part in a lower-level language
It's a library to use React for "native" apps, implemented using JavaScript.
How is that not web technology?
You might as well claim Cordova or Electron aren't "web technology" because part of them is a platform-specific runtime/library.
What I mean by it not being web technology is that it doesn't render HTML and CSS, and more generally that it doesn't embed a web browser. Javascript is a scripting language among others, the only thing that makes it "web technology" is that it's embedded in all browsers and that every browser implement a standard-ish Javascript API.
You can 100% use Javascript as a standalone scripting language, which is what React Native seems to be doing from the quick look I took at their documentation. Using Javascript to define the logic of how stuff should be layed out and do the actual rendering using native solutions. In that way it's more similar to using PyQt in Python than it is to shipping something using electron.
Web copium.
React is not an web tecnology, its just a fancy way to call functions, and can even be used to build interfaces to cli apps, like with ink that has nothing to do with html or css.
Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and educate yourself before you critique something
Electron supports all the web APIs, React Native doesn't.
By your logic, is C a web technology? It regularly used in websites through wasm.
Does C rely on a JavaScript runtime to execute?
Does html rely on JavaScript runtime to execute?
Is HTML the only "web technology"?
No but your criterion that for something to be considered a web technology it must rely on JS runtime is idiotic. And you used that for definition for C.
If you go with another definition that for something to be considered a web technology it must be used on the web, then C is also a web technology which is also idiotic. And you used that definition for HTML.
You regularly switch between those two definitions and that makes your take idiotic².
In my opinion both JS and C are not strictly web technologies because they can and do commonly work outside web browsers.
No but your criterion that for something to be considered a web technology it must rely on JS runtime is idiotic.
I didn't say something that must rely on a JS runtime to be considered a web technology.
JavaScript is undoubtedly a web technology. Without question the majority of its use is in rendering engines, and the second most used location is likely to be in tooling for web development.
Fucking TTF and MPEG4 can be used on the web, but that doesn't make them "web technologies" any more than the existence of WASM makes C a "web technology".
JS can be used outside a web browser. But without a doubt it's used inside a web browser/webview a fucking lot more.
The copium of web devs is never ending. They still don't understand that spinning a VM and interpreting code CANNOT possibly compete in UI performance to just... calling a bloody instruction from code. Now 120Hz screens are becoming standard, how the hell can your JVM not miss a frame in 8ms?
"200ms is good enough", said no native dev ever.
XD 90% of the time to load is network transfer, unless you put gigabytes of css and js. Firefox says that to load my local webpage to the browser it takes between 3 to 5 ms, so you can buy 240Hz display and still not see the difference. But talking about a fact that the menu is mostly static, even if it updates next frame you're not gonna notice the 8ms delay.
More copium. Since when do the newtwork firmware engineers do CSS? Since when does web dev even look at a packet?
you're not gonna notice the X delay.
You guys don't make it hard to find out who does web, who does native. Your browser already has a hot loaded VM with a JIT cache before you even you open your web page, idiot. And as usual, it's the user that pays the price.
More copium. Since when do the newtwork firmware engineers do CSS?
Who do network engineers have to do with any of that? I don't think they were mentioned anywhere? Neither are they relevant in any way here?
Since when does web dev even look at a packet?
Since when they want their webpage to load quickly? Go to any big professional webpage that is mainly focused on serving heavy video and see how it works relatively fast thanks to optimizations made like loading in stages, loading minimum needed for basic hydration, hover over a video on youtube and see how you get a minor delay before preview starts playing, because instead of slowing the whole site loading previous for everything it does the minimum and then stream jit for the one vide etc. Thank god for those engineers that are curious and actually try to understand below the surface level, so they can do stuff like optimization instead of churning crud #3542.
You guys don't make it hard to find out who does web, who does native. Your browser already has a hot loaded VM with a JIT cache before you even you open your web page, idiot. And as usual, it's the user that pays the price.
Good that this hot loaded vm already has all the heavy images and video needed preloaded inside so they don't have to be sent by the internet which takes the most time out of page rendering. That's why they publish a new version every time you push an image to your micro traveling blog. /s Not like getting that loaded locally is going to be much faster, right? /s
Man, if only we could somehow take that already existing technology from the browser and maybe also hot load the VM in this case, since it's servicing something so basic as the menu in our system, that we know will always be running. /s /s /s
More web copium. I love when excited 12 year old vibe coders try to explain to me how the internet works.
"I'm so so scared of compiled languages, I base my entire personality on Garbage Collectors"
Yet another indication that at the root of most software issues is the concept of a gui.
(please take this as the joke it is, I'm not going to argue about it)
The bonkers part is that React Native is often preferable to OS UI kits.
I don't know exactly which parts of the Office family uses React Native, but it used in Excel, Word etc as I recall hearing that Fluent UI was constructed for React Native.
The bonkers part is that React Native is often preferable to OS UI kits.
Preferred by whom?
React devs who love react, and managers who love react because they've never used it
The only things worse than react native development are Android + IOS native development
As my linux friends say: "screw the users!"
Excel, Word etc
just reading these I cringe
I imagine the office family also uses React Native because it makes it easier to develop for both the desktop version and the browser version.
android app native UI is like a living torture, respect to every mobile devs out there.
Thank you brother. Don't forget our fight with designers who don't understand that a webpage is not a printed page, and an app has to accomodate different screen sizes/proportions.
Material toolkit? I thought it was easy and appreciated.
1 is very true though. Much easier to make one installable PWA than a web app and also a native android and iOS app, desktop apps aside.
Ionic+Capacitor is my tool of choice for this, it's quite nice to work with.
Ionic+capacitor? Damn man, you might as well be running Cordova.
Age discrimination.
What if I’m still dealing with the debt?
Inheritence.
Premature optimizatuon is evil. Remember kid premature... or double it & pass it down
isnt the whole point of react native just to make native ui with html+css components instead of xaml
It makes me sad to remember WinJS existed for a hot second. Thoughts to the guys who worked on Windows 8 features that now are mainstream. It was just too early.
just like windows longhorn, too ambitious
React native is making native ui with, well, native ui elements. You just get to do so with components the same way you’d build html with React
No it's not. React Native doesn't use html.
Turn what's react about it
What?
*then
React is only a fancy way of calling functions ("components") with an html-inspired syntax and rerunning them in a smart way when the state changes.
react-dom took react and created functions like <div/> or <a/> that map to their respective html elements. And it created logic for replacing parts of DOM when needed.
React Native took react and also created functions like <View /> or <FlatList /> that under the hood render native elements of the respecive host OS.
There are libraries that take react and map their functions to a TUI widgets so you can create a TUI app. Or libraries whose components "render" ffmpeg CLI arguments(so simply strings) so you can create animations like with After Effects.
None of them (except for react-dom ofc) touch any browser API. Just because react-dom is the most popular adapter library used with react, doesn't mean react the library is somehow tied to the browser. In fact Roblox ported react to Lua so they can have a nicer way of managing state.
Should have used rust.
Ah ah ah, you didn't rant how rust is the best thing ever and every other technology in the universe should run on it, including migrating the Voyager probes to it.
Entire Xbox UI is react native. React native is not electron guys, get on with the times.
Edit: OP is even saying React Native is a web technology, oh god…
React native is just wrapping c# at that point though, right?
I’m not a React Native guy, but it’s my overall understanding that it builds down to whatever native ui the platform uses…
Can an expert chime in?
How long until the OS is just a web page and we are all just using dummy terminals over web ?
Almost there then, just need to gut the computer and make it a true dumb terminal so the nerds can’t install Linux on it
I mean that’s basically a chrome book
“We got tired of dealing with our own OS version compatibility issues so we offloaded that work to an open source framework”
mf's be using VS Code as their IDE of choice while shitting all over using js/ts for desktop development.
We’ll all be running chromiumOS if we don’t act soon.
I was really wondering lately why on my beefy office work station the start menu is also laggy in windows 11. Now I know..
My desktop used to hang for a long second if I dared to click the notification icon. The issue is now gone since I switched from intel 13th to rizen x3d back in January.
The windows 11 start menu is the shittiest part of Windows
Is react-native bad? I've got a web app and was thinking of using RN to make android and iOS versions
Who the hell cares?
At this point, surviving on full Linux is now make sense
React native is good
Ah, this explains why the Start menu is a steaming pile of unusable turd now
Now?
Jetpack compose
I tried using React Native a few months ago and it was such a pain in the ass to get it to work in browser I was tempted to learn Flutter.
Ngl that's really your fault, React Native was specifically made to NOT just be React, you use the wrong tool for the job and then complain about the tool
In fact React Native itself doesn't even support web builds that's something Expo introduced and many people (including me) dislike that that's even a thing, React Native builds Native cross platform mobile apps, not websites
Damn. Yeah, that's on me for assuming it would support web by default because of the name and that I could open it in a browser with Expo. I never got the point of making builds either.
All good, many programmers confuse the 2 and expo does add a lot of new things (which now seem default as expo became the recommended way to make RN apps)
I'm glad you responses properly tho most people either just dowvote and ghost it or respond with a completely irrelevant thing
Also to the flutter thing you mentioned in the original comment: it can compile to Web but iirc the community kinda dislikes it because it doesn't build into well structured html or something, flutter itself is pretty nice tho I'd pick it up either way
Why would you try to use react native in the browser when you could just use regular react?
Because I wanted to try making an app for Android, iOS, and web in one project, and it's supposed to be able to do that.
No it is not. React Native is supposed to build cross platform android and ios apps, that's it
I see no problem with this approach, similar way, why people are not bothering using python for ML
Ok. I get the hate of it being used in an os, but react native on its own isn't bad. Apps have to get made somehow, and some of us like using tech we already know. Sure call it lazy. I call it not having infinite time and resources.
No wonder it’s so dogshit slow!
I don’t think it’s that “dogshit” slow , average folk won’t be able to tell difference between a native app and a hermes js bridge react native app, as react native is also rendering native elements, just the logic and communication happens with the js engine
It's obvious they're porting the Windows Menu to macOS and Linux
It sounds like a joke until you understand how "SQL Server on Linux" works.
Please… for the love of whatever deity you worship… don’t tell me it’s React Native too.
No don't be silly..
They just implemented the NT Kernel as a user-mode abstraction layer that runs on top of Linux....
https://threedots.ovh/slides/Drawbridge.pdf
So LSW (WSL in reverse)… somehow… it’s even worse.
Yep, it's kind of like the reverse approach of WSLv1 where they had a layer to support linux syscalls on top of the NT kernel. Or I guess similar to Wine but not OSS, and I don't know if Wine supports anything which reqires kernel drivers. It sounds like Drawbridge specifically does.
Unsurprisingly they gave up on that approach and WSLv2 is just a fancy way to run a VM, but with the added complication that it makes Windows a guest OS as well, with both running on top of Hyper-V.
The fucking what?
Seriously?
Which part?
But also, yes.
But why?
That implies hardware pass through, I’d imagine that it would play havoc with auto cheat, etc.
Yeah anti-cheat pretty much does not work in such an environment. Hyper-v has never been good for hardware 3D acceleration either. It has a lot of strengths but utility as an interactive host that works as good as a dedicated user facing OS isn’t one of them
Well fuck.
Sincerely, thank you.
I’ve been dealing with fucking weird ghost in the machine instability for MONTHS when I’ve been playing games in Full screen borderless mode.
Ripping out Virtualization services and WSL, and I’m right as rain.
Windows has ALWAYS run as a guest OS on top of Hyper-V. That has nothing to do with WSL, that's just how Hyper-V works and it was a convenient path when they added WSL2.
Hyper-V has only existed since Windows 8, and even with Windows 11 it's still an optional "feature".
A simple litmus test for which of us is correct: if Windows has "always" run as a guest on top of Hyper-V, there would be no need to "enable" it, as it would always be installed and running.
Exhibit a: "Step-By-Step: Enabling Hyper-V for Use on Windows 11" https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/educatordeveloperblog/step-by-step-enabling-hyper-v-for-use-on-windows-11/3745905
This is not true, hyper-v was a feature of Windows Server 2008 which came out in 2008 and Windows 8 came out in 2012, hyper-v was added to professional editions of the Windows client OS SKUs.
The commenters statement could have possibly worded it better; if you did not have hyper-v enabled, then Windows ran directly not as any guest. If you enabled hyper-v, Windows ran as a guest under the now-enabled hyper visor. It was pretty transparent to most users.
Sorry I forgot to account for the 3 people in a basement who run Windows Server on their desktop.
Because when Hyper-V isn't enabled, there's no such thing as a guest OS. It's pretty simple.
Once Hyper-V is enabled, Windows becomes a guest OS. You can toggle back and forth between Hyper-V on and off, and Windows will go back and forth between being native and "guest" every time. It's been that way since day 1, nearly a decade before WSL2 took on that method.
You say it as if running as a guest OS is some sort of problem and not just a clever way of running a low-level hypervisor. It's not like it takes drastic configuration and MMU passthrough like other VM's. It boots into it and runs the same as if it was "native" while benefiting from the sandboxing that Hyper-V enables to protect it from the other guest OS's. It's actually really smart.
Thanks for confirming that windows does not in fact always run as a guest under Hyper-V.
Maybe next time you can start with that before adding your own assumed intentions about what other people have said.
Running sql server in docker container on a linux vm in wsl.
I’ve been wishing for “LSW” for years now - an “official” alternative to Wine, more-or-less. I would gladly pay for a key if it means I can run all Windows applications while never having to touch Windows again.
Which windows?
So, if I run it in Docker inside WSL... Is it Windows inside Linux inside Windows? And what if I tell you that my Windows is actually a VM?
Assuming WSL2, that would be NT Kernel inside Linux inside Hyper-V inside whatever Hypervisor you're running.
With WSL2 Linux and Windows are running in parallel as Hyper-V guests.
Believe it or not, straight to jail, right away.
I’ve actually done this before because SQL containers are one of the easiest ways to install SQL.
Can we use it like Wine
If you use it enough and people will demand you take a sobriety test.
What. The. Fuck.
anti wine
I've read the whole thing.
What. the. fuck.
Also thanks for sharing.
But also, and again, what the fuck?! That part where they run native Windows binary with drawbridge at the end is cracking me up.
I understand the Azure cloud appeal, but the performances must be horrible?! Or at least it's terribly inneficient?! WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHY?!
I think they saw late-90s Novell Netware and got jealous of the ridiculousness.
why didn't they just use wine?
Well, it‘s not Qt
No, it's way more ugly...
PS What's wrong with Qt :D?
There is extra irony here because Microsoft SQL Server was originally based on licensing Sybase SQL Server which ran on UNIX
What’s really horrible thinking about that is that in its Sybase form SQL Server had native Unix support
There are people with macs who use Edge. There are some strange folk out there, never underestimate them.
I use Edge on Linux
I Edge on Linux
Why not Vivaldi?
Why not terminal browser?
wget https://www.google.com/?q=how%20do%20i%20train%20a%20horse%20in%20minecraftRide it untill it likes you
They definitely meant
w3mor similar.wgetandcurldo not apply.I mean we're all maining that, but when you need to see pictures and videos and the ascii conversion isn't cutting it
The newest terminal emulators should be able to render images. Non-plaintext shells are also popping up. Maybe in a couple decades that’ll be the standard
Safari is way worst than Edge, especially for web development
Safari is the worst for sure.
Edge isn’t really as bad of a browser as people make it to be. It’s come a long way. I’d say it’s better than Chrome (not by that much but still)
Edge had good PR when it launched. Now it’s filled with ads, forces MS services on you, and is and will continue pushing AI trash.
Story of every product ever since 2022
As was always the agenda.
I mean, it is Chrome, so there's that.
It is chromium-based, know the difference you’re a programmer
Yep, I'm one of them 😈
The power of Christ compels you
I feel see. At the moment it’s the only thing that’s doing it for my workflow. Side tabs, tab groups and workspaces. Might use something else but can’t install plugins for similar features because work laptop.
I use Edge on Mac.
The very definition of an edgelord
Edge is just MS flavored chrome, so I don’t think this is any stranger than using chrome on mac
But why would you intentionally introduce the pungent, lame-o smell of MS into your expensive non microsoft laptop
Due to popular demand I reckon
…I guess you could now
I wouldn't be opposed to having the taskbar on MacOS tbh. The macOS dock is horrible.
Gross