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As a C++ dev, I can confirm that the few times I asked an AI about code, their solution didn't even compile.
Can confirm. It failed through the code was only 100 lines
I was the code
Can confirm, I was the compiler
Can confirm, I was the linker.
How can the linker confirm if it failed the compilation stage.
because it's sat there, lonely, in the dark, unwanted, alone, for what seems like an eternity since it was last called for in to the service of the great Compiler of all things.
But you cannot be sure that compilation failed, the compilation might have been not completed yet.
lol
100 lines?? Lol I never used it for more than 20 lines, but mostly for 10 on avg, and I'm using python... More than that and it becomes a waste of time
Try that for embedded, it doesn't even understand what you are asking out of it.
It's a fucking genious at misreading the specification of MCU registers and options though. So at least there's that.
I'm still waiting for my first proper use case where using AI actually saves me time rather than waste it.
I work in a big software company, but in the embedded systems area. Which is very small given the size of the company, 50 engineers in 32.000.
The whole company is moving towards measuring engineers performance in terms of tokens consumed. My boss is trying to explain the "big brain move" people above that you can't apply that for embedded
I'd argue you cant apply that for anything. Obvious management has bought the hype without understanding it and will end up regretting it.
tokens... consumed.
Holy fuck! Am I in for a massive bonus this year! This is too easy.
do they check the prompts sent or do they just look at the numbers? just game it, or even better, use it to sharpen your skill to jump companies lol
At some point I created a two agents system in a feedback loop. It was fun to play with, one was prompting the other
Amateur, get the AI to write and execute a script to call another AI, which is to write and execute a script ... You'll be out of the company's tokens in no time.
if I wanted an insecure yet overconfident idiot to misread specifications I'd just do it myself
The biggest win for me was converting raw bytes in to a proprietary float format I couldn’t access the documention for. The Google AI somehow accessed some pdf from the depths of hell and gave me an encoding and decoding algorithm.
isn't lack of copywright and ignoring intellectual property a wonderful thing? :D
Ooh, that may be helpful. I have to deal with assembly for a zilog processor from the 80s every once in a while with an instruction set I'm not super comfortable with.
I’ve gotten good mileage out of using it to write me powershell scripts to process some file I needed into another format (eg recently needed to embed a binary blob as an array into a C++ test class, that was extracted from a field in another file that was in base64 - was able to get it to build a script to pull that out, decode it and then print each byte as a comma separated hex literal wrapped in a byte array header that o could just copy paste)
It’s nearly useless for actual code though.
I asked a question related to setting up registers this week and it told me to use a register keyword that not only had nothing to do with what I asked but has also been deprecated for over a decade.
Huh? It's not deprecated. It's pretty useless, it's only required to prevent taking the address of the qualified object, but still in the C23 standard.
§6.7.1-8
A declaration of an identifier for an object with storage-class specifier register suggests that access to the object be as fast as possible. The extent to which such suggestions are effective is implementation-defined141 .
141) The implementation can treat any register declaration simply as an auto declaration. However, whether or not addressable storage is used, the address of any part of an object declared with storage-class specifier register cannot be computed, either explicitly (by use of the unary & operator as discussed in 6.5.3.2) or implicitly (by converting an array name to a pointer as discussed in 6.3.2.1). Thus, the only operator that can be applied to an array declared with storage-class specifier register is sizeof and the typeof operators.
In C it’s still there, in C++ register was removed in C++17
I gave ChatGPT a snippet and asked it to reverse the byte order when copying some data. It gave me back the same snippet, but added "in reverse byte order" to the comment "// Copy the data". When I pointed out that it hadn't changed the code at all, it froze
LLMs I used were trying to convince me that there is virtual templated functions
Did you ask it for the compiler extension to make that work?
In my experience, it's pretty useful for boilerplate stuff. It's also helpful as a code reviewer. I always ask it to review my code before committing, and from time to time, it does spot something worthy of my attention.
But it's not nearly as useful as it is for Java, Kotlin, C#, JS/TS, Python, etc.
In my experience, it's pretty useful for boilerplate stuff.
I don't think I've had a need for boilerplate stuff the last 5 years of my working career.
Code review wise it does about the same thing as running clang tidy on the code but with extra steps.
FFI structures could be "boilerplate". Its literally only reason i used chatgpt, Im too lazy to convert 50 structs from C to Rust manually
To me, boilerplate is sometimes the sign of the wrong framework, or wrong language.
You can't avoid it completely, but some frameworks and languages seem a lot more guilty of it than others.
AI is mostly for web developers
and python jockeys
Hey, I resemble that remark.
Nah it sucks there too
and things that are mostly open source or has source on github that they can steal.
I only work on foss, but it’s C++. It’s still clueless.
I work on unreal engine and it can be hit or miss
C developer here, it's terrible at memory manipulation too, I only use this shit as a text formatter for Jira and confluence stuff
Six months ago I couldn't get anything to produce working Rust code, now Gemini does an amazing job at it.
I have gemini pro and it is constantly wrong about Rust.
Yes, it makes tons of mistakes! All developers do. It's trained on human written code, which means it makes the same mistakes human developers do.
You can't just fire and forget and think it's going to one shot a problem any more than you or I can do that.
You have to treat it like a tool and work with it. The benefit is how much faster an agent is than a human, and how much broader its knowledge base.
Don't expect perfection, don't expect it to get it right every time, or the first time.
Keep working it over and you'll get better results, faster, but never error free. At least, not yet.
It leads in wrong direction
So does a car with a sleeping driver. That's not the cars' fault, but the drivers'.
Won’t happen if you are driving on the straight line. Everything works there.
Let's see... walking a hundred miles at three miles an hour, or driving a car at 60 mph, but having to constantly steer... which is faster and easier... ?
You're right, walking!
lets not compare it to cars. each car is subtly different, you depress the clutch at different amounts to achieve the biting point, fine.
However with ai its more like the car your driving changes to a different car that looks the same each time you issue a command to your car, and each command is an overcompensation which you have to reel in incase you kill someone.
The car is deterministic. once you know your car its issues are easily compensated for (or even if you dont. it takes 30 seconds to adapt to the new cars differences). with ai its issues changes each day and at no point will it be correct the first time, unlike a car.
That's a bit overstated. Cars break down all the time, they're not deterministic, they're probabilistic - they probably produce the outcome you want. But what about when that clutch gives out? Whoops! The output is no longer guaranteed.
AI is often, but not always, right the first time. I use Cursor/Gemini all day, every day, and have daily for the last 6 mos or so. It frequently one-shots a simple file, building the test and functions correctly the first time. It does struggle to fix a puzzle piece into a mostly-built, complex puzzle, and requires a LOT of context and incremental guidance in that case.
But you know what?
AI coding tools are the best they've ever been, but the worst they'll ever be. They'll only keep getting better.
Pretending like they aren't already pretty awesome, and will only get better and better over time, will hurt nobody's career, income, or prospects except yours.
Go shake your fist at clouds, see how much the clouds care.
Use AI to help you, or don't. Developer jobs will only continue to get more reliant on AI tools. You can learn to use them, or you can wonder why you can't get a promotion, or a job, or why your skills aren't valued as much anymore.
Do you want to see a junior with half your experience make twice as much as you?
No?
Well, old man, put on your big boy pants and learn how to use new tools.
As long as I'm still 3x faster raw-dog-programming while you try to convince your AI to not repeatedly drive itself into a wall — I'm not worried about missing out on this "tool" or being replaced
... but you're not, so... :shrug:
That's a bit overstated. Cars break down all the time, they're not deterministic, they're probabilistic - they probably produce the outcome you want. But what about when that clutch gives out? Whoops! The output is no longer guaranteed.
i did not factor mechanical breakdowns into your analogy because you attributed ai breakdowns to user error. If you serviced your car regularly (like your legally required to do), you wouldnt have broken down.
It is a fact that a car breaks down less often than chatgpt's website has outages (let alone incorrect prompt responses). if your specific car doesnt, that is entirly your own fault, you knew it had those issues because it breaks down on you often, you should have delt with it, do it now before you kill someone.
AI is often, but not always, right the first time.
in my experience, its only right some of the time, or wrong in a minor way in something very easy that is well founded, something juniors can do. otherwise its answers requires major corrective sergury requiring multiple prompts or manual adjustment. which is expected, that is the nature of the beast after all. it can only do what it has data for.
AI coding tools are the best they've ever been, but the worst they'll ever be.
They are also entirly substadised by venture capital, they are also the cheapest they will ever be.
Go shake your fist at clouds, see how much the clouds care.
Why are you upset, i use ai all the time.
Do you want to see a junior with half your experience make twice as much as you?
I do not care in the slightest. i make pleanty of money doing a job i love and live a comfortable life. i dont have insecurities like that, im not a teenager, as you said.
Nah, it's faster just to do it myself
Like walking is faster than driving.
Press X to doubt.
You're driving an e-scooter with a low battery and a wobbly wheel.
Also we're walking through a dark forest, not downtown.
You're blustering because you're afraid. There's no reason to be afraid. It's just a tool. Learn how to use it.
/shrug used it, it was like having a dumb intern backseat driving me.
I'm as scared of AI as I was of crypto-bros telling me I would be a poor in their new world economy
"Does an amazing job"
but
"You have to constantly correct it"
It sounds like just nixing the middle man and learning coding, and improving your error correcting skills would be more effective. That's like asking a toddler to model a horse out of clay, but you have to keep going back over their work to make sure it at least LOOKS like a horse while also adding in the finer details.
You have to treat it like a tool and work with it.
The tool is the person using it to code.
new anthropic model in vscode agent mode actually compiles files before it’s done. first time I’ve used copilot for simple multiple file edits that are too compex for regex, it actually worked well but took like 4 minutes for 10 files
That is mostly true regardless of the language. Its gotten better though.
Because ai sucks for compiled languages. In go it's the same, it sometimes work correctly if the scope is very small and the solution is obvious. But if you ask it for something more advanced, like splitting the code into smaller chunks, it starts to hallucinate so hard. Using non existent functions, wrong error calls, logic flaws, abundance of useless comments etc.
I strongly believe the whole AI coding space hype came from people using AI for non compiled languages like Python and JS that will take anything and will "work". Obviously it won't, it's just looks like they do
I write primary C code on a daily basis, and AI sucks at writing C.
It wasn’t bad at refactoring. Give it some time ;)
Wait, does it mean, that if you use C++ the vibe coders will not work with you, and will not replace you...
If they replace anyone it’s because of incompetent management not because they deliver good results.
Yup. My company started mandating it so I’ve basically had to start like fine tooth combing PRs. But if they want AI this is the new process
Well the problem is that you chose a language that doesn't just happily print errors to the console and then keep on trucking or just stop executing while the html language still renders. What's a few broken features anyway 🤷♂️
As a uni student taking my C intro course… nothing ever compiled (no pun intended)
C++ devs using gen AI is terrifying.
Works ok for Arduino starter projects. But as soon as I figured out what I was doing, it became pretty useless.
Yeah, had to disable it. Worked nice while learning go, though.
Really depends on how you use it imo. It's a tool and a tool is only as good as the person using it.
I've had good results with AI generating the parts using a library I'm not familiar with in C++ and producing a decent result. I wouldn't put it into production, and obviously I would read up on the functions it would call, but for generating a first draft it usually does pretty well.
My rule of thumb when I use AI to generate code snippets is like 5 to 10 lines max, otherwise it starts hallucinating.
CMake though, I've had horrible results letting it generate that. The few times I've experienced the code was unable to compile it was due to a generated CMake file, not the C++ itself.
AI solutions don't compile for any language, but they need not need to
I badly used AI, and it was bad, therefore AI will forever be bad
Nowhere mentioned badly used, nowhere mentioned it's gonna be bad forever. Don't start putting shit in other people's mouth in case yours is full of it
Pfft, well, from that account, it sounds like the tools are worthless then. Probably just a fad.
Well I mean you're asking it wrong. Of the like three times I used AI to generate code for me. He got it right at least once, and I asked it to do something pretty complicated too and only had to reprompt it once in and that was totally because I didn't clarify fully what I wanted it to do...
Meanwhile I've been using opus and gemini to port legacy c++/dx9/mfc to wasm/wxwidgets and it works fine (I'm not really a c++ dev, I just have to stare at it a lot)
Funny coincidence, Ginsberg (the character in the top image) progressively becomes more hysterical over the office's new computer. Eventually he has a breakdown and has to be taken to a mental hospital.
May I kindly ask what show is this from?
Mad Men
Thank uuuuu
You're in for a treat!
Oh ik, since I mostly choose shows based on actors I've seen play well before (like these two in the post) 😊
I remember asking Co-Pilot something where I knew a solution exists that's like 16lines of code, and it gave me a "solution" that was a bit sus regarding whether it was going to terminate... so I asked it whether this code is guaranteed to terminate and the AI frickin' froze....
Holy shit an actual joke! Your talents are wasted here
halting problem jumpscare
It shows that C++ is better, cause that dumb ai can't help those vibe coders here!
"C/C++ so shit even AI doesnt want to learn it"
Ai can't comprehend it. It is superior.
Meanwhile python dev
Can confirm
Does this sub think/post about anything other than ‘vibe coders?’ Getting a little obsessive over here
I think they're annoying as fuck but the "I'm gonna steal ur job due to being a prompt god" crowd has been a lot quieter lately in my experience, so it's a bit of a dead horse at the moment.
It's definitely getting tiresome. Vibe coders this, ai that. It's just bottom of the barrel material. Not that this sub had the best material to begin with, but still. Also, like, you apparently do think about vibe coders, OP, because you made and/or posted this meme.
First to clarify, This post is not about vibe coders. The co-pilot has been in use even before the "vibe coders" terminology or LLM became famous. I'm just pointing out that C and C++ users rarely use these co-pilot features as they can code without this help.
Also regarding your question, there are many posts about other parts beyond vibe code but they aren't having enough reach like "vibe code" related ones.
One side, We programmers are overall amused how people who don't understand basics are attempting at vibe coding and screwing things up. So there are many posts regarding that.
On the other hand, big companies like Google recently are generating 50% of its source code via AI so maybe there are places " vibe code"makes sense. And indeed the programmer community is insecure as due to some of these recent developments and layoffs and the memes are around that as well.
" Vibe coding" is indeed grinding our gears and unavoidable in this sub. Let's all cope up
-u/yuva-krishna-memes ( This is my another id)
Holy shit you sound exhausting
The devil is always in the details and unfortunately it will be exhausting
You’re speaking for all of “we programmers” while still being in that mentality where you think developers using 1 language are more legit than developers of other languages. You’re either young enough to be a poser or you’re just one of many emotionally stunted developers. Regardless, you’re in the camp of developers who rejects modern tooling out of misplaced pride and as a result will always be behind the curve regardless of how smart you’ve (incorrectly) assessed yourself to be.
Did you really read my message? As it seems like you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say
I'm not against copilot. It's not very useful for C and C++ developers. I'm talking about this in specific when I am talking about specific programming languages.
When I say " All programmers" , I am giving an idea of opinion on the vibe coders who are into prompt based programming without understanding the basics.
I am not against vibe coding as long as the programmer is aware of what they are doing. Ideally code is also a tool.
Regarding your personal comments about my experience, misplaced pride and smartness
I have 20+ years experience in programming and I try to keep up with technology. I don't have anything against modern tooling as long as the users know what they are doing.. I never want to reinvent the wheel or do something the harder way.
In work and business, decisions would be objective ..so if they demand AI support, I will go with it . the smart, pride are purely subjective terms and I don't get along with them and hard to discuss them with stranger.
I do C all day long, and Copilot in VS Code can generate a couple line snippets and answer questions just fine. The other C devs at my job use the auto complete in Vim frequently. I find Copilot to be a lot faster and easier than Google for a lot of things.
can confirm. while it's shit at generating big codebases, for small, specific functions it's working wonders. also, it's a faster way of googling things, as you don't have to leave vs code. i'm not a big ai fan, but copilot helps increasing your productivity a little
Has no one seen the fucking show? The whole point was that Don (the "I don't think about you" guy) is lying, and is actually scared shitless of the new guy's talent. Unless OP wants to imply that the devs are scared of AI.
It’s also funny because in order to make this meme you prove that you ARE thinking of them
It's just how the meme format is used. I doubt most people who use it have seen the show.
Accualy I found copilot extremely useful to write nested namespaces for me, and writing content for logging is also quite good.
But anything beyond that is just complete garbage most of the time.
At my current job they are forcing me to use AI una project to refactor a bunch of badly written integration tests. It created a base test class with 8k lines of code and nothing works. And still they want me to waste my time asking AI to fix it :(
The lower level you go the worse the AI code gets
Copilot is for people who fear pointers. We C++ devs embrace the segfault.
It only means that average programmer writes shitty C++ code what is totally expected.
Really? You C++ devs are not using AI assist?
Just for in line completions. Writing new logic or entire source files is nearly impossible in my experience. Good luck trying to explain the context of your 20+ VS projects to an LLM.
Not for coding for sure. The best way IMHO to ask AI ways to approach things when you work with some obscure lib or system. It gives you some hints and direction to look. Pretty much replacement for search engines that became pure shit this days.
Yup i got some nice pointer from it when dealing with Z/os when i don't have time to read 30 ibm redbook of 1800 pages.
What? I use AI all the time for c++. Am I doing something wrong?
Not normally no, I sometimes use it to give an “rough” baseline but i always need to correct it.
I am, cursor + Claude gives some pretty solid result tbh
JetBrains CLion has it, I believe
Why these "C/C++ devs" {no such thing as [programming language] devs} so insecure about everyone?
I never heard about LLM have issue with writing C until now. If this made up issue then this sub is done.
Python Dev: I am so high!
I'm pretty sure this isn't just cpp devs, this is all decently good devs.
I like using the copilot for speeding things up a bit. Not fully writing functions, or anything like that, but stuff like variable naming, or when I do something for one axis that I have to do for the other as well, the copilot suggests it for me. Little stuff, here and there, but never full on auto code writing, because even when just completing things it was supposed to just copy, it could make mistakes sometimes. Granted, I mainly write in C# in unity so I am by no means a prograammer, just a hobbyist
For sure, sometimes it can’t even properly use smart pointer even when explicitly asked to do so(failed to compile)
Any dev feels the same. Ai agents only spout slop
Oh, our c++ devs think about this sadly.
Our managers force them and everyone to use the inhouse ai for everything, even when the ai is not ready for c or c++...
They complained several times but well, they want to push their excuses for layoffs....
so you are implying C/C++ devs break down behind closed doors?
What? Copilot is my pair programmer and reviewer for c++, your loss
I've never even asked AI for help with C. How bad is the experience?
Is Copilot the new Rust or something? I can't be bothered learning another python based syntax
I literally use copilot for C++ all the time at my job, it's pretty damn clever. It can still be stupid, but it's a good tool. You're hurting yourself not taking advantage of it.
I vibe coded an obs plugin that works great. Don’t know c at all.
Meanwhile...
C# dev: (stops typing for a moment)
Copilot: (suggests a completely hallucinated mess)
We could totally discern the lack of caring by the fact there are a dozen posts a day like this.
Wait until they realize why everyone is getting laid off.
Which copilot is this? I swear Microsoft named a dozen things copilot.
Meanwhile verilog ide that doesn't even have dark theme:
Everyone ik writes verilog in vscode or nvim, if you're rawdogging vivado or something you're a sociopath
It’s not that bad
Half the time I’m rawdogging it in vim.
yeah our university had us do it in vivado. no AI. Design a single core CPU with data forwarding or whatever the fuck it's called, write it in SystemVerilog, make it run on an FPGA. 2 weeks. lmao
How else are you supposed to inspect your hardware? In the dark? Feature not
buglack of featureDamn, even my COBOL IDE has a dark theme
I’m sure black punched cards work just as well as white ones.
Dark theme is good as long as it has blue background.
We write system verilog using gedit in our school :)