ProgrammerHumor
agedLikeMilk
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The issue with non technical people doing vibe coding like this is that you might notice an api key in the frontend/git repo, a lack of validation, passwords stored in plain text etc. but you don't even have the expertise to realise its a problem
You don't know what you don't know, and that's where the danger lies.
So technically - the issue is that non-tech guys do not know how to decompose the task in correct way, while AI tooling is good, but not good enough to do all the job for them...
What a surprise, lol. You know, the more I am into ML and now LLM stuff - the more I realize how correct my backyard university professors (who basically had no industrial experience for a long time) was correct when they were telling that essentially our job is to understand task in the appropriate terms more than to implement task.
AI is a lot like a chainsaw... Any idiot can use it to cut down a tree, but it doesn't take long for the tree to fall on the idiot
it also consumes a lot of fuel to use, and is arguably pretty harmful to the environment, and-
damn that's a pretty good metaphor
Not so lot, actually. Arguably for some tasks may be even less than my almost-idle machine will consume while I am doing task myself.
your machine doing work + the machine the model runs on doing the work (which can be the same machine) consumes less than your machine not doing work? that math doesn't add up. and that's without the consumption used in training.
My machine doing idle kind of work (unless I start checking something) while I am going through all the problem myself
vs
My machine doing same most idle kind of work (unless I start checking something) while a pair of me + LLM (which itself consume some energy) going through all the problem.
So the difference is for much speed up I got (and yeah, in some cases guys seems to be actually slowed down) coming to a solution for the specific usecase.
It well may be amount of energy my machine will consume during this time difference is actually bigger than what well-optimized LLM inference will consume.
your machine idle while you solve something, vs your machine idle while you solve something and an LLM is running. say you solve an 8 hours problem in 4 hours: do you really think that, in 4 extra hours on your own, you would have consumed more energy than all the multiple requests to the servers, the processing of them, and the response back?
don't play down your own skills, your brain is far more efficient than that. it may take you a bit more time but it will take you a LOT less energy to solve the issue. That's like, maybe a coffee worth of energy. and since it's entirely your solution, it'll be more stable in the long run once more layers of the code are added and you aren't left not understanding why half of it is even there.
and even if you want help with the problem-solving aspects, we already have tools to help with that that pose far less risk and are already well established, like documentation, online communities, google, and so on. which is also what the ai responses will be based on anyway so like... cmon.
So, now to energy.
Sam tells average ChatGPT query consumes like
> each query to ChatGPT consumes about 0.34 Wh of electricity (0.00034 KWh)
So, 0.34Wh on average. Which is well within expected range.
Now assume average developer tooling request is like 10 times more expensive due to bigger context and so on. Just to get the order of magnitude. So 3.4Wh.
Now assume that task requires like 10-20 back and forth or new session iterations. 34-68Wh than.
So somewhere on the way lower end of average machine 1-hour consumption. So if it saved more than 1 hour... Than it is net win for LLMs energy efficiency.
in 4 extra hours on your own, you would have consumed more energy than all the multiple requests to the servers, the processing of them, and the response back?
In that extra/removed 4 hours my machine would probably consume noticeably more that all that processing. Need to calculate, but all the approximations I made were telling so.
your brain is far more efficient than that
No, I am not even bringing my brain to calculation. Just machines alone in both cases.
But now - yes, over 8 hours my brain will consume more than over 4 (althrough I tell you that outside of some specific tasks and approaches, like mine seem to be - 2x reduce is quite overestimate).
and even if you want help with the problem-solving aspects, we already have tools to help with that that pose far less risk and are already well established, like documentation, online communities, google, and so on
Documentation
Yeah, and when I need to make my own stuff - documentation won't help me. Like documentation will help me understand fastapi stuff / langchain stuff, but not to decompose and implement my own algorithm using them.
Because no documentation for the thing which do not exist yet.
Online communities
Online communities might help... But either
with searching for similar issues (bingo, if I found similar stuff I can apply - I would not be brainstorming how to do it, alone or with llms - so the fact I use them tells I exhausted either that option or my decomposition + search ability)
or, in case my question is not trivially mapped to theirs - it will take time. If I would bring some interest here at all
You seem yo somehow think these options are exclusive. I instead tell you - that options are good for different subset of tasks.
Like searching for clearly technical issues of the existing libraries?
Surely for public ones google and communities are first resort (althrough even here you may use llms to aggregate stuff before reviewing sources yourself).
Debugging some private stuff? If that behaviour is not documented (so documentation and code is first resort) than adding a "rubber duck" which may sometimes even spit out actual answer is useful. Not making it do the whole debug for you, but reviewing if what it outputs making sense due to your knowledge.
Brainstorming how to make minor new stuff (or which minor components might dome major stuff include)? Again, "rubber duck" is useful. Not the thing you take as is, but the thing you may consider.
Autocompleting stuff? Sure.
There's another issue of just not understanding how the internet works. He's acting like the only reason this is happening is because his posts got a lot of visibility. The reality is that web applications are constantly bombarded by bad actors looking for vulnerabilities. If you don't understand this as a concept, let alone how to guard against it, you are not fit to manage any user data.
Yeah anyone taking a quick peek at a web server's firewall knows that you could put up an unlisted site on just an IP address and someone will be trying to hack it within an hour.
My former boss forced us to use chatgpt to pump out code. I was the lead dev (lol i had literally 0YOE in software, was self taught and my actual career was cyber so at least in this one instance i was confident in what i was saying.) I told him repeatedly about several major security issues for months. Eventually we had a falling out and i quit, and then 6 months later he posted on linked in how his servers were constantly under attack, because he was “being targeted by the Chinese”. i’m so glad i don’t work there anymore
"passwords stored in plain text"....
I didn't know non-technical people with AI wrote the code used by banks and credit card issuers, and experian and all the other dumbass companies the last few decades that got their entire damn database of user info dumped lol
Don’t worry there are plenty of technical people that also don’t see it as a problem.
Yeah that's... literally what the OP is saying.
Now I can just copy your comment into my cursor chat and fix it!
Don’t worry. What you don’t know can fuck you over.
I keep seeing it, but what the hell is "vibe coding?" I'm EE/CE
It's where you use vaguely-pseudointelligent Brownian motion to make computer code. /facetious
Also referred to as "prompt engineering", it's using an AI based on a large language model (LLM) to generate the code for your application and then seeing whether it does what you want. Infamously, LLMs have no understanding of what you're doing or asking of them, only what responses to prompts tend to look like. So you can ask them a question and they'll generate something that looks right on the surface, but will contradict themselves a few times (I've seen one that spit out a pretty decent proof and then concluded the opposite of what it had proven), include worst-practices that might have shown up in examples or pseudocode to illustrate concepts, and other suboptimal drek
The other problem is at a certain point AI seems to only find stuff you already can find in 10 minutes or already know and it likes to pretend it has a bad solution when it doesn't know and gaslight you when you tell it it's wrong. Trying to get an answer from a really difficult problem from AI is a useless time sink.
The best part about vibecoders is watching them create their own downfall
Same thing can happen to a beginning manually coding. The key is to know what you're doing, and use AI to help with what it can.
Indeed. The issue with vibe coders is they want to not know what they are doing as hard as possible. They want to present the fantasy of creating apps without the knowledge required and thus become vulnerable to these kinds of issues.
realise it's* a problem
Their condescending tone is what gets me. Just say hey i started using this and its surprised me at how effectively it was, instead of telling everyone how to feel about it.
Great take.
"Hey all you devs, AI is so much faster and better stop crying you suck!" is the message I got from this. Tbh he had that one coming lol.
Yes. I can totally empathise with someone for being amazed they can finally do a semblance of something that was previously exclusive to another group of people. Programming is like a superpower. But don’t suddenly start acting like Booster Gold and don’t tell me how to do my job.
Hell yeah I’m building programs in Python using chatgpt code, and I literally laugh out loud every day in amazement of what it can build for me. Mind blowing and feels life-changing.
But I also have daily moments of “I am sooo out of my depth and I have no idea what I’m doing and I couldn’t possibly scale this in any meaningful way without a professional developer’s help”
Most important mindset when using AI - This is a tool that’s only as powerful as the human using it. It ain’t magic.
You don't need an LLM for that. The meme of the two states of every programmer - "I am a god" and "i have no idea what I'm doing" is decades old by now ;)
99% of the time I'm in "I have no idea what I'm doing" mode.
The worst is looking back on old code (like really old code) and being like, "this shouldn't even be working, why is it working? I'm going to fix this" and then you refactor and everything breaks, so you revert, and it's like "Okay, well I guess we're just leaving this as it was."
And that's exactly the thing those pesky unit tests are good for ;)
(and nobody wants to write them)
They also get SUPER defensive if you point out any errors in their code, like they think Gemini/CoPilot knows better than any human ever could.
"Hey, just so you know, that's a deprecated function that you should probably not be using."
"CoPilot recommended it as the best option, I think it knows what it's doing. Please do not comment on my code again."
that is literally th most normal part in this....
Now you can continue to whine about it or start building.
P.S. Yes, people pay for it
No. Thats not normal, thats condescending and rude
that is literally normal human behaviour, you disagreeing with that person doesnt change their point of view. why is it so hard for so many to understand the other persons perspective?
i am not saying he is right or anything, but this is how people behave. if you get told that something doesnt work or is a bad idea and you feel like you suceeded, you will be a little dickish.
the only reason it is even considered condescending, is because people disagree.
youre just splitting hairs over the word normal. its very obvious everyone took your meaning of normal to mean approval, and so it is not normal in the sense as this behavior should not be approved
In my mind I heard "Two days later...."
Or…
Longer than usual? What's usual? You're not technical, doofus, and you're relying on a sycophantic Markov chain who will never admit it doesn't know an answer, of course technical tasks are taking you forever.
Sycophantic Markov Chain, my term of the day. Going to find out what this is now
"AI is going to put all software devs out of jobs is literally the worst take ever lol. Just wait till you get massive security breaches cause u don't know what the heck ur doing!
This reminds me of the joke where the coders order a beer, two beers, half a beer, a thousand beers, and then the QA guy orders a soda and the bar explodes.
I think the original was that a real customer "asks to use the restroom" and the bar explodes and I think that does a much better job of illustrating how the real world differs from what you might prepare for.
OP absolutely Britta'd the joke
are you using my name to mean a small and understandable mistake?
That guy is streets ahead!
Oh, Britta's in this?
The exact version of the joke OP posted has reached the top of reddit multiple times over the years lol
he also orders NULL beer and -10000000 beers
Also qwertyoup and the lizard in a beer glass
You can't order NULL beers; that would throw a Null Pinter Exception.
Then orders:
`); DROP TABLE BEERS;--'
this isn't the joke at all. the QA orders a beer, two beers, half a beer, 1000000 beers, -1 beers, a lizard, and qwertyuiop.
the first customer asks where the restroom is and the bar explodes.
Coders order 1 beer, 2 beers, 1000 beers, -1 beers.
QA orders abc beers, NULL beers, %&% beers.
Actual user walks up, asks where the bathroom is, and the bar explodes.
Joke written by Cursor
That's why thing like design reviews, code review, QA, pen testing, red team exists and bug bounty programs.
Not everyone needs all that but code reviews are the bare minimum
100% agree. I never push to prod until I get the green light from my reviewer, Claude.
Replacing my former QA team from Updog.
What’s updog
I'm doing well, thanks for asking
Np
Hey, you're not op!
Today, we are all updog.
Not much, what's up with you, dog?
NOthing much whats up with you?
And in this specific case, even just decent skills would've been infinitely better than vibe coding.
At least milk lasts longer than 2 days.
It's almost as if a program held together with no knowledge, shoestrings and bubblegum isn't going to be the most stable or secure...
Repost. It was posted a week back..
This is like 4 months old lol
Next time, try counting on your fingers first
Were 17/7 the tweets were 17/3. 7-3 =4 maybe you need to count
This. Why is this sub so full of dumb people pretending to know it all?
This sub is technically the Open Mic Night of the programming world.
Vibe coders
I think it's a bit deeper. This stop killing games guy, you are hating here, in the comments the code of his shitty Indy game was judged like it would be some RTC running some ADAS for a vehicle, also from the advises some people gave. Not talking about the first posts with the really shitty code, more talking about the latter about "PerformanceIssues" post.
Seems like a lot of people here get to feel the sen. Devs. Bad dragon on a daily basis and search for balance to still feel great.
Sometimes I wonder how people can possibly claim to be getting so much value from letting AI code stuff compared to what they do can without it.
And then I meet software devs who say stuff like this
I mean , I’m not a mechanic but could rely on YouTube to do an oil change. Relying on AI for simple tasks is fine.
The problem is if I rebuilt an entire car from scratch. You can google all the different parts and get em. But you have no concept of how it all works together. Don’t rely on only google or AI to be a full stack dev when you have no technical training or experience.
I'm not saying that it's completely useless, I just mean that I don't see how it's 10xing what actual software devs were accomplishing, unless said devs were just not very good.
Following your analogy, I agree, but if a mechanic started saying "I started using YouTube videos to help me do oil changes and my productivity has doubled!", I would question what the hell that mechanic was doing before.
The best part is they can't patch it because ai code is that terrible. Gotta start from basically scratch
This is the same type of guy who'd brag about being the guy bybasing the subscription
Obviously satire
I can't remember if it was this one or a different similar post, but it was very real. The website had API keys saved in the frontend code and you could see them in the page source. It seems like satire, but there really are people this stupid.
how am i supposed to tell? you can't put a / in the title, that's not valid camelCase. no / means no /s which means we have LITERALLY NO WAY of knowing if it's satire
What about myCamelCaseTitleWarningContainsSatire
Eh everyone and their mother started an AI pass through. Whether this instance is satire is irrelevant. My idiot of an ops manager from a few years back has an AI company and he can hardly sum in xls. This is going to be a gold mine for consultants fixing the vibe coded companies that actually survive.
Zero lessons were learned here.
Hey, it took two days. That's double the time it took from HBGary's CTO announcing that he infiltrated anonymous to HBGary getting hacked and leaked.
Conclusion: Vibe coding increases safety!
Writes bad code > app gets hacked > "Wow guys stop being weird lol"
"this is taking me longer then usual to figure out"
git add .env 🤡
"someone who doesn't know how to code built their own product and now they're encountering bugs like everyone else"
that's really impressive. is this an ad for cursor?
No no, not bugs, security flaws worthy of Nobel prizes.
i know someone who's an expert in fixing security flaws and their name rhymes with flat BZP
All vibe coding is replacing is blindly copy pasting StackOverflow code. If you don’t know what the code is doing, more copy pasting is just gonna dig a deeper hole.
And i'm worried about my small security hole ...
One must always assume that their users are nefarious, because there's always at least one.
Lmao GPT tried to get me to plaintext my password on a Power BI dash today
Please just stop vibin'. Please. Read the damn code, it's okay if you braincell
Are we ever gonna stop reposting this?
Like christ, this has to be the 15th time now.
You guys do realize that constantly spamming the same shit makes it seem like you ARE afraid of ai taking your job, not aren't, right?
im pretty sure that if i actually coded something and just acted like i only used AI, the same thing would happen.
everyone who works in IT knows how unsecure most systems are. even if you dont work in IT, you see those headlines all the time, we had "hackers" play around with old traffic lights, people who hacked cars, even trains are having known security risks for years.
that bing said, i think this is just a joke anyways lol
This is a real story from four months ago
Surprise data communism
If you live by the AI, you will die by the AI.
“I’m not technical”
Yeah cause that is someone I truest my money with for that SaaS!
I mean, we have seen this like 20 times—you know what? It just never gets old. Never mind.
The world is healing
Where do I find these clients that will apparently pay for such garbage?
Well, I still see it as a success.
Guy at least made minimal working prototype of his idea to check if it can work at all or not.
Not to mention that this kind of tools have usecases outside of Karphathy's definition of vibecoding. Although you have to be carefully reviewing stuff and so on.
It took him two days to realize his stuff is shit?? Damn that's a new record for AI! I think he's on to something!
Lol netsec job security is looking good.
I’ve gotten to the point where I just hate using AI for code.
I think the only thing I can actually use it for is writing, rewriting, and proofreading my marketing copy.
Feels good
Non technical.
Vibe builds a saas.
WCGW.
I like how the realization led to him thinking “weird people out there are the problem, not me making stupid decisions. Also if I stop sharing stuff online everything will be okay”
If I posted I’m going on vacation for a month and left my front door unlocked idk if the only problem would be the criminals who broke in. If you code without any concept of bad actors out there then you shouldn’t code.
To me (I’m old) this aged like fine wine that I look at at the winery during vacation but don’t buy.
Just need a CyberSecurity Agent
How it started, vs. how it's going.
That’s like putting your ass out the window and wondering why people are fingering it
AI is a great tool, so is a hammer.
But if you give a hammer to someone who doesn't know what a nail is...
Fake and gay
its not vibe-coding, its code-slop.
It was always possible for amateurs to buy tools from Home Depot, build their own house, and then watch it fall apart because they didn't know what they were doing. "Vibe coding" is like selling them a robot that automates their exact level of amateurness, with obvious results. Fools equate automation with capability.
To truly trust robots to do tasks humans currently do, we're going to need to give them an enormous amount of time and use cases to prove themselves. We've had autopilot for many decades, but we still have pilots. Our factories are filled with pretty smart robots, but also tons of smarter humans. Some cars drive themselves perfectly 99% of the time, but it turns out that 1% is a HUGE margin of error. Even 0.001% is too much.
The only reason to rush this is greedy, short-sighted, and ultimately self-defeating capitalists who either have the minds of children who can't accept basic inconveniences of reality, or those who know AI won't be ready for decades but are content to lie to others to run off with their money. Either way, the seeming lack of consequences relative to flying airliners, doing surgery, etc, while mean that the idiots with money will utterly ruin software and software development for a decade or so before it's finally obvious to everyone that this is a neat tool than can be refined and made ever more useful, but is not going to just drop in to replace coders 1-1 for a very long time.
h
Satire?
I feel like this is a joke… but I’m laughing.
h
Least obvious ragebait:
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