ProgrammerHumor
myJankIsBetterThanYou
I don't care if it doesn't follow your patterns, it is literally the most optimised and most stable part of the entire codebase.
Discussion
Startup people are built different, they know literally everything in SWE, or have at least heard of it, it's the best bootcamp one can think of.
you get crazy but hey, at least you know a bit of everything and knows how to deal with pressure lol
Only thing you don't learn to deal with, is the bureaucracy that comes with bigger companies and organisations. Pick your poison.
Wdym I need to wait 6 months to download this application because it needs to go through 4 different teams on 3 different timezones?
ok wait what
Back in my internship with a large company (2008), all browsers other than IE6 were blocked by the network from accessing the Internet.
The official Microsoft forums for asking questions about developing in Visual Basic (the only permitted programming language) did not render correctly in IE6.
That's awkwardly right
I'm thinking of moving to startup work after a bunch of my career being the solo dev for an entire academic department.
It seems relaxing, and like there'd be some push for better programming practices there. I'd only have to work on one project, not six, and there'd be less only theoretically solved maths, and no one would hand me a whiteboard full of equations and say "hey, can you just implement this in python"
Oh, brother, how I feel you... I have worked in RSI (Research Software Infrastructure) for a decade, one of the most thankless jobs there is out there, you are responsible for the technical outcome of dozens of project, academics still treat you like shit. I am also trying to jump ship, I wish you (us) good luck!
I'm a bit less RSI now, my current job is in a dev team in the research bit of a hospital, but my old one was "Keep the biology department running"
I had to drill new holes in an expansion card at one point, so it would fit in the old, creaky server that everything ran off. One technical fault was caused by a literal bug - a grasshopper crawled out of a lab, under a switchroom door, and into one of our other servers, where it shorted itself on the network card.
I have seen things, man. Seen *things*
One technical fault was caused by a literal bug - a grasshopper crawled out of a lab, under a switchroom door, and into one of our other servers, where it shorted itself on the network card.
This is gold OMG.
Thank God I have always been on the abstract side of things, so never had to physically interact with the servers our stuff runs on, but rather beg for more VPSs and other resources on a bi-weekly basis. Even though the place I work at has a sys admin it doesn't do more than notarize this kind of requests and forward them to those responsible and maybe takes care of domains, VPN, DNS, etc., that kind of stuff, so we do everything, from k8s to simple scripting. It's a shitshow tbh, e.g. the secops guy has no idea about sec and learns by doing using blog articles, data engineers don't even know how to string together a simple ETL pipeline, and I have to show them how, new hires have consistently been shit for the last two years, and so on.
Such a toxic place, my God.
So, I used to do just the code/abstract side of things, and then we couldn't get the stuff that we needed, so I ended up running our department's small cluster of servers, too, which took less time than dealing with central IT.
It also turns out IT do not like requests like "Ok, so, we have a new gene sequencer that can spit out 20TB of data per 24hrs, and we'd like to buy another 4. Can you help us figure out the networking infrastructure there?"
(It turns out the answer is to drill a lot of holes in walls, and run a fiber cable per sequencer to a processing server stored in a very warm supply closet. It's not a good answer, but it's an answer)
Also, great to meet a fellow RSI - I do enjoy the work, too - implementing new things keeps the chaotic ADHD mess of my brain interested, I've been lucky to have a few supportive bosses, one of who taught me how to get people assigned to pointless committees, which has been weirdly useful.
But I think it's probably time for a move - the rung above me I have to start wearing shirts with collars and attending a lot of meetings, and using words like KPIs, and honestly I'd rather drink random shots from our chemical cupboard than do that.
Yeah, I kept going because I am passionate about RSI in general, and doing research didn't cut it for me, but I love supporting it the best way I can.
But I think it's probably time for a move - the rung above me I have to start wearing shirts with collars and attending a lot of meetings, and using words like KPIs, and honestly I'd rather drink random shots from our chemical cupboard than do that.
That sounds like Silicon-Valley-ization (when a tech venture starts looking like a Silicon Valley startup). They tried with us to instill this new kind of work culture, but failed miserably. I wish you best luck in either countering this or jumping ship ASAP.
I don’t think better programming practices at startups is a thing.
Literally nobody reviews my code. And the codebase has like 5 unit tests. I wrote 2 of them.
it's less relaxing when you realize any startup may not exist in a year.
It's an aspect I'd not considered. Academic contracts tend to be pretty short, but on the other hand you rarely have to testify in court in a misleading investors case.
it's an extreme case but funding can quickly dry up. they can miss paychecks. there's often no HR department. I personally like working at a smaller company, but there are tradeoffs. But then if it's successful you likely will get acquired and can end up working at a megacorp anyway. Working at consulting firms (of various sizes) can provide a nice balance of the feel of the startup and the safety of an established business. But you don't usually get to see the long term vision of a product through to completion.
Funnily the research center of 100 people I did my PhD at had its public funding stopped (Telecommunications wasn't a sexy topic anymore) and closed down after over 20 years of operation. Luckily it was already becoming obvious in the last year so I rushed to get the PhD done and finished it in unemployment after the shutdown.
Funnily I've been at a 10 person startup after that for 7 years (and then acquired by another company). And before my PhD I mostly worked for a 4 ppl company for years. And for my own.
I think almost none of the companies I worked for in some capacity early in my career still exist. Assuming it's not my fault ;) I early on realized the only thing you can build on is your own brand.
But sure, if you join a startup with 8 months of funding, things can get funky;)
This is why all startups succeed and everyone working at a startup is a billionaire.
*Puts off dark glasses and drives off into the sunset laughing *
:D
I worked in 3 startups, the amount of basic knowledge that people who only worked in massive companies lack is impressive.
I don't mean to say that you should all know devops and be full stack engineers, but i saw people with 15 yoe who don't even grasp the basic concepts of anything outside their focus area.
Any examples?
A 15 yoe .net dev did not understand the basic concepts of of k8, like not anything except knew the name.
I also contracted to a company that did not use version control at all, but had 'experienced devs' (legacy industry, but still)
Also, not his expertise, but another .net dev did not know the difference between ts and js.
Im sure people here have many more and better ones.
The number of very very competent (in their narrow domain) c++ devs who don't know a word of bash or powershell is frankly astonishing.
at least that's what they tell you
I didn't know that startup people were experts on Sweden.
I’ve just moved from startup to enterprise, it’s so peaceful here lol
Wait till you need to license some new software.
You'll spend 3 months and $10,000 of people's time to get a $15/month plugin approved that connects 2 systems that already went through enterprise architecture, security & procurement reviews - one of which built the plugin.
Pure joy.
I was going to say it's not peaceful when your running around trying to get software enabled for 6 months
Actually yeah, everything is documented and every implementation is criticised for potential vulnerabilities.
Workload is spread out as well.
Unlike when I was working on a startup, you're the decision maker on every single feature. No senior to check if what you're doing is potential jank lol
Embrace the jank
It's peaceful until all of the following are happening simultaneously: - Management is breathing down your neck to release that feature you built over a month ago because they told their bosses it'd be a big win this quarter - Product management is changing part of the spec last minute because they didn't bring a technical team member to the discovery meetings and are just now realizing the spec they wrote isn't quite what the customers wanted - Security won't sign off on a deployment because they don't understand your threat model/mitigations and won't take the time to pen test it - The crucial integration with that other service can't be deployed until next month for reasons unrelated to your team/code - Pipelines are blocked because of some holiday halfway across the world - Builds are failing because some junior on another team pushed half baked changes to some library you consume deep in your dependency chain
And while you're making phone calls trying to get everyone on the same page, manager is still asking why you haven't gotten this done yet.
Welcome to the dark side of security—where "normal" means 50-page docs and zero fun.
Ah yes cowboys who never had to deal with data-breech laws.
Enterprise business processes are just another puzzle to figure out. Map it out, talk to the senior experts, then have a checklist for yourself so you know what you’ll need to get stuff spun up.
This is why people who have become successful in enterprise are highly sought after for startups - just because you know how to follow an AWS tutorial doesn’t mean you actually know how to set something up securely.
Ah… Enterprise Sec-Ops. Also known as the… “Anti-Productivity” and “Enterprise Bloatware” department, around these parts.
Still at my first job at a startup, after half a year I was pretty much 2nd in command of SWE. And suddenly I had learned the entirety of fullstack .NET development we used. Now I’m cosplaying as both a UX expert and data scientist working only 16 hours a week
I'd rather employ someone from a fairly successful startup than any of the big tech pencil pushers.
Even a failing startup isn't usually failing because of the developers but because of the bad management. (Ignoring AI slop, that is just doomed either way)
Every start-up I've been at had decent to great management. The killer is finding shitty local maxima, pivoting, finding another, over and over again then pop! no more money.
But their startup probably wasn't successful, hence they're getting a new job with you.
Meh, I’m about to leave a successful startup and join another one because after multiple years i want a change. Doesn’t mean the startup is failing.
Wild assumption there, ma dude
You are scaring me. I just got a job in a startup company
Cheer up, you’ll get a chance to keep your MacBook after the startup fails
Enjoy your freedom while you still can.
Sec-ops people have no reason to let you use any modern tool. Why would they change any single thing? They would prefer to sit and watch AI revolution while collecting paycheck. None will keep them accountable for an underdeveloped IT infrastructure.
I didn't scream. I made a demo to managers. As a new data scientist lead recently joined in a multi billion dollar organization, coming from a startup, I prepared a demo Proof of Technology webapp in my own (personal) pc. Then, I presented it by using web link to the board member manager, and said "if you are interested in, this is technology is possible. I did this in 6 hours on the weekend. But I can't even do R&D work in company laptop".
They loved the product idea, and presented it to the president and CEO. Now, CEO talks about my weekend PoT work in the meetings.
Things has been different since them. I don't think Sec-ops team is having a good sleep lately.
how does it feel working for free
I am paid handsomely as a lead data scientist 😊 Great benefits, a lot less work load, 3 times more PTO compared to my previous startup.
Feels great 🔥
I used to work for a startup.
Our security team ties my legs and arms, throws me into the water, and says to my manager: he is ready to swim.
So much fun newly standing up cloud in a risk averse heavily regulated company that chronically underinvested in everything IT for decades.
Every new hire from start up land has an aneurysm when explained the development setup and limitations.
People from large banks that have invested in this for years and have mature tooling pulling their hair out that it just doesn't happen instantly out of a SNOW ticket.
Meanwhile us Stockholm syndrome veterans just shrug and keep working not knowing a better way
Don't you love it when you are told by a large bank to re-develop an existing python package in sql because open source is not safe.
Don't worry. none of this will be wifi connected. It's just for a locally ran process.
Me asking -''So why don't we just install the package and run this in python?''
CFO of headquarter of multi billion$ bank - ''I don't trust open source.''
Me looking at my colleagues at the time. Oo ?
Them looking back -_- .... - ''Just take your wage and do what they ask.''
I am so glad I left the banking industry. And guess what. My wage did not go down when I left. It went up. But at least now I work with people who use their brain.
Oh, so screw: - Linux - git - vim - Firefox - bash - C - C# - C++ - Go - Java - JavaScript - Python - Docker - Node.js - and dozens others that didn't immediately come to mind
If you're even capable of doing any sort of meaningful development without using at least a little bit of open source software, you're almost guaranteed to be a hardware (not software) engineer (and even those guys are almost always using OSS for something in their tool chain).
As a student here who is the sole developer in our pre-startup, it sounds excrutiating
This sounds like my job. Minus the access to a cloud environment. So I guess we’ll just cram everything into the data center servers, most of which are shitty windows VM servers because why would you ever need to run Linux or Docker or use GPUs.