ProgrammerHumor
hammerVsScrewdriver
Discussion
You pay me to build software. You have a project in any modern language, and you pay me, I will learn to love that language.
Can i just put this on my resume and get hired please
Yeah well, if you remove the references to "pay" from that line. You can certainly get hired 😆
You me to build software. You have a project in any modern language, and you me, I will learn to love that language.
If i read that on a resume I will just assume you had a stroke.
Prime software dev material!
You me to build software. You have a project in any modern language, and you me, I will learn to love that language.
🎉
If you me to build software
And you me have project
When language = modern
And you me
I learns.2 love modern
I can never learn to love Java, pre-PHP 7 versions, nor C++. No amount of money will make truley love those languages.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still accept the paycheck for them. I will just whine about it online and to family.
What’s wrong with C++? It’s my favorite
Where to begin. They just kept adding more shit to it without really fixing or cleaning up fundamentals. You have to know a lot of stdlib and boost to do anything useful in practice. Templating. Odd as hell syntax complications that seems to just get worse with every major edition. Endless debates and committee arguments over what's next.
I mean it's cool that C++ is super efficient and everything, but at what cost? I'm not sure I'd touch C++ if I was paid to do it these days. I have nothing against it other than that it's basically just become a giant monster.
Then again I'm unemployed and am capable of working in C++ if I really needed to, so maybe.
Controversially, if I did work in C++, I'd probably try to keep it as C-styled as possible.
Honestly, if you gave me C with all the type safety that C++ has, I'd probably be largely happy. Obviously there's other stuff C++ has that I would like to be able to use, but it wouldn't be the worst version of reality.
You don’t have to use everything the language as to offer. Why can’t people understand that ?
That's true for starting fresh, but with a legacy codebase, you're often forced to use everything it already does.
I still haven't learned to love py.
I will learn it, but I will not love it. I reserve my love for worthy things, like PowerShell.
I was with you til you said powershell.
Nothing in my career has made me flash back to FORTRAN or PERL as much as learning Powershell these last few weeks.
Screams in COBOL
Powershell is pretty great, it's wild to me that it's not used more often for file tasks. I use it to combine and clean up incoming client files before being processed through our ETL.
bash and powershell <3<3<3
It is an enormously useful glue language. I've written ETLs in PowerShell that have been humming away issue free in prod for years.
It's the first language I learned and so in the same way I think in English, I pseudocode in PowerShell.
What if you had free reign of the stack? Whatever you pick is your fav......
unless it's Go
That's a great ideal until you realize that some languages suck at specific tasks, but a fanatic coworker wants to do it anyway.
Your boss: You will love Assembly
I do love it though.
Result: you happy, boss happy
Hello and welcome to our humble Befunge shop.
Oh and our CI system is written in autotools.
Spot on, that being said, if you pay me to work in some language that's clearly not fit for the job, the cost goes up. That's a you issue. I will recommend a suitable tech stack, so if you choose to ignore ignore it, that's on the client.
Nah you won’t love BML
This meme doesn't make sense. Just because different languages have different use cases doesn't mean you can't have a favourite language
What is your favourite tool in your toolbox
Maybe you can say screwdriver or hammer
But it's just a subjective opinion, ideally choosing the programming language for a specific project is not purely subjective when it's a business use case.
There are reasons certain programming languages are used for certain products.
You can still have a favourite language though. I like using my hammer more than I like using my screwdriver. I still wouldn't hammer in screws
Yes you can. But what would others learn by knowing that?
They asked the damn question, they'd learn what your favourite tool is. Why do people want to know your favourite color?
To suss out the people who like yellow.
Oy don't hate on us yellow lovers, we can't be worse than neon likers
Very LinkedIn coded comment. They don't need to learn anything, it's just conversation.
I guess you don't want people to know your favourite food either
whether you'd prefer working with nails or screws in a context where both get the job done?
my preferred tool for attaching 2 pieces of wood is an electric drill/screwdriver, as it gets the job done fairly quickly and securely without having as big a risk of smashing my fingers by a temporary distraction, but for some tasks a hammer and nail is the correct choice
But it’s just a subjective opinion
And? Your meme is literally “when someone asks me about my subjective opinion 🤢”
Agreed, programmers are human, not StackOverflow, who can have opinion based answers
Yes, why do they care? It's not like a movie or a song .my point is choosing a programming language is an objective decision in business.
Maybe they can ask about my proficiency and that makes sense.
God forbid a fella make small talk
Unless you're speaking about job interviews specifically, then it's perfectly normal to ask questions to get to know someone better or to make conversation. They probably have not interest in learning your proficiency because they are not planning on making business with you.
And if you were speaking about job interviews specifically, I would agree with you that it is mostly pointless but 1) you did not specify anywhere that it was about job interviews and 2) it can still be interesting to know how you approach the answer, sometimes a question is asked not for the answer but for how you answer it.
Not everything is about objective decisions in business?
I’ve had hundreds of small, private projects I just did for fun. Most of them are shit and definitely cannot be used to earn money. Of course I choose the language that I think will be the most fun.
My meme is about a professional environment where individual subjective opinions don't make a difference when you have a team who can work in only one or two programming languages.
My mistake on the meme was I didn't provide enough context. Will correct that in future memes.
And why do you care of what they care then?
The question of "What's your favorite programming language?" Has a lot of context behind it.
One could asked it about your preference. One could asked because they are looking up to you. One could asked it just to provoke you.
And yet... Your meme has no context whatsoever about the people behind the question.
Just as answer the damn question in isolation. With decency of course. No need to be condescending.
You may see yourself as a highly intellectual person. But the way you tried to justify your meme, you just an average who only appear taller when everyone around you in down.
If you think everything can be decided objectively in software engineering field, you have a lot to learn.
For example, if I know that 7 out of 8 people in my team prefer language X. I know that choosing language X would provide me better productivity and employee retention. And let say all you need is a website that can handle 100 request per second within budget of Y$ a month. And you know that language x, y and z both satisfied these technical requirement.
In this scenario, it is objectively better from business point of view to choose language x over y and z because people subjectively prefer language x.
Subjectivity matters a lot in software engineering. 50% or more of software engineer problems are people and subjective problems.
Read:
Microservices, Coding style, Go simplicity, Zen of Python, Ruby on Rails developer experience. DevEx platforms, etc.
Objective decisions are not made only based on technical data or performance metrics. It also depends on people's data or anything that can impact the outcome.
Taking your example,
My perspective is that you made an objective decision there. As you analysed all the data to decide on the language
Either you put it on paper or do it in your mind, I would call it objective and not subjective.
Subjective decision is when you choose your favourite language as you think that would be better for that project.
Or you vote it out.
Just because I prefer screwing in screws to hammering nails doesn’t mean I will use a screw as a hammer.
I actually love turning screwdrivers. Screwdrivers aren't the best tool in every circumstance but the feeling of firmly unfastening a screw is much more satisfying than violently making a sticky out bit not that way.
But it's a subjective opinion
Wait until this guy figures out what "favourite" means.
I definitely have preferred tool and disliked tools in my toolbox.
My favourite tool is my bike multitool. I almost never use it.
Even when focusing on hammers or screwdrivers, there is a world between a cheap no-name tool and a non counterfeit high quality one.
Now, while I prefer Ruby and Rust, I do mostly Python and JavaScript/TypeScript. But my favourite programming language is for sure not Python.
My favorite tool in my toolbox is my Milwaukee M18 electric screw driver. It's so smol and so damn versatile. The battery lasts super long. I wish it had a nicer trigger pull curve though, it's hard to go slow with it.
The fact I like the electric screw driver says a lot about the kinds of projects I like to work on. I hate my hand saw, I think hammers are gross, the nail gun is especially gross, and the corded drill can go fuck itself. I still will use these tools if I have to, but I wouldn't want to be paid to use those things, I'd hate living.
In the post the caption specifically says for subjective opinion, not what language you would choose for anything
Right, but "what is your favorite" is a question intended to gauge your subjective opinion.
My favorite tool is my screwdriver. It’s a nice one. I frequently use my other tools as well, but that’s my favorite one.
"It is childish to favor one tool over another... but hammer is my favorite" - Ornn
As an ex-tradesman who got into computer science, there is a lot of talk about what our favorite tools are, and the actual conversation is much more synonymous with programming languages than your example.
You don't compare a hammer vs a screwdriver, but you do compare a socket wrench vs an impact driver; or diagonals vs linemans, or Dewalt vs Milwaukee; things that can do each others jobs, and they have their own strengths vs weaknesses.
Synonymous with programming languages, there are reasons certain tools are used for certain jobs, but there are a lot of tools, and if the work is done right, it can be totally up to preference. In the electrical side, the conversation around what wirenuts are best is a hot fuckin debate, seriously go on professional subreddits for HVAC or Electricians and see what people are saying about Wagos vs Wirenuts, or hop on the plumbing subreddits and see the hot topic of propress vs soldering; this is a lively conversation topic amongst professionals about preferences in their work, and there's real reasons to discuss these sorts of things; let alone that it's just fun to talk about.
My favourite tool is the hammer, by far.
lmao delete this, what an L take
My guy people do have favorite tools lmfao
Like some people enjoy using a lathe or a band saw or a scroll saw or a table saw. Some people love really fancy joinery power tools and others prefer to painstakingly chisel them.
In the same vein, I use C++ every day but I don't like C++. It's a disaster of different programming paradigms with syntax hell and a dozen ways to shoot yourself in the foot per-line.
But it’s just a subjective opinion
i mean… yeah? that’s how favourites work. by definition, they are subjective.
- Asks a subjective question
- Gets subjective answer
- Complains about it
But I'd rather screw in screws than nail in nails
I think the metaphor is bad, it's more like two different tool brands. Milwaukee versus DeWalt for example. they both offer more or less the same tools. But they might focus more in different areas.
It's not always hammer versus screwdriver. Sometimes its Dewalt Drill versus Harbor Freight drill and Python is Harbor Freight.
whats dewalt in this scenario? and btw im considering harbor freight to be the superior one here
Probably Java. Java devs love porting out how slow Python is.
why use many word when few work, java makes my brain hurt
There are people who love programming, started early as children and probably do it as a hobby parallel to a job. We do have a favorite language. And there are people who see it as just work, so why would they have a favorite language
Just tell them CSS and watch them make that face.
C# bro, I take my CNC lathe over your chisels, hammers and screwdrivers any day
*2 axis lathe
I hate python less than others
Homelander: Whitespace
Why would it offend you? Seems odd. Like doctors and lawyers, some languages are just better than others.
html!
C
Well, from a technical standpoint I have to say C#. Reasonably fast and reasonably easy to write.
From a pure comfort standpoint, python obviously.
Rust.
Which one do I hate?
JavaScript. Java. VB, VB.NET, Python, Bash, ...
+1 from my side
We can all agree to hate Java. Especially older version of Java, like Java 8 and 11.
And not VB??? I'm leaving VB.NET out of the questions
My secret love is awk.
I have a soft spot for ruby. It's utterly useless to me as a neuro roboticist, since AI and robotics are predominantly done in python and C++, but writing code in ruby is just a lot of fun, the syntax and definitions just make sense to me. I have to check out crystal at some point.
I definitely have a favourite language.. c# after that comes python and then maybe Go.
But i also have my least favourite language. Javascript
It depends.
Simple shell scripting? bash
Microcontroller development? C
KDE / QT development? C++
Minecraft mods? Java
Interaction between different applications? Python
...
It all depends on the task at hand.
Damn did CS majors start early this year?
I like using those papers with the hole punches in them to program. Guis and monitors are overrated
Java because I'm used to it and most comfortable with it. Came to appreciate the patterns due to experience.
It's like the 'Android or IPhone' question. Quickest way to stop them is 'Nokia'.
CPU microcode
Profanity is mine
In The Last Kingdom (First book of The Saxon Stories) the smith who forges the sword for the protagonist, when he wants to adorn this sword, serpent-breath, says:
“It’s a tool, lord,” he said, “just a tool. Something to make your work easier, and no better than my hammer.”
IDK maybe I like hammering stuff more than I like sawing stuff, but I would do both for money.
Language wars are stupid, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that I prefer how this language expresses things or I like how this language forces me to approach problems. That can coexist with using the right tool for the job.
Homelander shreds Pascal.
The only correct answer is 'Whichever one gets the job done without making me want to throw my computer out the window.'😂
You're implying that someone might not enjoy screwing things more than hammering something, or vice versa.
The right choice doesn't have to be your favorite choice.
sleeping
Dreamberg is the way
Answer: Delphi 🫡
I have been working for 4 years and I don't have favourite language. Doesn't make sense to me. I just use whichever language makes my life easier to build a certain project.
For enterprise grade projects I just default to java and for AI ML projects i default to python
Whatever language I need to use for a service I'm currently developing or supporting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The ones that makes money
“There are programming languages other than C++?”
OK, but I prefer screwdriving to hammering. Obviously a hammer is the only thing to use for hammering-related tasks, by I PREFER screwdriving-related tasks, because I prefer using the screwdriver.
Ya feel me?
You can have a favorite tool
html...5
None, they all suck, some suck less than others at some tasks
I'm going to predict the future. Ready? Nobody will program code manually in a year or two. And all code will be written in C by coding agents. And everyone will look back and laugh about how we would fill internet forums with "which language is best".
Ok smart guy then do you prefer the hammer or the screwdriver?
Tbh it's not as bad as some other questions like "can I program X in Y" or "what is the best language (without mentioning best at what)"
On the other end, fuck Java
God forbid people have fun while programming.
ChatGPT?
You can still have a favorite programming language even if it's not the best choice for everything
programming languages are tools to build something, asking for fave prog language is like asking a carpenter his favorite hammer... yes they have a favorite hammer though
My favorite is Ruby. I haven't used it in a while, I'm stuck using C# since I'm doing 3d game development in Godot.
Me saying OpenSCAD and freaking out both the other control engineers and the mechanical engineers.
"Sar, I'm putting my screwdriver... Everywhere".
I may not have a favorite language - but to hell with any language where I cant explicitly give my variables types.
C# my beloved
But "favorite", "most used by you", "best for ..." and "you're good at" are completely different categories
For me it’s HTML!
Rust and C
C, it's basically just reading documentation and working out logic. No need to remember 9 billion different types and 6 billion ways to navigate a list, everyone and every thing has a compiler for it, keeps security researchers employed, everyone wins!
What's your favorite function? The Ackermann function. What does it do? Fuck all. It's just used for a proof.
Trying to pick a favorite programming language is like trying to choose a favorite child, it's impossible... but if it's JS don't invite me to the family gatherings 😅
The one that's the best for the job at hand.
Lisp.
/s
I prefer screwdrivers over hammers tough
Ah yes, the Spikes of the workforce. As long as the tool gets the job done they honestly can’t comprehend why one would have a preference. The joy is in learning and succeeding after all.
Personally I like using screwdrivers a lot more than I like using hammers and I find using a saw tedious.
The one that pays me
I mean, it can reveal what sorts of projects or ecosystems a person likes to spend time in. A stupid question is "What's the best language?", but asking your favorite one is a fair one imo.
This is what I was going to comment. There can definitely be languages you can enjoy more, I definitely have some. Of course, if people pay me to program, I'm using any language as long as it pays well
Yup, it depends. Embedded systems and game engines? I’ll use C++. Enterprise software? Java. Web? JavaScript. Expansive asynchronous architecture? Go/Rust (depending on how much concurrency I need and how fast I need the executions to be) or JavaScript. Do I expect it to need web based at some point? JavaScript. Computer Vision and Model training? Python. Etc.
You pick the tool that works best.
Ah yes, for asynchronous architecture either the easiest language on the planet or the most difficult language on the planet. Got you
It’s worked well for me.
Do I need a shitload of concurrency happening rapidly? Go/Rust.
Do I need a shitload of concurrency that’s spread out (I.e. over APIs)? JavaScript.
Javascript is pretty good for async servers where you don't need any background proccesses or cpu intensive tasks. And for those rust/go is perfect. Unless there's a very complex domain than c# all the way
Whatever gets the job done per the requirements.
Love my C#. It just makes sense. But I'm doomed to Javascript.
I love reading and writing Python. But I hate missing a tab resulting in my code failing. I also prefer when code go zoom. Thus I end up in C++
Missing a tab is something that hasn't happened to me in the last 3 years. Are you using notepad++ to code?
It can very well happen even with proper IDE. Just call a function in a cycle instead of after it, and have the function do something that makes sense once, else it corrupts logic. Tadaaa, your IDE will not show anything, cause it's not a syntax issue, rather a logic issue... And then you have to debug. Sometimes it's easy to see, sometimes... It takes quite some time to find the bug.
Even ignoring the possibility of someone associating a language with the projects they've used it for, different languages have different syntax and language features, so there are actual reasons to compare languages even if there's no overlap in use cases
True, it's more like asking about your favorite tool than making some grand statement. My answer changes based on what I'm working on anyway
yea very stupid to ask what's the best programming language because the answer is so obvious. you know what im talking about, it's THE programming language... the one you're thinking of right now, i know we all know it. it's that one, the best one... you know it.
Yeah my favorite is a completely fair question. Which can also be a multi-faceted answer, e.g. for X I like A and for Y I like B.
That fits tools too. It would be totally valid for someone to say for example, hammers are fun and screwdrivers are boring. You can absolutely prefer when a job requires the one you enjoy more.
For most programming problems the analogy is more like automatic drill vs screwdriver For most problems you really can pick the language/tool you prefer, e.g. building a basic website you really can just say, "I like C#, JavaScript, Ruby, etc so I'm using that". Just like if you're building some basic furniture you really can use a drill or screwdriver for most screwdriving. It's only when you have more specific concerns do you really need to be like "I know I prefer A language/tool, but because of Y I need to use B."
So your favorite language is typically just, when allowed to use any language, what language do you use.
I disagree. It's a like teenagers talking about their favorite band. Just no.
I don’t understand your analogy. What’s wrong with teenagers talking about their favorite band?
Ok I take everything back