apple
Phone and text messages: Apple opens up core iPhone functions in the EU (EU users on iOS 26 will be able to use non-Apple apps to send text messages (RCS, SMS, MMS) and make traditional phone calls).
Discussion
Does anybody here remember bitesms? It was a very popular app that could be installed on jailbroken iPhones, and it basically added a ton of features that were missing at the time. I suppose this new iOS update enables apps like bitesms to just be in the App Store, which is cool.
Apple sherlocked essentially all of bite’s features to the messages app except text scheduling
you can schedule a text in iMessage now, I’m not sure when they added it. Hit the + button and scroll down to Send Later
I loved that back in ‘12-‘13 when I would jailbrak my phone.
Those where the days, look how much time it needed until we get what we already were able to have many years ago.
I just hoped they implemented it the other way around. It would be amazing to use whatsapp, messenger and so on from the messages app
Meta is working on this as both Whatsapp and Messenger are subject to the DMA. You can follow the link here to see their compliance reports that outline what they've done and are doing (not allowed to link their domain) but basically in another year or two we should be able do exactly that if Apple builds support into their app -
https://digital-markets-act-cases.ec.europa.eu/reports/compliance-reports
Yeah same. It's all the other messaging apps that I want to remove from my life.
Not after their acquisition
Weird Windows Phone didn’t get anywhere when it was pushing stuff like this…
The thing I don’t get with interoperability is how I’m supposed to feel secure about the other person? So i text a picture to someone, but that someone installed a sketchy text app that saves my messages in the cloud. I send my location to someone, and their sketchy location app keeps a record of my location. Maybe there’s something I don’t know about how secure these things are but that’s my concern. Of course someone malicious could share these things, but my grandparents wouldn’t do it knowingly.
I agree. iMessage being locked to only Apple devices gives some idea of how secure the other side is, even though they could of course have a compromised Mac or run some bridge to less secure environments, but then you can probably judge how likely it is that person would do that.
There is also Phone Link for Windows…
Yea, this was what Apple was fighting for. This is what we have had with iOS. This was the trade off for not allowing ‘what the fuck ever’.
Thank the radical ‘I want open garden so you have to have open garden’ weirdos who were mad they are using Android.
It's a bad thing but also a good thing.
Locking up features to create a trust environment. You trust Apple to take care of you. let's not debate if Apple really cared but that's the reason many people buy an iPhone. I do believe Apple cared on some areas but not on some others. The bad thing is that Apple is no longer able to provide such trust.
However, you need to understand that in reality, the content you sent to others are out of your control. It doesn't matter if a malicious person is using iMessage or other sketchy app, they will find out a way to save the message you sent to them. You need to trust the person you exchange information with and not to blindly trust Apple. By making you more aware of protecting yourself is a good thing.
But it’s not about trust it’s about competency. Half the users out there are blindly fumbling their way through technology. Go to any non-tech white collar job and look at the disparity between the smartest most trusted people in the company and their IT literacy. Older people, children, and the technologically inept are all targets for bad actors. They see one pop up ad that says “your grandson sent you a message! Download Sketchy Text to read” and now all your messages to grandma are being fed to some server.
Security with messages has been an issue with mass adopted, trusted apps, so why wouldn’t it happen with malicious apps?
Did you just downvote me? I’m not against your idea at all. I’m just saying it’s a bad thing but also a good thing.
It’s true people are dumb it’s best if they are protected.
But it’s also true that they don’t get to learn the consequences of blindly trusting a third party (in this case Apple) if they stay protected.
wow. unbelievable.
The thought behind this is that the EU is very anti-monopoly. If you reach a certain size of user base, you can’t gatekeep features to yourself which can lead to monopolistic behavior. Importantly, you don’t have to give everything away. You just need to provide an option in settings or in the first time set-up to choose something else. Like a different browser than Safari. Or now a messaging app. That’s it.
It’s hard to imagine as a US citizen that you would use anything but the built in features, but in the rest of the world the ecosystem of phones and apps on phones is so much more vibrant. It’s wild how little choice you have in the US, once you get to know what exists.
You can sometimes see hints of this in smartphone reviewers like MKBHD or The Verge saying things like there being amazing phones out there, but they are sad they don’t get to review them because they’re not available in the US.
This logic only works under the assumption that the users are not passive and find the first party app to be bad.
Google Search is not baked-in in the sense that you cannot change the default search engine, yet the antitrust authorities think this is highly problematic. I don’t think your average user is going to opt for another search engine even if there was a choice screen.
In the EU we also had a choice screen on Windows for web browser selection because antitrust authorities found tying Internet Explorer with Windows problematic, yet no one really used that choice screen. Though the issue with Internet Explorer was tougher, because Microsoft literally baked the code into the OS.
It wasn’t even possible to change the default search engine on iPhones until regulators in the US and EU intervened. It was just like with what you say in the situation with Microsoft: it was baked in the OS.
If it wasn’t for forcing Microsoft to make changes (both in the EU and back when the US actually did most of the big regulations), Chrome and Firefox wouldn’t have been able to get a foot of the ground.
The assumption is that giving users a choice will let them make it if they so desire, but they should have the choice. If a platform is too large, it’s impossible to make a different choice because no other viable options exist. Therefore, if the platform is so large that you can’t avoid it combined with not being able to change a default - you will be screwed as a consumer and the market will not be able to provide viable alternatives because a market cannot exist.
I am pretty sure you could easily change your search engine to Bing or Yahoo or DuckDuckGo whenever you wanted. What you couldn’t change was the default web browser, which has nothing to do with the search engine.
Sure, but just the choice will not do the trick without interoperability. And text messaging apps are most likely not going to change the way digital markets work. What they should have done is mandate interoperability for things like Messenger and Google Search. Then choice would make sense, because network effects and (lack of) data would no longer be problematic.
No, you could only change the search engine from iOS4 in 2010 after regulatory pressure from the US and EU.
Text messaging apps do have a big impact on the market. It’s the main reason why people feel stuck in the US in switching phones, because iMessage isn’t interoperable. In the EU WhatsApp is the biggest messaging app, and they’re being forced to be interoperable as you suggested. To make that possible, companies like Apple cannot gatekeep core features.
Which means that for the past 15 years you could change your search engine. In 2013, Google Search had like 66% market share, yet users did not chose to change the default search engine since it has 90% market share now.
That is indeed correct and thanks for looking up and adding data, but in your example there is much more happening (unfortunately…). Earlier this year Google lost a US monopoly case because of extremely unfair business practices in many areas, where the court has decided that they are a monopoly in the search market (I’m reducing it for readability, check out tech websites for more details - I recommend The Verge). This includes paying Apple $20 billion dollars a year (!) to help them stay the default. The deal will have to stop and they’re even at risk of losing Chrome as a browser. The monopoly of Google (not my opinion, this has been decided by US courts) is the problem why even though there is a choice, it is extremely difficult to switch search engines because Google made it so that their competitors can’t create viable ones. But that should change as the courts are currently trying to correct the market by giving Google severe penalties, and us consumers should notice somewhere in the coming 5 years.
I read that 286-long judgement by the DC District Court by the way. And yes, those agreements for being the default did violate US antitrust law, but the Court also noted that Firefox experimented by putting Bing as default for two weeks and about 60% of users switched back to Google by themselves.
I know of the issues, but what I wanted to illustrate is that merely being able to choose cannot fix the network effects problem. Precisely because Google Search’s market share skyrocketed even after you could easily change your default Search Engine, there is no way mere choice will fix instant messaging or other services. Though it is true that Google Search is specific because of its reliance on user data.
That’s why I think choice alone therefore will not fix any issues.
I agree. It’s a piece of a bigger puzzle.
Are you talking about Chinese OEM’s who flood the market with cheap crap and spyware then spend BOATLOADS of money on YouTube creators with gifts and lavish trips?
Nope, haven’t seen that in EU stores
I’ll never understand why people want to mix sms which is old, insecure and can sometimes cost extra, with better messaging from 3rd party services… but Americans seem to love that. Weird.
I may not have followed the lead up to this, but did anyone actually want this or ask for this, or is this another fine piece of EU regulation that no one asked for?
I mean, ultimately, you're just getting more choice. The default apps aren't going anywhere. Some people will see the utility in this, those who don't will just shrug their shoulders and keep on as they were. No harm done.
No one asked for it, literally no one uses iMessage or texting/mms/rcs in europe, the default way to contact people here is with whatsapp or facebook messenger
Literally no one I know uses whatsapp. 90% of my friends and colleagues use iMessages. Alternatively, FB Messenger, but only if they are older than 40.
Where in europe?
Denmark. WhatsApp is a pretty popular app in Denmark 🇩🇰(in fact it’s even listed as the #1 social media app in the App Store) so I’m thinking OP u/schacks is one of those Europeans who refuse to use WA or alternatives just to stay on iMessage and Apple services, which isn’t surprising they’re replying on a post specifically regarding this topic on an Apple forum. So I don’t think OP’s experience anywhere close to the average Dane.
I don’t know about Denmark in general, but as I said, no one in my circle uses whatsapp on a regular basis. My workplace uses Signal for messaging and Teams for everything else.
Denmark
You must be one of those people really stuck in the i-cosystem 😢
In Europe, WhatsApp is widely used, particularly in Southern and Western European countries. Spain, Germany, and the UK are among the top users, with high penetration rates among internet users. Other countries like Italy, Portugal, and Ireland also show significant WhatsApp usage. In contrast, some Northern European countries like Sweden have Messenger as their most popular messaging app.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Spain: WhatsApp is the most popular messaging app with 33 million users and is widely used for both personal and business communication.
Germany: WhatsApp is the dominant messaging app, with a large majority of Germans using it regularly. United Kingdom: WhatsApp is also very popular, with a large percentage of internet users using the app daily.
Italy, Portugal, and Ireland: These countries also show high WhatsApp penetration rates among internet users.
Sweden: In contrast, Messenger is the most popular messaging app in Sweden.
Other European Countries: WhatsApp is generally popular in many other European countries, though the specific usage varies.
Here in the netherlands where i live its basically 99% whatsapp among all ages, my grandma in the retirement home even uses it.
Texting, imessage, mms or rcs are usually not even considered in most of europe.
No one asked for it, literally no one uses iMessage or texting/mms/rcs in europe
This is false, and also completely irrelevant since this doesn’t concern iMessage. You sound like you suffer from “everyone is like me” syndrome.
The EU identified interoperability as important - what developers will use this for is yet to be seen.
Another piece no one asked for, except Big Developer who wants to suck up all your data.
It’s definitely not something I wanted or care about: I use Apple because I want to use iOS, not Android… but I presume it’s blanket legislation to avoid loopholes that Apple may wish to exploit to hinder other apps and services that need access to said core system features.
The result of this though in the end is that EU citizens get a worse version of iOS in general than the rest of the world. Example being iOS 26 in which half of the new features just aren't available because of regulations.
Opening up doesn’t make it worse necessarily. This “change default apps” doesn’t change anything for me.
However, a “let all brands do iPhone mirroring” hinders on security and more. That’s a problem and that would make EU’s iOS worse.
That is simply untrue. Only bad move from Apple is to deny access to iphone screen mirrorring feature on your mac.
Every other single feature of that OS is available on my French iPhone. EU isn't breaking anything. Phone/SMS apps can be replaced on Android since ages, no one does it but you can. Here it will be the same, no one will do it but you will be able to if you want to (why would you I don't know, maybe for actual SMS read receipts but that's a looooong overdue)
Visited places in Maps for example isn't available either, and live activities on Mac are set to be removed because it's too close to the mirroring functionality.
The question also remains: why does this need to be legislated? As you said, no one does it on Android either, and it's certainly nice to have the ability, but to such an extent that companies need to be forced and fined?
Yes.
The reason: android-iOS are de facto a monopoly (technically a duopoly, but the point still stands).
The cost to develop a new OS is absurd, and, as Microsoft showed us with windows phone, it’s almost impossible to compete
so we punish the ones who did it anyway?
No, we just try to let Some competitors arise.
If Apple offers the state-of-the-art apps, then they got nothing to fear, right?
yes, right! but they still have to waste resources on stuff that does not benefit them
Oh no, poor Apple.
Will Nobody think of Apple’s thinly stretched development resources!!!
The fact that half of the new features aren't available in Europe is normal state of iOS since it's beginning and it has nothing to do with regulation. They regularly introduce features late or not at all outside of US and English language. For example predictive keyboard for my language was release in iOS 18 (!!!). Something you could have on a cheap Samsung phone like 15 years ago.
Not many people in the EU use iMessage. It’s SMS or some other chat app like Messenger or Whatsapp. On Android you can assign your that app to manage also SMS (if it supports it). On iOS, you have to switch to Messages for SMS. But the reason for this regulation is probably more simple - Apple is large enough to be co sidered a gatekeeper and that means they should offer choice and open apis for some stuff, including SMS.
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According to Meta, they have implemented quite a few changes to Whatsapp and Messenger (both designated DMA "gatekeepers") to provide similar interoperability - https://www.spiceworks.com/tech/tech-general/news/whatsapp-third-party-interoperability-dma-compliance-signal-protocol/
No one in their right mind wants or needs this
I don’t think many ppl d even care to change them. majority uses the default apps
Lame
Does this mean I could use Google Messages on iPhone and have RCS there (no operator in my country supports RCS in iOS yet...)?
Cool but no one is going to implement this just for EU anyway. Same as other browser engines in EU, no major player really cares
I just hope I can leave it default easily. I refuse to use meta products so I don't want WhatsApp or Facebook messenger or any of that garbage infecting my phone or any of my family members having their messaging taken over by those shitty apps
Pros and cons because the DMA would also eventually require inter-operability between WhatsApp, Telegram, and etc.
Just in time for EU’s ban on encryption lol.
EU can suck eggs. They suck and anything “good” is immediately outdone and reversed by the bad.
My opinion anyways
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It’s very interesting they don’t give a shit about consoles despite consoles literally being the same thing: computers that run software licensed for use by its maker.
People have always had choice. There’s now less choice in the EU for tech.
But hey, EU acolytes will ride a trillion dollar government into banning encryption, so…
Because consoles are specialised entertainment devices. They're not general purpose computing devices and messaging apps that are pretty much required to use in the modern world. The console market is also not just less important but also significantly smaller. Apple sells more iPhones in a single year that all consoles combined sell in an entire generation.
I cant reply to @Extra_Exercise5167 because @PeakBrave8235 blocked me for this comment lmao. Replying and then blocking to get the last word in is a banable offence in many subs, and it just makes you look pathetic.
Phones left being specialised phoning devices after smartphones became a thing, do you only make calls calls and text on your iPhone? And people need to stop putting Apple on a pedestal and not just see them as a company trying to maximise their profits and stock value. Oh no big billion dollar developers coming after my poor itty bitty little multi-trillion dollar conglomerate.
Because consoles are specialised entertainment devices.
And so suddenly they become immune to competition laws and licensing? LOL. That is not a valid legal argument.
It’s a legal argument only in the minds of politicians bought out by billionaire Big Developers.
Because consoles are specialised entertainment devices.
phones are specialized phoning devices
stop trying to make the EU looking like the good guys when it comes to tech
In an ideal world, everyone would be privacy-conscious and use E2EE iMessage, but Android users don't care about privacy because muh customization and ruin it for the rest of us. Thank goodness I don't live in Europe.
In your ideal world, everyone uses one company’s messaging product?
Is there a problem with that? If it were Meta or Google then yes, but Apple has been quite clear on its privacy stance. If everyone only used Signal you wouldn't bat an eyelash.
No, I generally think it’s bad to trust one company with a whole world’s messaging! iMessage is great but having one option in the world is asking for a bad time, even if Apple at this moment is privacy-focused.
Trusting a capitalistic organisation to not succumb to abusing it's customers the second there's financial pressure is foolishness to the n-th degree.
I certainly trust Signal more than I trust Apple, but a monoculture will always be less resilient than a diverse ecosystem.
Im not sure what security and encryption has to do with sms, mms and (basic) RCS, all of which are not.
Wouldn’t they use Signal, which is multi platform and does not default to unsecured sms if something isn’t correct?
How am I not familiar with any of these things? 😂
Signal on iPhone is about to get a whole lot better (in the EU, anyway).
Signal no longer supports SMS (On Android), and never supported RCS, not sure this would change anything.
BTW, love Signal, just clearing that up.
That’s sad to hear…
Not really. I mean the point is encryption, which SMS never had.
If they supported RCS Universal Profile 3.0 with encryption thatd be cool though.
Good luck getting anyone to install and use Signal. iMessage is by far the best alternative because of its market penetration and privacy by default.
iMessage claims privacy, but if either person in a conversation has iCloud backups turned on without Advanced Data Protection, Apple can be compelled to hand over decrypted message content.
Signal doesn’t have that vulnerability because it doesn’t back up messages to the cloud at all and keeps everything zero-knowledge.
Privacy isn’t just about encryption, it’s about who holds the keys. Apple often does. Signal doesn’t.
Virtually nobody uses the default messaging app in the EU
Yes, they use malware by Meta instead.
It is what it is.
Perhaps if Apple made it open and brought it over to Android it’d be an option, but that’s not the case is it.
Sure thing, bud
People still believe that crap?
Well that guy is an American.
It’s end to end encrypted.
Do you have evidence it isn’t private?
Your E2EE is worthless of both ends end up on the iCloud.
Do you know what Advanced Data Protection is? It just makes everything E2EE, including phone backups. Doesn't matter where the data is stored, it's encrypted.
Read this article. It matters where the data is stored, especially the encryption keys.
Okay, so do you know what E2EE is then?
That article is not talking about Advanced Data Protection, it's talking about the normal encryption that Apple has always had (for certain services) where they hold the keys. Advanced Data Protection provides E2EE for everything so that Apple cannot access your data even if they tried.
Well you can turn off the iCloud backup if you want.
Doesn’t help if people your texting turn it on, it backs up the convo on their account.
That’s fair. The government has strong armed Apple into some accounts.
It's to end encrypted.
That seems pretty private to me.
Unfortunately no. If any person you’re texting has iMessage synced with iCloud backup then it can be retrieved by the government.
Thanks for that, Phil.