Also the z warriors is a dumb name i propose the dragon brawlers
Goku isn't a superhero. He thinks it's a dick move, obviously, but he's not gonna go out of his way to go and save people when he could be training instead
That's just how they always are. Goku let Piccolo, Vegeta, and even Frieza go in Z.
He let Ma Junior live so they could keep the Dragonballs in play as well as spare Kami’s life.
Sparing Vegeta was actual selfishness on his end and he admitted it.
Goku thought he really did kill Freeza.
Piccolo was a combination of making sure Kami stays alive and keeping his rival around. They could have also tried sealing him with the mafuba instead of letting him go free.
Goku tried to spare Frieza twice before that final attack, once when saying he was satisfied with having proved himself stronger than Frieza and the second when he gave Frieza energy.
Point is, Goku is willing to just let villains go, the only difference between his 2 attempts to spare Frieza on Namek and post ToP is that Frieza actually agreed to just leave instead of keep fighting.
He was totally all in for killing Cell when he wasn’t the one who had to do it though.
But I digress. You’ve made your point and I can’t argue it.
It's not that Goku goes into every fight thinking "I'll spare them." If he thinks he can end the fight without killing them, he will. If he thinks killing his opponent is necessary, he will. The spirit bombs he used against Vegeta and Frieza were definitely meant to kill, but that didn't stop him from sparing them afterwards anyway. Goku can just switch whether or not to kill someone mid-fight depending on the circumstances.
Because they don't really care about what happens beyond Earth. If someone came to ask for their help I bet they'd go but they wouldn't proactively seek Freiza out.
They also know that Frieza will come to them eventually and they need to be as strong as possible when that happens.
They DID go to help the Heeters when asked.
Of course they were being paid and lured by "strong guy" so I guess technically they were once again being Saiyan mercenaries.
Because toriyama likes Frieza. That’s why he made Cell Frieza 2.0
Reviving Freeza wasn’t even the right move for the ToP. If they had to revive a villain, revive Cell. He has the potential of Freeza’s race and the Saiyans. Throw his ass in the time chamber. It took Freeza six months to unlock Golden Form. Cell already has the equivalent of Super Saiyan 2. Instead of 6 months, he’d have a year. Cell is less “evil” than Freeza. He doesn’t care about conquest or subjugation. Post perfection, he is like Goku and just wants to fight strong guys, he is just more of an asshole about it.
Honestly, like most of Super, it is just poor writing. There isn’t really much logic to it. You could head canon it as “Goku knows he and Vegeta could take Freeza and want the chance to fight him again”, but like c’mon it’s Freeza. He’s basically space Hitler. It is just weak writing to attempt to sate fans (even though this largely does the opposite) and allows for easily manufactured hype and conflict in the future.
There was no Cell to revive. His soul would have reincarnated after that long. Freeza is the exception, not the rule, in that he managed to hold on to his sense of self and keep his soul unclean
That aside, Goku chose Freeza because they were on short notice and he knows he had become insanely powerful. Short as in like, less than an hour to go. Even if Cell still existed to be revived, that isn't nearly enough time to bring him back and get him caught up to pace with the rest of the major characters
Would cell even have a soul being an android?
It's an open question, though given that he was biological in nature rather than purely mechanical like 16 or 19, I lean towards the answer being yes
I'm leaning towards the no side but I'm not fully convinced though. He was created by Dr Gero and his computer but King Kai was surprised he didn't see Cell's soul in the afterlife.
Either way, id like to see him brought back somehow. He has always been one of my favorite characters.
Sorry, best you get is Cell Max
Didn’t you hear, they’ve dropped the max. It’s just Cell again.
Sorry a HBO joke.
He was in hell in GT
We all were ;P
Which doesn't really mean anything, because it directly contradicts Dragon Ball, where we're outright told the way Hell works is that the soul is cleansed of its memories and reincarnated.
I mean, sure. Them writing that about Freeza’s soul was just so they could put Freeza back in the story. The could have done the same for Cell. Neither really makes much sense when you consider how fast Buu reincarnated. Like Freeza somehow kept his sense of self intact but Cell couldn’t, with Freeza genes and Saiyan pride to boot? It’s just sloppy to me all around.
Neither really makes much sense when you consider how fast Buu reincarnated
Enma heard Goku and expedited the process of Buu's reincarnation as a thank you to him. It's not clear how long a soul ordinarily takes in hell, but Cell had certainly been dead long enough that his soul would have been reincarnated by then
And yes, from a Doylist perspective, if Toriyama had wanted, he certainly could've made Resurrection C instead. But again, even from a real life perspective, by the time the Tournament of Power is being written, I can't exactly fault Goku for his logic even if we do assume Cell could be brought back
Last he checked with Cell, his strength would be a neg diff to him or Vegeta, and he'd just be fodder to the Tournament of Power, which he knows has an upcoming God of Destruction, and someone even stronger than that. Last he checked with Freeza, he was above his level. Even unaware of Freeza's mental training over the past year or so in hell, he could still logically put up a really good fight that Cell wouldn't even come close to
That’s why I said throw him in the time chamber for a day, with training Cell could overtake Freeza in no time.
That's why the other commenter also said that they were extremely short on time by the time Goku decided on Freeza. The original plan was Buu until the very last minute when he fell asleep. They didn't have a day to throw Cell in the Time Chamber to train him.
Man I remember having this same argument on Tik tok the other day. And I forgot all about buu being on the team for a whole day pretty much, which would’ve made explaining why Cell wouldn’t work (even narratively) much easier. It’s surprising that after 5 years there’s still people who think Cell would’ve worked.
Just like freizas power up being written in, cells also could have been written in.. On the side of that his potential for growth is also higher than freiza. He could easily zenkai during the t.o.p. And before you say zenkai was retconned you can't argue that with cell because after he hit his perfect form all his boosts came from exactly that. This is the writing he was based on.
The first (and only) time Cell benefitted from his Saiyan DNA giving him a near-death recovery power up was him miraculously surviving a self-destruction that he fully expected to die from
In that regard, his durability inherited from Freeza and Cold and his regenerative abilities inherited from Piccolo put a borderline insurmountable wall between him and his ability to benefit from the Saiyan near-death recoveries
A wall yes, impossible to overcome? No. If that was the case he wouldn't have been able to do it the first time.. Anything that can happen once can and will happen again.. It doesn't matter what it is especially when you take writing into perspective.. Logic has no reason and reason has no logic.
Of course it's possible - that's why I chose the words I did. But getting it to happen a second time is extremely unlikely. Only two characters have ever actively pursued near-death recoveries, one being Vegeta who was extremely desperate and was counting on someone with healing powers to instantly fix him up, and the other being manga Goku Black, who had someone with healing powers to instantly fix him up. Neither of those characters can survive having their bodies cut in half or shredded to pieces, nor can they instantly regenerate lost body parts
(I'm aware that, obviously, if TPTB wanted it to happen, it would, but I'm looking at it from an in-universe perspective)
Frieza is actually a good choice, just not for any of the reasons Goku gives. Cell is the kind of rash and chaotic that makes him unreliable. Frieza is conniving and devious, but he's predictable in the sense that he is always serving his own greater self-interest. Frieza would not throw the tournament or betray the team just for the shit of it. Cell might.
Cell would have been an even more liability than Freeza.
They should have gotten Future Trunks instead, I still legit cannot believe that they fumbled with his character again at the end of the Goku Black arc.
Future Trunks would have been a beast in the TOP, with his pragmatic and no nonsense attitude, I could even see him joining forces with C-17 and C-18 to wipe the floor with several of the other enemies ASAP.
I mean yeah there are other far better options than a villain. I was saying if they had to revive a villain, Cell would have been the way to go. I disagree about him being more of a liability. With Cell you know what you are getting. He’s basically a Saiyan, and once he’s perfect he just really only cares about fighting strong dudes. Freeza is all about conquest and subjugation and actual villainy.
Exactly, been saying this for years. Perfect Cell just letting everyone go after his evolution, knowing damn well they'll return much stronger just for the thrill of the fight, he's literally just a saiyan at heart, the prospect of the top would've likely been enough for him to be like "you son of a bitch, I'm in". Much better personality to work with, more potential, higher starting strength than freezer did before his training and vastly superior skillset. Just think about the Cell jr. He created 7, not because he couldn't do more, but because that's all he needed, all of them roughly equal to him, considering they beat up even Trunks, Goku and Vegeta and he barely broke a sweat creating them. Universe 7 Rolling in with 10 Fighters only to immediately double their numbers, it would've been broken af.
Cell was weak. The Cell Jrs would be a non issue. He’d get solo’d by cabba.
Freezer was way weaker before he trained. Cell got freezer and colds cells, as well as the saiyans his potential is ridiculous. Throw him in the time chamber with and see what happens
Cell wouldn't have been strong enough and there wasn't enough time even with the time chamber. Cell would have been fun but in the logic of the show Frieza was the better option. I think they had less than 2 hours.
We missed another god damn android?!
Cell isn't less evil than Frizea and is an even more sour loser he would probably just blow himself up as soon as he found out he was massively weaker than the Z fighters.
Cell isn't like Goku as he doesn't seak a good fight and to improve himself as he believes he is alredy purfect he just wants to bully beings weaker than him to prove how much better he is.
Also who says 24 hours in the time chamber won't also count as 24 hours outside of it and if so then Cell just wasted his time and they dont have a stong 10th fighter
Frizea is actually smarter than Cell and can be reasonable, as seen by the fact he led an empire for years that, combined with his fear of Beerus, means he can be controlled better than
You sound like you want them to be the Pride Troopers. Z fighters dont care because they like the challenge. Maybe Gohan could care since he's the closest thing they got.
The cast as a whole is sometimes called "Dragon Team"
Not their monkey not their zoo.
As long as Freeza doesn’t mess with Earth (and probably New Namek) they don’t care. They enjoy punching things. Saving the universe is just an extra perk.
When was it ever shown they were altruistic good guys?
Goku isn't a hero and vegeta will only help if it interests him and he is open to be evil too if needed.
z warriors is a dumb name i propose the dragon brawlers
That’s because “Z Warrior” was only used once in the anime, and even then, it was to refer solely to Son Gokū as Bardock was labeled as “The Father of Z Warrior Son Gokū”.
Canonically, they’re referred to collectively as “The Dragon Team”.
Thats a nice name :)
Because they only care about Earth and New Namek
Even if they wanted to do that it seems like it would be a difficult task just locating everyone in his empire.
Vegeta actually wiped out a good chunk of Frieza’s empire in z while looking for Goku in dbz post Namek, but as another commenter said, the z fighters only really care about people they know.
Toriyama forgot that both Goku and Vegeta were ok with killing Frieza, so Gogeta let him go.
could also be argued that gogeta is his own sentient being after combing both of them
Let’s not bring up the concept please. I already had a migraine trying to wrap my head around the concept when Steven Universe did it…
When did they mention Vegeta going and wiping out a chunk of friezas empire? Thats awesome
Vegeta is shown trying to get a Frieza soldier to tell him where Goku is, who of course has no idea, and the surrounding area is destroyed.
And the destruction is heavily implied to be Vegeta’s doing.
Was this a panel in the manga? Or a scene from the anime? Or both? I’d like to find it if I can
I remember it as a scene in the anime.
I didn’t read the manga, so I don’t know if it’s there.
Also Vegeta gave the last guy many warnings but he fucked up with "Frieza killed by a monkey? No way" or something like that. Zero survival instincts.
Actually just found it a moment ago! I don’t think it is part of the manga but it is a super dope scene
Its also one of the only times Vegeta says Goku and it's not an error.