facepalm
The Decades old question!
Discussion
And why are they always arrested at work when "they are all lazy and want free benefits"
This! Youâd think couches in front of the TV is where all the raids would be happening. Scooping up all those lazy grifters getting fat and healthy on their free healthcare and free food. But no. Itâs always out at places where people are trying to work and earn a paycheck. Itâs almost like theyâre lying about the nature of these people. Weird, huh?
 couches in front of the TV is where all the raids would be happening.
And where our Vice President spending⌠with his penis inserted
What is this "free healthcare" you talk about? I've heard many a tale about such things elsewhere in the world. It sounds quite nice.
Schrodinger's Immigrants.
Stealing your job whilst being too lazy to work.
Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
One of the hallmarks of fascim according to Umberto Eco (https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism)
That is at the core of 1984 as well: "We have always been at war with Oceania". "Oceania has always been our friend." And in 1984 they have 99% control over communication/language. To control it is the closest we have to mind control. That's the whole thing with: "The pen is mightier than the sword" etc.
They often pay into social security even though they are not going to benefit from it:
It is important to note that immigrants without a documented immigration status still pay payroll and income taxes, even though they rarely become eligible for Social Security benefits. In 2022, people without a documented status paid an estimated $25.7 billion in Social Security taxes
https://www.cbpp.org/blog/immigrants-contribute-greatly-to-the-social-security-trust-funds-solvency
Ah, now it makes sense.
They're just getting rid of immigrants in order to speed-run social security insolvency. They love their "fuck you got mine"
Which is ironic since they pay taxes and get no benefits
This is completely true. They are paying into federal income taxes and social security under a false but valid number. They'll never see a cent of the ss.
They can also pay taxes under a ITIN. No need to "steal" someone's SS number.
Arrested at the jobs they stole from American citizens who would rather collect welfare than do those jobs
this is the first thing I thought of when I saw the post
Fascism talking points: the enemy is both weak and strong at the same time
Translation: These ILLEGALS are both lazy bums and stealing your job at the same time.
And they sneak over here with no intention of ever becoming citizens! They just want to freeload! That's why they are being arrested at their immigration/citizenship hearings! Makes no sense.
Arrested at work, which ironically puts them out of work and being housed/fed on the taxpayer's dime.
I overheard someone talking about how good illegals have it, free food, housing, and healthcare. And I had to resist asking him where he heard that bullshit? He said something along the lines of "I'm gonna move to Mexico and come back illegally" or something.
My non-American co-workers, some of them probably undocumented, run circles around me at work. They are some of the least lazy people I've ever seen.
And why has the "just follow the process" crowd choked off legal immigration to the point where there's this much demand for undocumented workers
So they can have an easily exploitable work force they can underpay and have control over.
And then use them as scapegoats. Itâs a win-win!
And if you point it out they say âSo youâre ok with slavery? Iâm not!â
"Oh so you think the people who do work in this country should be paid fairly? I agree! Let's shift topic from immigration to the minimum wage."
We know they'll suddenly be cool with workers being paid less than enough to live and not care about the wage disparity, but it's always good to force them to say contradictory things in different discussions, especially in written format like a Reddit or Facebook argument, because it forces them to change their position mid-conversation depending on the context, which can be used to demonstrate they don't actually even have static beliefs at all, just talking points, and things like "reality" and "facts" do not affect the talking points.
Another favorite use of this tactic is when they're talking about foreign aid and declare "we have sick starving homeless people in America, we need to take care of our own people first" to which I always shift to "then let's take care of our own people - healthcare, food, and shelter."
They never actually become self-aware because conservatives are flesh-bots not people and aren't capable of self-awareness, but it's always amusing for the audience and shows them for the fools they are.
Well ain't that a conundrum.
Well, in normal countries, the one in real trouble is the business owner⌠Thatâs how should be in any normal countryâŚ
To me this is one of the main solutions to illegal immigration. Punish the companies enough, they'll stop offering jobs to only eligible workers.... Oh wait then they'd have to pay them minimum wage and profits go down... Never mind.
In Italy it works like that, hire someone without the proper documents? Jail. I don't get why it is not like this in America.
Being serious, I agree! It would stop most of this nonsense.
Stop killing Muslims in northern Myanmar!
(A joke about your username.)
Cause the point is racism, not enforcing the law.
Because in America corporations are people and citizens aren't
A better solution is to put illegal immigrants under the exact same employment protections as people with the right to work.
It protects illegal workers from exploitation, provides a clear avenue to prosecute employers who break the rules, and eliminates the biggest incentive to hire illegal workers over legal workers.
As Americans, we hate illegal immigrants and should force them into the fiery pits of Mordor. But corrupt business owners are fine because Corruption and I are chill like that.
That's because business owners sit at the table with Sauron!
This is what we do in all other countries.
But we have mandatory IDs. I don't know how the employer can check your citizenship without IDs
Yeah man, think of the rich, they also need to be able to afford groceries, the choice of which expensive car to drive and an assistant to do the groceries.
Yeah man, think of the rich, they also need to be able to afford grocery stores, the choice of which car to collect, and an assistant to
poisontaste test the groceries
Gotta throw a little late-Roman empire parallel in there to really drive it home
They'd have to pay them above minimum wage.
Most states have made it illegal to ask a workerâs immigration status.Â
Because this was never about the immigrants. It's about demonization and division. The ruling class has always worked to convince people that the source of their problems is always the least fortunate rather than the ruling class who are robbing them blind. It's about fascism and classism.
This is the most rational explanation. đ
Correct.
Current immigration policy/enforcement is all about terrorizing a group of people to keep them scared, docile, and âin their placeâ. That place, of course, is the role of easily exploitable cheap labor.
ICE exists to terrorize migrants/immigrants so the business owners can exploit the rest. Itâs that simple.
- Its illegal to hire illegal workers
- Its illegal to pay workers under the table
- its illegal to pay less than minimum wage
- These workplaces most likely dont have OSHA compliance which is illegal
There are multiple crimes here, but who am I to say
I have been told, quite confidently, that it's literally impossible to not higher illegals. There is literally no way to know they are illegal.
When asked how ICE knew they were illegal I'm told "They know, don't you worry, they know."
So, see? It's fine.
Most states have made it illegal to ask a workerâs immigration status.Â
Do they not have form i-9?
Generally illegal immigrants are using someone elseâs SSN. But an employer has no way to legally determine if that SSN belongs to that person or not. That is private information.
In short, because enough people with enough wealth want an easily exploitable workforce they can underpay and have complete control over. One of the most effective ways to cut down on this kind of labor is to go after the businesses that hire them...but it's never been done in recent times.
In short, because enough people with enough wealth want an easily exploitable workforce they can underpay and have complete control avec.
Awefully close to something that's supposed to be abolished...
Constitutionally-approved free prison labor isn't too far off, either
Because they have money, and money walks.
Because rules for thee and not for me are the MAGanutz wet dream.
How do you put gifs in as posts?? Also she pretty
I think that's Taylor Swift.
Really? Not hugely familiar with her but did not recognise her.
When you tap on the post line there should be a GIF option near the top of the keyboard. Not all place allow gifs or pics so itâs hit or miss. I love adding them when I can for the added effect. đ
Your welcome đ¤Ş
Ah I see, I still use old reddit so none of the options there, But Thanks
Because there not brown
Where?
âWheyâreâ ???
Over their dummy
Over hear?
I sea it as well.
Know, knot that weigh.
Exploitation is only for poor. How dare we address the root of the problem
There's a layer of deniability involved too. For example, Hyundai here in Montgomery, Alabama was caught hiring undocumented children for work in manufacturing plants. Those children were placed through third party staffing agencies that were supposed to ensure that the workers were legal.
Technically, Hyundai didn't do anything wrong because they were going off of the attestations of the staffing agency.
The same goes for farms, restaurants, construction companies, etc.
They just use staffing agencies to place temp workers. The companies don't get in trouble because they have an insulating layer of deniability.
And the staffing agencies?
LLCs are cheap to establish and even cheaper to dismantle.
There are no existing legislative statutes that address this AFAIK.
Then maybe thatâs where we should start? Â Iâm guessing it would cost a hell of a lot less than $45bn.Â
Not just, not arrested, but apologized to, and promised exceptions will be made.
Plausible deniability
If a worker shows up with a SSN that they claim is theirs, do you deny them a job because you're suspicious that they might be illegal using a stolen identity? That doesn't look good for anybody
Or, more likely:
They hire a staffing company that claims to vet their workers. Turns out they're illegal, and the staffing company doesn't exist anymore. Who could have known??
They don't bother with either of those things.
White collar crime pays. Blue collar crime does time.
After further investigation, there are no business owners. The workers hired themselves.
Because its the employers who simultaneously want harsher immigration and to hire illegal immigrants. the point has always been cheap replaceable labor. If someone lives under fear of prosecution theyre more likely to be willing to work in worse conditions under the table to remain hidden, theyre afraid to defend themselves or ask for better conditions because they can be reported.
Surprise! the point has always been exploitation.
Because police and ICE serve capital, not people.
This is the correct answer.
Short answer: Racist Government.
Why are none of Trumps golf courses getting raided by ICE? He never hires Americans.
I can't 'qwhite' put my finger on it.
When we want to target drug use, do we just arrest users, or do we also go after dealers?
Only makes sense if you want to discourage illegals from getting jobs in the US, you would discourage people from hiring them in the first place.
But we are just arresting the "users", so this doesn't make sense.
Ohh oohhh I know this... plausible deniability.
As long as the owners separate themselves from the hiring process, and don't know they're "illegal", they legally can't be held responsible. Which is funny, because "I didn't know" isn't a valid defense for most crimes... and yet, it's specifically stated for this one.
Most states have made it illegal to ask a workerâs immigration status.Â
âI didnât knowâ is a actually a valid defense for a very large amount of crimes, you might want to look up what criminal intent is.
You also have people handing over false information. When I worked at a race track, it was not uncommon for the same work ID card number to be presented to multiple trainers, from different people. But the individuals trainers didn't know, because they didn't check each others lists.
Easy one: the working place would be lost...
oh, wait... nevermind...
like prostitutes and johns⌠the johns make the rules. u know. i wouldnt be surprised uf keeping them illegal is what keeps the wages low⌠if it were less risky. there would be more competition for workers and then the wages would have to go up.
Because the business owners aren't brown. And they will act like they had no idea how an illegal immigrant got hired.
Even though they have been on the payroll for months or even years. Because you know, cheap labor.
Also the bar for "legality" in immigration is way too high.
You'd think a country that creates so many refugees with its bombings, sanctions, and Monroe Doctrine would be a little more understanding as to why people come to the US. The imperial core is one of the few places that the empire allows people to feel slightly safer. But now the empire wants to make the core as shitty as it has made the rest of the empire.
I doubt they get paid by check. Setting up a sting where they see the cash change hands would likely be the best way to achieve this
They sure as hell aren't going to punish the donor class Americans, you crazy?!
Because that would solve the problem. If no one would hire them they wouldnât come here. Republicans donât want the problem solved, they want to keep using their anti immigrant scare tactics to dupe their voters into continuing support of their nonsense.
Yep. Like I said above, it's all about power, control, and screwing those who actually give a fuck about things other than money.
Yep. Still never heard an actual answer to this.
This has been my complaint for decades. If the business owners didn't hire them, they wouldn't even come around. This is 100% shifting blame from tax-dodging hypocrites to the desperate workers with no other options.
Because..... money.
Decades? Try centuries. Chinese and Irish immigrants built the railroads and this exact same thing happened. Immigrants were willing to take the hard low paying work and everyone blamed them for "took er jerbs" instead of blaming the robber barons for wage suppression
Because white and god đľâđŤ
Because they have money and politicians bend over backwards for people who have money.
I've been saying this since the 90's. The meatpacking companies have literally engaged in human trafficking, and using undocumented labor as the foundation of their business model for decades, but only got a slap on the wrist when caught.
The right answer is: So rich people can get richer by enslaving even poorer people to work off of the books
been saying this forever.
it's racism.
If you make it illegal you'll just have additional middleman acting as legal entities show up.
Not saying its good or right, just that its not a simple solution.
White. The answer is white.
This is the fastest way to eliminate an illegal immigration problem.
A brilliant question.
Because this way the government rounds them up as "criminals" and sells their slave labour to their former employers taking all the profit.
Because undocumented workers donât make political donations or have powerful connections.
Because the workers are as easy to persecute as they are to exploit
They should treat the hiring managers the way they treat drug dealers. One illegal? Thatâs like personal use. But two or more, oh boy, thatâs akin to you intending to distribute and thatâs enough to send your c-suite and board of directors away for a very long time. Since companies are people now, we should prosecute them like people.
Absolutely arrest and charge employers. I support this 100%
Pssshhh, you canât arrest a sitting president.
Same reason the hookers go to jail but the johns go free.
Money.
Racism.
Crickets cricketsâŚ.,
Monkey
Fucking thank you! Obviously we know why, but I'd love to hear their answer/b.s. excuse.Â
Chicken or the egg older than time
Follow the same process as my ancestors did 100 years ago. Print 40 pages, fill them out. Scan them for your lawyer to validate. Esign their amendments and submit. Get a retina scan, have $20K in savings...its super easy.
M'erica has always addressed the symptoms, never the cause. There's more money in that approach.
Because it has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with racism. The "owners" tend to be white men, the works do not.
gee... i wonder why...
For the same reason, Banks can steal money from customers, and no one goes to jail.
If they put every business owner/CEO in jail for hiring an illegal? There wouldn't be an illegal immigration problem.
Good question, but I would bet ZERO of you are interested in picking and processing your own fruits and vegetables EVER. Be prepared for all produce prices to shoot through the roof and never return to a normal price.
A legit question you could ask every President and Congressman for the last 40 years.
It's always been like that in American history.
Southerners hated the African slaves for making the country "more dangerous" but not the slave owners for importing them.
The American Society will never blame the wealthy and nowadays, it's "illegals" instead of slaves with the same arguments.
They get fined an amount of money that makes it still worth the risk.
Well, their skin absorbs and reflects light differently.
These people literally went to China to import workers after slavery ended. No one gave a shit back then.
Itâs because the business owners vote for and donate to Republicans. Theyâre Republicans.
Power and control. Those on top top would rather screw over the lower-class and people who they don't want in "their country" than admit they're the problem.
They have to collect ssn numbers as part of the hiring process, so they know damn well they're breaking the law
First things first... I guess
Because this is really about racists and those people are mostly white
And the ones doing the hiring are exploiting the desperate people looking for jobs as undocumented workers. How is what theyâre doing not considered worse??? They probably donât even pay them minimum wage and they are protected under FLSA. We should be arresting those criminals if itâs that seriousâŚ
Because the real reason rhymes with Rayshism
In the UK it can be quite a hefty fine and often enforced. Think up to ÂŁ45k per individual (usually ends up around ÂŁ5-10k)
In the US you just get told off and then go find more whilst complaining about illegals
Neither side has ever wanted to solve the undocumented worker issue. It plays better for both sides as an election prop. They haven't been working for the country or their constituents. They've been working for theirselves on our dime.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Arrested? The Rich? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that only applies to the serfs. They get minimal fines, and if they feel it does cut into their pocketbook, well the serfs will just have to make less.
Another point: If they took everyone's job, then why aren't they filling up those jobs quickly with applicants?
(btw... the business owners are more than likely GOP donors...)
Most states have made it illegal to ask a workerâs immigration status, and also impossible to check a workerâs citizenship.Â
Because they aren't brown?
There it is!
Rules don't apply to corporations don't you guys know that
Pretty dumb right?
You can answer this question using the eye test.
This guy is dumber than a box of rocks...they are deported NOT arrested. And the business are fined.
Same reason we donât fire the president for doing a shit job and putting everyone at risk.
The real answer is that as long as the person has documents that can pass E-Verify, the employer hasn't committed a crime. So if an undocumented person has forged or stolen documents, it's not up to the employer to determine the authenticity of the documents. It's an incredibly stupid system, but we (as a country) don't want national ID cards or anything like that, so it's the system we have.
because it is business owners job to keep the proletariat busy and producing value for owners.
They are "Too valuable" so we get the two tiered justice system (More than two tiers if we're honest)
Because that would probably largely put an end to illegals working, and they donât actually want that because the lawmakers are some of the ones profiting.
Because he's white
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