facepalm
The Decades old question!
Discussion
And why are they always arrested at work when "they are all lazy and want free benefits"
This! You’d think couches in front of the TV is where all the raids would be happening. Scooping up all those lazy grifters getting fat and healthy on their free healthcare and free food. But no. It’s always out at places where people are trying to work and earn a paycheck. It’s almost like they’re lying about the nature of these people. Weird, huh?
What is this "free healthcare" you talk about? I've heard many a tale about such things elsewhere in the world. It sounds quite nice.
Didn't you hear? All the illegals are using up the free healthcare, that's why us citizens have to pay!
/s just in case it's not obvious 🙃
Schrödinger's Immigrant: Simultaneously too lazy to work and soaking up all of our benefits, but also stealing jobs from hard working Americans.
It's simialr to the old facist playbook. The enemy is both terrifyingly strong and laughably weak, so we can deride them for how much better we are of them, and live in fear of them somehow at the same time
It's classic doublethink: The act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct.
couches in front of the TV is where all the raids would be happening.
And where our Vice President spending his evenings… with his penis inserted
Sofa king weird.
Not only working, but usually working the HARDEST jobs.
ICE setting up at SeaWorld on the lazy river
Is that you Cartman?
Chasing them off of Florida rooftops in 110 degrees heat index days. Not a foreman or company owner in sight. Those hurricane damaged roofs aren’t going to fix themselves. Hardest workers in the country being punished.
Schrodinger's Immigrants.
Stealing your job whilst being too lazy to work.
Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
One of the hallmarks of fascim according to Umberto Eco (https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism)
That is at the core of 1984 as well: "We have always been at war with Oceania". "Oceania has always been our friend." And in 1984 they have 99% control over communication/language. To control it is the closest we have to mind control. That's the whole thing with: "The pen is mightier than the sword" etc.
They often pay into social security even though they are not going to benefit from it:
It is important to note that immigrants without a documented immigration status still pay payroll and income taxes, even though they rarely become eligible for Social Security benefits. In 2022, people without a documented status paid an estimated $25.7 billion in Social Security taxes
https://www.cbpp.org/blog/immigrants-contribute-greatly-to-the-social-security-trust-funds-solvency
Ah, now it makes sense.
They're just getting rid of immigrants in order to speed-run social security insolvency. They love their "fuck you got mine"
They often pay into social security even though they are not going to benefit from it:
This is 100% true.
I used to work for a consulting firm and the type of company they worked with hired lots of illegals (I don't want to say what the company was) and all these illegals got paid regularly and put in money to everything you and I do, however their social security nubmers were not real so they get none of those benefits back. Millions of dollars go into social security from these folks. They don't get a penny of that back ever.
Which is ironic since they pay taxes and get no benefits
This is completely true. They are paying into federal income taxes and social security under a false but valid number. They'll never see a cent of the ss.
They can also pay taxes under a ITIN. No need to "steal" someone's SS number.
There are documentation requirements for an ITIN. Also doesn't authorize working in the US as that's part of USCIS.
Fascism talking points: the enemy is both weak and strong at the same time
Translation: These ILLEGALS are both lazy bums and stealing your job at the same time.
If a lazy bum is stealing your job, then look inward. If they can take your job so easily, then you must be all kinds of incompetent.
They also talk about democrats the same way. Somehow, they are weak, so no real progress gets made, but then they somehow control the shadow government and the weather.
Arrested at the jobs they stole from American citizens who would rather collect welfare than do those jobs
this is the first thing I thought of when I saw the post
And they sneak over here with no intention of ever becoming citizens! They just want to freeload! That's why they are being arrested at their immigration/citizenship hearings! Makes no sense.
My non-American co-workers, some of them probably undocumented, run circles around me at work. They are some of the least lazy people I've ever seen.
Arrested at work, which ironically puts them out of work and being housed/fed on the taxpayer's dime.
So they can be brought to the nearest upcoming concentration camp to continue working at the same place, but through legal slavery instead.
If it’s like the cases in my hometown they have two IDs. One for work and another receiving benefits. Usually about 4-6 guys living on the same house + family if they aren’t single. The packing plant here runs e-verify like everyone else but the illegals I’ve known say it’s super easy to pass that check so they started running SS# against each others and always find a bunch that have the same number.
and how are all these crops going unpicked now that there are all these jobs available for the americans who have been wanting them for decades? Get to work boyos!
No no no, they're stealing all their jobs and they are also, at the same time, not contributing and live off of benefits from the state!
Everybody knows that!
(/s, I shouldn't have to, but we live in idiotic times).
And why has the "just follow the process" crowd choked off legal immigration to the point where there's this much demand for undocumented workers
So they can have an easily exploitable work force they can underpay and have control over.
And if you point it out they say “So you’re ok with slavery? I’m not!”
"Oh so you think the people who do work in this country should be paid fairly? I agree! Let's shift topic from immigration to the minimum wage."
We know they'll suddenly be cool with workers being paid less than enough to live and not care about the wage disparity, but it's always good to force them to say contradictory things in different discussions, especially in written format like a Reddit or Facebook argument, because it forces them to change their position mid-conversation depending on the context, which can be used to demonstrate they don't actually even have static beliefs at all, just talking points, and things like "reality" and "facts" do not affect the talking points.
Another favorite use of this tactic is when they're talking about foreign aid and declare "we have sick starving homeless people in America, we need to take care of our own people first" to which I always shift to "then let's take care of our own people - healthcare, food, and shelter."
They never actually become self-aware because conservatives are flesh-bots not people and aren't capable of self-awareness, but it's always amusing for the audience and shows them for the fools they are.
And then use them as scapegoats. It’s a win-win!
Well, in normal countries, the one in real trouble is the business owner… That’s how should be in any normal country…
Well ain't that a conundrum.
Don’t forget using that underpaid workforce as leverage to lower wages for everyone else!
And why are they getting arrested from courts where they're trying to follow the process?
And why has the "just follow the process" crowd choked off legal immigration to the point where there's this much demand for undocumented workers
They haven't.
The H-2 program exists, but it requires employers to pay fairly and provide food, transportation, and housing for workers under the program. Those who employ unlawful immigrants (who can't exactly go screaming to WHD) are exploiting those people rather than paying them fairly for their labor, which they could lawfully import.
The US also grants legal permanent resident status to roughly a million people per year. Please see https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R42866#:~:text=From%20FY2014%20to%20FY2023%2C%20the,corresponding%20and%20sometimes%20overlapping%20queue and check the slope of figure 1--mostly increasing year over year since 1950.
Because this was never about the immigrants. It's about demonization and division. The ruling class has always worked to convince people that the source of their problems is always the least fortunate rather than the ruling class who are robbing them blind. It's about fascism and classism.
This is the most rational explanation. 👏
To add to this, going after employers would likely work to some degree which is why it’s not done. The US isn’t ready to face the economic cost that would result in having to pay a reasonable wage to people who do all the work that we don’t want to do. How much would you charge per hour to pick fruit in the hot sun?
They get to make a big show of deporting people, which makes their base happy, all while avoiding the price increases that would result if they actually tackled the so called “problem”.
The truly wild thing about this to me is the massive number of people who think this is the most important issue to deal with. Millions of people who have never worked in a field or framed a house in their life genuinely consider this to be top priority. Not the increasing share of wealth going to a small group of people, not billions in dark money spent to buy elections, not access to affordable healthcare, or clean air. It really goes to show how an easy it is to convince a gullible populace that their issues are caused by people who don’t look like them.
Correct.
Current immigration policy/enforcement is all about terrorizing a group of people to keep them scared, docile, and “in their place”. That place, of course, is the role of easily exploitable cheap labor.
ICE exists to terrorize migrants/immigrants so the business owners can exploit the rest. It’s that simple.
To me this is one of the main solutions to illegal immigration. Punish the companies enough, they'll stop offering jobs to only eligible workers.... Oh wait then they'd have to pay them minimum wage and profits go down... Never mind.
In Italy it works like that, hire someone without the proper documents? Jail. I don't get why it is not like this in America.
Being serious, I agree! It would stop most of this nonsense.
Stop killing Muslims in northern Myanmar!
(A joke about your username.)
Cause the point is racism, not enforcing the law.
It is the same in the US. Most likely the documents are stolen, defeating the E-Verify system. As long as the employer checks those documents through E-Verify, they have followed the law.
What? No. It’s not just based on the e-verify system.
How do they find these illegal immigrants in these raids on workplaces if there’s no digital record of them? They’ve seemingly managed to find tons of them just fine.
Every time they do a raid and find illegal immigrants, they should follow the business records and simply arrest the owner(s), either in that moment or later. No e-verify necessary.
So if I put out an ad for a job, I hire someone for that job, I submit all of the proper documentation for that employee to the government, and it turns out they’re working illegally I should go to jail? Sounds like you just don’t want companies to hire anyone who is Hispanic or has a foreign accent.
Because in America corporations are people and citizens aren't
A better solution is to put illegal immigrants under the exact same employment protections as people with the right to work.
It protects illegal workers from exploitation, provides a clear avenue to prosecute employers who break the rules, and eliminates the biggest incentive to hire illegal workers over legal workers.
That a great idea!
Yeah man, think of the rich, they also need to be able to afford groceries, the choice of which expensive car to drive and an assistant to do the groceries.
Yeah man, think of the rich, they also need to be able to afford grocery stores, the choice of which car to collect, and an assistant to
poisontaste test the groceries
Gotta throw a little late-Roman empire parallel in there to really drive it home
Punishing the actual companies is always the main solution to most things. But noooo, it's the workers and consumers who are to blame or need to make a change.
They'd have to pay them above minimum wage.
As Americans, we hate illegal immigrants and should force them into the fiery pits of Mordor. But corrupt business owners are fine because Corruption and I are chill like that.
That's because business owners sit at the table with Sauron!
Do you really think I would be corrupt and should be sent to jail if I owned a pizza place and hired an immigrant who needs a job?
This is what we do in all other countries.
But we have mandatory IDs. I don't know how the employer can check your citizenship without IDs
- Its illegal to hire illegal workers
- Its illegal to pay workers under the table
- its illegal to pay less than minimum wage
- These workplaces most likely dont have OSHA compliance which is illegal
There are multiple crimes here, but who am I to say
In short, because enough people with enough wealth want an easily exploitable workforce they can underpay and have complete control over. One of the most effective ways to cut down on this kind of labor is to go after the businesses that hire them...but it's never been done in recent times.
In short, because enough people with enough wealth want an easily exploitable workforce they can underpay and have complete control avec.
Awefully close to something that's supposed to be abolished...
Constitutionally-approved free prison labor isn't too far off, either
Minimum wage is essentially legalized slavery.
Then some companies decided that was still too expensive...lmfao
I have been told, quite confidently, that it's literally impossible to not higher illegals. There is literally no way to know they are illegal.
When asked how ICE knew they were illegal I'm told "They know, don't you worry, they know."
So, see? It's fine.
Most states have made it illegal to ask a worker’s immigration status.
Do they not have form i-9?
Because they have money, and money walks.
Because rules for thee and not for me are the MAGanutz wet dream.
How do you put gifs in as posts?? Also she pretty
I think that's Taylor Swift.
Really? Not hugely familiar with her but did not recognise her.
There's a layer of deniability involved too. For example, Hyundai here in Montgomery, Alabama was caught hiring undocumented children for work in manufacturing plants. Those children were placed through third party staffing agencies that were supposed to ensure that the workers were legal.
Technically, Hyundai didn't do anything wrong because they were going off of the attestations of the staffing agency.
The same goes for farms, restaurants, construction companies, etc.
They just use staffing agencies to place temp workers. The companies don't get in trouble because they have an insulating layer of deniability.
And the staffing agencies?
LLCs are cheap to establish and even cheaper to dismantle.
There are no existing legislative statutes that address this AFAIK.
Then maybe that’s where we should start? I’m guessing it would cost a hell of a lot less than $45bn.
Because there not brown
Where?
‘Whey’re’ ???
Over their dummy
Over hear?
I sea it as well.
Know, knot that weigh.
Butt I thought ewe said sew?
Exploitation is only for poor. How dare we address the root of the problem
Not just, not arrested, but apologized to, and promised exceptions will be made.
Plausible deniability
If a worker shows up with a SSN that they claim is theirs, do you deny them a job because you're suspicious that they might be illegal using a stolen identity? That doesn't look good for anybody
Or, more likely:
They hire a staffing company that claims to vet their workers. Turns out they're illegal, and the staffing company doesn't exist anymore. Who could have known??
They don't bother with either of those things.
White collar crime pays. Blue collar crime does time.
Short answer: Racist Government.
weven known this since his last term, where yk the meme was hes racist, and now we see it.
After further investigation, there are no business owners. The workers hired themselves.
Also the bar for "legality" in immigration is way too high.
You'd think a country that creates so many refugees with its bombings, sanctions, and Monroe Doctrine would be a little more understanding as to why people come to the US. The imperial core is one of the few places that the empire allows people to feel slightly safer. But now the empire wants to make the core as shitty as it has made the rest of the empire.
Because its the employers who simultaneously want harsher immigration and to hire illegal immigrants. the point has always been cheap replaceable labor. If someone lives under fear of prosecution theyre more likely to be willing to work in worse conditions under the table to remain hidden, theyre afraid to defend themselves or ask for better conditions because they can be reported.
Surprise! the point has always been exploitation.
Because police and ICE serve capital, not people.
This is the correct answer.
Ohh oohhh I know this... plausible deniability.
As long as the owners separate themselves from the hiring process, and don't know they're "illegal", they legally can't be held responsible. Which is funny, because "I didn't know" isn't a valid defense for most crimes... and yet, it's specifically stated for this one.
Same reason the hookers go to jail but the johns go free.
Why are none of Trumps golf courses getting raided by ICE? He never hires Americans.
I can't 'qwhite' put my finger on it.
They sure as hell aren't going to punish the donor class Americans, you crazy?!
When we want to target drug use, do we just arrest users, or do we also go after dealers?
Only makes sense if you want to discourage illegals from getting jobs in the US, you would discourage people from hiring them in the first place.
But we are just arresting the "users", so this doesn't make sense.
Because we’re racist not socialist.
Just imagine what would happen if we startede revoking citizenship and deporting farmers who hired the illegals. Put them all on the same plane to El Salvador.
And why arrest them at a business? I thought their jobs were stealing benefits? Why not go to bars and pool halls and round them all up?
A system that benefits the people in charge while fucking over everyone else is working as designed.
Because in America, crime is only punished when you're too poor to lobby against it.
Easy one: the working place would be lost...
oh, wait... nevermind...
like prostitutes and johns… the johns make the rules. u know. i wouldnt be surprised uf keeping them illegal is what keeps the wages low… if it were less risky. there would be more competition for workers and then the wages would have to go up.
Because the business owners aren't brown. And they will act like they had no idea how an illegal immigrant got hired.
Even though they have been on the payroll for months or even years. Because you know, cheap labor.
I doubt they get paid by check. Setting up a sting where they see the cash change hands would likely be the best way to achieve this
Fucking thank you! Obviously we know why, but I'd love to hear their answer/b.s. excuse.
Follow the same process as my ancestors did 100 years ago. Print 40 pages, fill them out. Scan them for your lawyer to validate. Esign their amendments and submit. Get a retina scan, have $20K in savings...its super easy.
M'erica has always addressed the symptoms, never the cause. There's more money in that approach.
Because that would solve the problem. If no one would hire them they wouldn’t come here. Republicans don’t want the problem solved, they want to keep using their anti immigrant scare tactics to dupe their voters into continuing support of their nonsense.
Yep. Like I said above, it's all about power, control, and screwing those who actually give a fuck about things other than money.
Yep. Still never heard an actual answer to this.
Well, their skin absorbs and reflects light differently.
It’s because the business owners vote for and donate to Republicans. They’re Republicans.
Because this is really about racists and those people are mostly white
In the UK it can be quite a hefty fine and often enforced. Think up to £45k per individual (usually ends up around £5-10k)
In the US you just get told off and then go find more whilst complaining about illegals
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
This has been my complaint for decades. If the business owners didn't hire them, they wouldn't even come around. This is 100% shifting blame from tax-dodging hypocrites to the desperate workers with no other options.
Because..... money.
Decades? Try centuries. Chinese and Irish immigrants built the railroads and this exact same thing happened. Immigrants were willing to take the hard low paying work and everyone blamed them for "took er jerbs" instead of blaming the robber barons for wage suppression
Because white and god 😵💫
Because they have money and politicians bend over backwards for people who have money.
I've been saying this since the 90's. The meatpacking companies have literally engaged in human trafficking, and using undocumented labor as the foundation of their business model for decades, but only got a slap on the wrist when caught.
The right answer is: So rich people can get richer by enslaving even poorer people to work off of the books
been saying this forever.
it's racism.
If you make it illegal you'll just have additional middleman acting as legal entities show up.
Not saying its good or right, just that its not a simple solution.
White. The answer is white.
This is the fastest way to eliminate an illegal immigration problem.
A brilliant question.
The real answer is that as long as the person has documents that can pass E-Verify, the employer hasn't committed a crime. So if an undocumented person has forged or stolen documents, it's not up to the employer to determine the authenticity of the documents. It's an incredibly stupid system, but we (as a country) don't want national ID cards or anything like that, so it's the system we have.
Because this way the government rounds them up as "criminals" and sells their slave labour to their former employers taking all the profit.
Because undocumented workers don’t make political donations or have powerful connections.
Because the workers are as easy to persecute as they are to exploit
They should treat the hiring managers the way they treat drug dealers. One illegal? That’s like personal use. But two or more, oh boy, that’s akin to you intending to distribute and that’s enough to send your c-suite and board of directors away for a very long time. Since companies are people now, we should prosecute them like people.
Absolutely arrest and charge employers. I support this 100%
Pssshhh, you can’t arrest a sitting president.
Because, silly, it's so much easier to arrest 10 million itinerant poor brown people than a handful of rich white guys with fixed known addresses!
Do it.
Literally this.
Laws for thee and not for The Rich.
Well "he said" they were going after all the rapists, drug dealers, etc that were being sent here from Mexico, yet he is only going after the easy pickings, the low hanging fruit. People in church, working in the fields, cooks and hotel employees - Just to get his numbers up
Because the owners are white rebublicans
Because most of the business owners are probably old white guys. You can't go around arresting old white guys! Don't you know how much we're persecuted every day just because were old white guys??
"OLD WHITE GUYS LIVES MATTER"
Its a $50 fine and you gotta watch a video
The answer is classism. It's always classism.
Brown people with money are never a problem to racists.
None of them are against Danny Trejo or Salma Hayek.
Because those business owners have lawyers, so it runs afoul of the American tradition of picking on the defenseless.
Because the right doesn't actually care about it. That's why they also carved out an exception for farm workers. It plays to their racist base and they need something to fall back on after the constant Ls they've been stacking up lately.
I e been asking the same question
It’s like ignoring the drug dealers and only busting the attics. This actually confirms my theory that the intention was never to solve the problem, but to ensure that it always returns so they can always continue justifying massive government spending on the prison industrial complex.
Because campaign contributions. Large corporations aren't gonna let laws get in the way of their profits.
And if the ICE raid just happens to be the day before pay day, you don’t even have to pay them /s
I lived in Korea when they banned indoor smoking. Technically it was already banned but only the smoker would get in trouble if they decided to enforce it which was rare if never. Bars had ash trays on the table and counters. Later they amended the law so the owner would get in legal trouble if they allowed smoking in their bar and suddenly it stopped.
I imagine something similar would happen in the OPs scenario.
Until a CEO does prison time, I call bullshit on giving one fuck about law and order when it comes to immigration.
Because it’s hard to prove in court that you knowingly hired an illegal, but it’s easy to prove in court that someone is illegal
There has been some business that hire a bunch of undocumented workers. Work them hard. Fuck around with their pay. When they complain enough or organize, call in ICE to clear them out. Then guess what? Replace them with new undocumented workers
Why would rich white guys get arrested? lol
I would love to see California and New York pass laws that say no illegal immigrant can be arrested unless their employer is charged.
Better yet, no illegal can be deported without their employer right along with them. But I'd take the former law if that's all I could get.
Please remember to follow all of our rules. Use the report function to report any rule-breaking comments.
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail here or Reddit site admins here. All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.