facepalm
Used to like Jordan Peterson years ago until I heard him talk a few times. Something misfires in his arguments.
Discussion
He’s got all the intellectual depth of a philosophy department student at the end of freshman year who ultimately will not finish his degree.
I would add “after 10 beers” to that description and it becomes almost perfect. I don’t think any sober freshman, no matter how insufferable, would be trying to redefine words and refusing to understand basic terminology to ultimately make NO COHERENT POINT quite like JBP.
JBP is the Michael Jordan Peterson of saying nothing but net zero in 3,000 words or more. He’s the Gordon Ramsay of slinging word salads. He’s the Usain Bolt at running away from taking a real position. He’s the Jordan B. Peterson of philosophy, because ain’t nobody done it quite like him.
I was on a team that was run by someone who reminds me of him to an eerie degree. He came from a prestigious background so his word was god to the higher-ups, but it was all performance.
He acted like he believed he was the smartest person in the room and condescended to everyone. Everything you said was wrong for some reason because he was smarter, you see. He would talk in circles and attack your framework of reality and the definitions of your words and speak in paragraphs just to say nothing. He expected us to find the magic thing that he wanted without telling us what that was. He halted the project completely and created a “war room” where only select people were allowed in and they’d argue about things like “what is entertainment?” and “what is fun?” as if that would get us any closer to a shipped product. The rest of us twiddled our thumbs while being forced to watch war movies and shows, or run through strange exercises to simulate war that made me wonder if we were being filmed and studied. What came out of it? Almost nothing useful.
One time my friend on the team expressed some common concerns in an all hands, and instead of addressing the issues the boss told him he shouldn’t be on the project if he felt that way in front of everyone- just to humiliate him. People would leave his office in tears.
Eventually he ran the team into the ground because it turns out when nothing ever satisfies the boss you just spin your wheels in place. When you can’t agree on the basic definition of words, you can’t get anywhere. I don’t know how many times I wanted to stand up during his half hour speeches and scream that he wasn’t SAYING ANYTHING.
Every time I hear JBP vomit his word salad, I think of that boss and shudder. He would be a nightmare in a corporate setting. An absolute nightmare.
My experience is there are alot of people like that in corporate settings, just not to such an extreme degree. Tons of people doing/saying nothing to make the people a above them think they're smart and capable while making the lives of their subordinates harder. They add no value to the organization, they just collect an outsize salary.
More like after a night fueled by adderall
I don’t think someone on stimulants would have half the patience required to slow a conversation down as much as Peterson does. Haha I think someone on coke or adderall would be banging their head against the wall if they had to try to ask the definition of each word and have a discussion about it before answering a yes or no question. Peterson used benzos like PEDs to be able to slow down his intellectual dishonesty games to a snails pace, where it’s actually too slow for the average person to logically follow the points he is trying not to make.
He seems completely agitated all the time, while yes he used benzos, and did derail debates with inane questions, his manner was always very twitchy
As a philosophy degreed person on benzos, I remain very impressed with his ability to follow what happened up to 30 seconds prior. He’s not great at more than that.
He's the Helen Keller of having sex....oh wait...
I guess Ben Shapiro gets that title hahaha
Ben Shapiro: it’s supposed to… get wet? Yuck
Lol, I was just making a reference to Jon Lajoe, he had some funny songs twenty years ago.
But yes, if anyone is actually the Helen Keller of having sex, it's him.
Oh damn haha I forgot about Jon Lajoie, going to have to go back and watch some of his stuff. I remember it being good back when he was putting it out!
And he sounds like Kermit the Frog
If Kermit cried all the time for no specific reason
It's called a "gish gallop," and JBP has mastered it
He's not even on that level. He's the guy that left after 1 semester and kept reading philosophy to impress chicks. Most guys after 2 semesters know not to do "what do you mean by that" bs quasi aeguments.
“You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.”
lol… funny you should say that…
My kid goes to his old university (where he taught)
All the professors, his old colleagues, fucking hate the guy… they rarely mention him, but when they do, it’s with a LOT of contempt lol…
A pity his teachers didn't act accordingly
“Define fries”
“No, do you want them or not. You’re holding up the line”
Ma'am, this is a Wendy's.
Sir, this is the Philosophy Dept.
Literally his first question, "How would you know what I like?"
"I don't, sir, that's why I asked."
Jordan Peterson is what stupid people think a smart person sounds like
Charlie kirk fits this as well.
Easy to argue with college kids. How about actual scientists and experts in the fields they claim to be such buffs in?
If he did that, he’d just Gish Gallop, run back to his podcast and claim he won the debate.
Did you see me destroy that 2nd year Poly Sci major? Epic
That doesn't really work. Just like the college kids, the actual experts and scientists aren't debate-lords, they are not practiced in countering bad faith tactics on the fly. People like Kirk use your intellectual honesty against you as they mix and match language, twist words, and spit misinformation at rapid fire. They are practiced in confusing people, muddying the waters, then claiming intellectual victory the moment you stumble from the bullshit.
came to say this lol.
Anytime anyone drops his name, I say pretty much the same… Peterson is a stupid person's idea of a smart person. It usually ends the conversation.
I call him the idiot's thinking man, and Joe Rogan the thinking man's idiot
I was never that into him by any means, but I swear he has gotten more convoluted and abstract with his arguments. When he was still doing lectures at U of T it seemed like he could put together a very logical, relatively digestible argument. Maybe it was just because the courses are a lot more structured.
Either way, he has definitely lost a lot of what I found interesting.
You’re giving him way too much credit
He’s never been anything more than a pseudo-intellectual grifter
Somebody said it better but ill paraphrase:
Jordan Peterson has not gotten worse. You've just matured to a point that you realize that he is awful. He always has been.
I’m not sure that is true. I didn’t watch a lot of his stuff, but from what I can remember of his U of T lectures, it seemed like pretty standard psych/sociology stuff. Even when he got into the gendered debates (not necessarily the trans issues, but stuff like the gender pay gap) I think most of what he said was logical and well-spoken even if I didn’t agree with all of it even at the time. He has definitely had a qualitative change in how he speaks and delivers his message on his various platforms.
He was definitely more coherent when he first came to prominence, the fame and drugs and induced coma to a huge toll.
You might be right, I don't know the man and can't say for sure. However, anytime I someone going off the deep end (losing their marbles, however you want to phrase it) at the same rate their income & net worth increases exponentially, I have to wonder how much they are really losing their marbles. Without even looking, not being able to name one other tenured professor in U of T history, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he's probably the wealthiest in it's history. At the very least, he his personal worth has increased the most and it's not even close.
I was introduced to him through those lectures.
Even at his height he'd get to a "correct" answer and then completely disregard any other answer that was also just as correct
Exactly. His fans just like the way he speaks, without realizing its utter nonsense.
Wait… I thought that was the description we were giving to Joe Rogan?
Just watch the Matt Dillahunty/Jordan Peterson 'discussion'. Matt completely exposed JP for the fraud he is. He's just a Christian pseudo-intellectual gas bag, but dumb incels like him a lot, and that makes him popular these days. He's an insignificant mind.
His debate with Slavoj Zizek is worth a look.
Right at the start of his presentation on "Post-modern Neo-marxism", he admitted he'd never read any marxist works, so the previous night had read The Communist Manifesto as debate prep. He actually believed it was a work of theory.
Zizek asked him to name any of the "Woke intellectuals" he spoke against. Peterson couldn't name even one.
This was one of the single biggest moments in time for me to cement that I cannot stand Jordan, he's a pseudo-intellectual with a massive ego and Matt is the perfect person for him to discuss anything with because Matt takes 0 shit and is very experienced at dealing with bullshit. I have a lot of respect for Matt, I've watched hundreds of hours of TAE.
I saw parts of his "Jordan Peterson vs 20 atheists" performance a few days ago. Why anyone thinks that imbecile is clever is beyond me.
I don’t know, am I Jordan Peterson? I never said that I was Jordan Peterson. First we have to define what a name is.
If you can't dazzle them with knowledge, baffle them with bullshit.
Guy talks about dragons and masturbation in the same sentence.
That happens all the time... When the dragons are bad.
I saw that. I think you mean “Christian vs 20 Atheists”. Though it was a weird debate, it wasn’t really about god, it was more about what words mean. Just going around in circles about the definition of various words for 90mins.
Nah. Peterson got them to change that, because he can't say that he's a Christian.
Are you Warmbo?
Aren’t we all?
It requires some context, he basically did the same thing L Ron Hubbard did by packaging some basic self help stuff as revolutionary before starting the grift in earnest that way nothing he says or does can discredit him entirely to his fans.
"I didn't say I actually wanted fries I'm just saying that anyone who orders a Big Mac would want fries."
"So...you want fries with that?"
"NO I am not making that claim. I'm just ordering a Big Mac and saying that fries would obviously by wanted by anyone who orders one but I'm not saying I personally would want fries."
".......K......"
This is perfect.
He talks like he thinks they're writing books about him like other famous philosophers. Like he thinks everything he say will be some grand quote.
Dudes unaware it makes him sound like a socially dysfunctional asshole.
Don't forget pretentious!
When the argument becomes the argument rather than the actual topic of the argument.
I watched some of his Jubilee debate. JP is not a smart man....
So, as I've heard that Jordan Peterson is what an unintelligent person thinks is an intelligent person.
Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson are faux intellectuals. Anytime they actually have to debate someone with half a brain, they look like idiots.
It’s so easy to argue things when you don’t have an opponent to point out your argument is nonsense
Shapiro, in particular, employs a rhetorical technique known as a "Gish gallop".
"...technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by presenting an excessive number of arguments, without regard for their accuracy or strength, with a rapidity that makes it impossible for the opponent to address them in the time available. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality."
He’s an obtuse, intellectual dwarf who knows a few long words.
You liked him until you heard him talk?
So...you just thought he was hot?
Define liking?
Define heard
He was mostly known for writing two inoffensive books before he became a right-wing nut job. Maps of Meaning was a harmless bit of pop psych/philosophy, and 12 Rules was a pretty basic self-help book targeted at young men. I can see the appeal before actually hearing the man speak.
Don't forget that sufficient cut clips can make any insufferable person sound either reasonable or fairly intelligent. Before watching some of his actual conversations, the clips I had heard seem to paint him in a good light. Then I actually sat down and attempted to watch a more than a YouTube short video of him speaking. I find that there are many people that can be made to look and sound wonderful via clips. PR is a real thing for a reason.
I read Maps of Meaning when it came out. He asks a lot of phenomenological and existential questions... and talks around them without giving any answers.
12 Rules is similar, but worse. It's a game of word association, flitting between random topics because they have a word in common... and coming to no conclusions.
I don't think he started out as a fraud - just an incompetent.
Yeah that doesn’t make any sense lol.
when andre3000 said “yall don’t wanna hear me, you just wanna dance” he was talking about music but the same logic can be applied here
they don’t care that he is saying nothing, they care how he is saying nothing. He has a way of sounding smart while saying incredibly stupid or basic things.
I’ve been laughing at this guy for as long as I can remember
He’s a half-wit
Jaden Smith must be his biggest fan.
This guy is just a modern day snake oil salesman.
I feel like he had all but disappeared from the "Intellectual Cool Kids Club" before the Jubilee video. Being whooped by a bunch of youngin's may have been the nail in the coffin.
Brainworms. Benzo fed brainworms.
No offense but this sounds too smart for him
But what IS French fries?! Surely they are not FRENCH POTATOES!
This type of stripping down of definitions is the first thing you learn in philosophy 101. It’s so embarrassing.
Mental health needs counselling not a social media platform to misinform
You mean the psychologist that said he didn’t know benzodiazepines were addictive and that’s why he almost died?
Yeah….
4am after a kegger philosopher.
Jordan Peterson:
"How would you know what I like? Liking isn't the same as wanting, or dare I say, needing!"
Jordan Peterson starts crying and sobbing uncontrollably
Jordan Peterson:
indecipherable
Cashier:
"..."
Cashier can no longer reason with Jordan Peterson, who is now in full mental breakdown
fin
(FTFY)
If you use enough big words and ask enough vague questions, then make confusing assertions, you too can confuse dumb people into thinking you’re a prophet.
Intellectual powerhouse….lol….more like a contrarian with a better than average vocabulary. I would love to debate him if only to do exactly the same non-sequitur strawman make it up as i go along scenario bullshit that he does ALL THE TIME
He has made a career on false equivalents and bullshnit
I think he’s just another smart man that ventured outside his expertise field with the same confidence he rightfully had in his own.
You’ll notice this mostly with billionaires who are suddenly experts in everything because they were successful in one narrow field that made them money.
Overwhelming people with the stupidity and volume of your questions makes you sound like a genius
smart video
This is his game! Well done!
"How would you know what I want?"
"I fucking asked"
JP is what stupid people think smart people sound like.
That's how they all "debate"
Before he gained any notoriety, his YouTube lectures were actually enjoyable. It was basically a slow walk through Joseph Campbell's monomyth. I have no idea what he's rambling on aboot these days, and I'm not sure he does either.
I trad "vodka" in his voice like "vawdka"
I stopped listening when everything he said started coming back to "god"
He just looks so damn sweaty and grungy in every photo
You forgot the word “Particularly” that he uses every 6 words or so.
I detest the entire ecosystem around him, and how he is trotted around as a wise man by right wing actors with very unhealthy views.
That being said, he has an entire thing about self-care that actually looks pretty wholesome and is rooted in responsibility and self improvement. Urging people to take personal responsibility, seek meaning over happiness, and improve their lives step-by-step is a very timely point of view.
He is shallow and intellectually poor because he ignores systemic inequalities, the lived experiences of the marginalized groups he talks over and underemphasizes empathy. But he offers a counterpoint to the more extreme views that addresses the same issues.
I don’t understand the hate though? Maybe it’s because I don’t watch his YouTube’s, but can’t two things be true at the same time? That he is good in his specialty field psychology and perhaps should shut his damn mouth on social issues?
I am not being obtuse, I genuinely don’t get why we are so upset with this guy when the far right has so many worse actors? Please help me be more informed?
Thanks for your observations there, mate. I suspect to many he was a breath of fresh air when the Me Too movement popped up and the "woke" movement got media traction. Forgetting that half of the younger male society was feeling a bit demonized, he came in at the right time to tap into a marketable grievance many of them had. He's now somehow one of their defenders and spokespeople. He's become a cleaned up Alex Jones for a different demographic. Maybe JP is experiencing some Messianic Complex because he speaks as if he's a little unaware of how he's coming off. I don't think he sees himself removed from criticism from within so he just rambles on. The meme here is just some comical reflection of how others may see him. I think there's some truth in the dialogue within the meme. He's a bloviator for sure.
Yep...dude is intelligent...but he got into the marketing part of the game and realized that he doesnt have to make sense...just being verbally combative is enough for the social media crowd
This is so accurate! To anyone who has ever listened to him
"What do you mean? Do you mean to wish me a good morning, or do you mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not? Or perhaps you mean to say that you feel good on this particular morning?"
Liking him years ago made a lot more sense when he was actually relying on his research and expertise and focusing his efforts on self-improvement and actualization (although he would never call it that). Then he saw he was getting popular with some very unsavory dudes and jumped headfirst into the right wing grifting pipeline, coddling them and abandoning any pretense of insight and thoughtfulness.
Could not agree more, turned in to a pompous ass
Pedantic semantics
I've seen him put in his place on YT lately. He's a jerk.
This is someone who argues the sky is not blue just to argue and feel superior, and when someone does not engage in their nonsense, they think they have won.
I work with people like this.
I find it hilarious that a guy with what sounds like a male version of Katharine Hepburn's accent could possibly be an icon of "Masculinity."
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How much can Jordon Peterson bench press? Was he a Marine? Kill a deer with a bow and arrow? Can he knock a guy out in one punch? Why is all this masculinity talk coming from a guy who looks and sounds like he would have gotten the ever loving cock-fuck pounded out of him in high school?
JP loves to move the goalpost. He's so awful at it too.
IMHO, he's a pompous ass who believes he is smarter than EVERYONE else. He speaks so poorly about women, I block any and all of his content I see.
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Something misfires in his brain very time he opens his mouth.
If you haven't seen the recent Some More News with Cody Johnson about JP, do yourself a favor and check it out
Also check out the very short first video they did
Mc: sir this is a McDonald’s
Intellectual powerhouse like a can of expired peaches
Used to like him.. until you heard him speak? Man, that caption is a facepalm in and of itself.
You know, people have off days. I have off days when I watch a video of his and think..wow, that was smart. Then I can see it again a week later and think wow, that was actually kind of a weak argument.. It's perspective. But, JP.....comes off as a contrarian for combative sake not sound argument sake. That's where I was getting at.
I see, I unfortunately had a small time where I edged into the alt right, and he was the only one in that edgy athiest-turned anti sjw sphere that irritated me with his word salads and contrarianism. Like I knew what the words meant as he said them, but it was always just unnecessary fluff to come across as smart. Talk about off days, those were some off months/years of mine.
Mom had a couple of his "self help" books years ago
We threw them in our firepit after she heard him actually start spouting bullshit
The constipated brow makes is asinine arguments seem serious
He satu long enough to become the villain
The rats, they go like this! 🐀
Canada's biggest embarrassment!
Lol
Motte and bailey
He is what fools think an intellect is.
Jordie Steedermin
He had lost his oats.. seriously
"NEXT!"
The problem is also the other philosophical commentators who won't outright call him on his bullshit. They'll be like, "Well, he isn't technically wrong by asking those questions. You just have to understand what he is trying to extract by that line of questioning, so that people can better understand his perspective on philosophy".
But, no, it's absolute horse shit word salad.
He and the gerbil looking guy are the equivalent of hadouken spammers of the debate world.
Nailed it.
He went from a fairly decent psycho therepist to a just psycho. I liked his early lectures on how taking on responsibilities gives you purpose and therefor happiness.
Jordan Peterson is the living definition of 'blather'.
He got demolished by every real intellectual on video, and tgen got made a bigger fool by a bunch of kids on video again. He never learned the basic lesson of never keeping record of your embarrassments, which JBP does on the regular.
The benzos killed his last 2 brain cells...
That's when you just ring him up for a Big Mac then point to the BP across the intersection.
My first time listening to him talk, it took him so long to get to his point that for a small moment I thought I had missed it and he was just way beyond me.
Then I rewinded and listened again, super intently and realized he never made a point, he never finished his thought, he just blabbered about something for a few minutes then changed the subject to something with no relation, cept to him.
Then I thought to myself, case closed, everyone's gonna realize he's a charlatan pretty quick.
But no... they didn't...
Since then I've been increasingly more away of just how stupid the average person is.
The only thing this is missing is JP bursting into tears at least twice
And he sounds just like Kermit the Frog, but a pretentious asshole. So Bizarro-Kermit.
Something that nobody bothered to warn me about and probably the funniest damn thing I’ve ever heard.
Overheard at the drive-thru.
Guy sure uses a lot of words to say nothing
Insufferable
That dude is an asshole
Copy editing makes him sound sane.
Grumpy arrogant asshat.
Nothing like being fucking dumb to make some else feel dumb but your dumb is magnitude 20.
I liked him when I first started listening to him 5 - 6 years ago. I even bought his audio books. I think the success went to his head and now he is just word salad. I don't listen or seek him out anymore.
So, this is very funny, and adroit, if I do say so.
The benzo's really fried his brain.
I don’t know who is and I’m glad.
I always thought about working in the same place as him and passing him in the corridor-
Me - Good Morning Mr Peterson
JP - what do you mean by good? What is morning?
Me - oh f*ck off!
My nephew is into Jordan Peterson, and claims he is some kind of savant. Just for grins, I listened to one of his lectures. I was shocked at how low intelligence is arguments were.
Every quote I ever heard from him is a both sides quote...
“I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil.”
“When you have something to say, silence is a lie.”
“And if you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.”
Its always this with that.... Its a formula with no substance.
For example...
You can't really know what black is unless you have seen white. Hey I'm as smart as this guy without the accent.
He is very annoying.
My hockey teammate said he likes listening to him. Well at least the highlights from him and Tate, like the TikTok versions where it’s the saner stuff that almost makes sense. Still lost a lot of respect for him.
He said a few smart things early on, and got a bit famous for it, and it completely broke his brain.
Just my opinion, but I think somewhere along the way JP turned into a grifter.
At one time, he had some insightful, even if controversial, views and things to say. As he approached retirement age, he figured out that writing books and giving incitement public speeches provided a lot more financial stability than a tenured professors pension. He's been riding that horse ever since and complaining all the way to the bank.
I used to like him until I heard him talk too.
It’s not that fucking deep, my guy do you want to eat some fries or not?
Just sounds like a confrontational asshole to me.
I didn't know anything about him until about 5 or so years ago. I listened to a debate of his and was initially impressed, I thought I'd really like this guy, but then he kept talking, lol. Using his faith to create arguments, looking like a fool when caught in a corner, he just oozed bullshit.
A once reasonable sounding man, who now post coma spends a lot of time on short form media, conflict debates and the Daily Wire. His ad-hoc debating skills definitely contradict a line I remember him saying to i think Cathy Newman. "I chose my words very carefully".
Now he's being paid by the word he's ontologically adrift.
Chasing an algorithm for a living and self-value must be a psychological spiral he's studied?
Listen you pretentious putz. Do you want fries, apple slices or a tresspaasing order
His original stuff based on his clinical practice was good. Lots of evidence-based research. But his deep dive into the Bible and metaphysics is just psychobabble.
Well, you used to be dumb.
I never liked him precisely because he bases so much of his argument on rhetorical frameworks instead of real logic. Even in the occasional instances that I agree with him.
Not enough post modern nonsense.
If it wasn’t obvious enough that he’s a fraud, his daughter pushing carnivore diet shit should help people see that the family business is fooling people out of money.
A friend of mine started listening to this idiot’s views on gender and followed down the algorithmic rabbit hole to form some really rigid views. Sad that too many people fall for his psuedo-intellectual bullshit when it’s clearly built on bad research.
Is that real???
Youngian archetype of the post modern cultural Marxists!
Jordan is the epitome of a guy who thinks he's a genius but no one bothers arguing because he'll still say he won. The human version of the pigeon playing checkers sitting on the board, knocking it over and screaming "IN YOUR LOSER LIBERAL FACE NOT EVERYONE IS A GENIIUS"
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