Walk With Me Here:
https://youtu.be/Cp_ODdylr-4?si=gcBzD802_hpdLr7D
The scene above is a brief 30 second conversation between Ross and Isaiah Bradley.
It provides 3 things, while doing it naturally and efficiently.
This scene in the first act of the movie, sets the stage of multiple thematic parallels that WOULD HAVE reverberated the entire runtime. I believe This scene was cut from the film for fear of being too close political commentary, as it recontextualizes Ross, Betty, The Leader, and Isaiah's characters. This is one of the shortest marvel movies and for some reason it is cutting layered well-acted 30 second conversations?
Isaiah Bradley comic origin is inspired by the Tuskegee Experiments, where the American Government tricked 100s of Black men into thinking they would receive treatment for Syphilis. In actuality, the government was using them for long-term observations of the harmful effects of the disease. Bradley's Captain America Origin is a grim reminder of this somewhat forgotten governmental abuse. Bradley's MCU origin remains unchanged.
Now remember what the deleted scene establishes. (1)Racial (2)Historical Abuse, and (3)Accountability regardless of whose fault it is. i.e. Not being born during Slavery, Black Code, Share Cropping, Jim Crow, and The Tuskegee Experiments does not mean you can't fix things.
Isaiah Bradley in Captain America: Brave New World serves as a thematic foil to The Leader, with their origins deliberately aligned to mirror historical injustices.
This narrative choice underscores Ross’s hypocrisy. In the deleted scene, he publicly condemns historical abuses, such as those endured by Bradley, but Ross repeats this cycle by unjustly imprisoning Bradley again and exploiting The Leader. The Leader’s retaliation against the Ross sharply contrasts with Bradley’s choice to disengage entirely.
This comparison deepens the film’s exploration of accountability and exploitation, with Ross as the hypocritical linchpin perpetuating historical wrongs.
The act 1 deleted scene explicitly foreshadows Ross’s arc: seeking forgiveness and accountability. This theme echos in his relationship with Betty, where his pursuit of personal redemption mirrors the subtext of government’s need to atone for systemic wrongs. Together, Isaiah, The Leader, and Betty form a trifecta of parallelism, with Ross’s hypocrisy and redemption at the narrative’s core.
The removal of the act 1 deleted scene is so crucial because I believe it strips the movie of the intended thematic message. I can actually see why Disney would be cautious as the theme in question would have caused the outrage they feared. With all of the aforementioned parallels, hammering away throughout the story, Ross' Primary Character arc is seeking forgiveness and finally taking accountability thematically. The subtext set up by the deleted scene would have extrapolated his accountability to a wider governmental context.
There might be more scenes that were stripped from this movie that reference back to this single deleted 30 second clip on youtube. Isaiah was reduced to a victim with no much personal agency. The Leader was less sympathetic then he arguably should have been given the reason he goes after Ross. Ross' character became less complete and I think there is a reason why Ross never takes accountability onscreen because it is tied to the aforementioned theme.
What do you guys think?
Name a more iconic duo that a Sam Wilson Captain America vehicle and Marvel cutting chunks of plot out to make it more "palatable".
“Hey, both sides are the same and both need to be better! Captain America awayyyyy”
You know, maybe giving cap wings and the ability to fly away wasn’t a great plan
“Do better Senator, but also, do better Terrorist! Cap out”
Didn't Sam agree with the Flag smashers? Didn't he tell the senator that he failed the people and created the terrorist.
I think most people wanted the govt to be more bad, flag smashers to be more nuanced
The show ended up being too afraid to make the govt genuinely corrupt and also scared ro make Flagsmashers too relatable.
So playing both sides effectively.
And creating a super mediocre show because of it.
"Stop branding the super soldier supremacists who bombed innocents as terrorists, okay Mr. Senator? It's YOU and John Walker over there who are the REAL problem here!"
why they delete this scene bruh
Right wing snowflakes.
We know why. They're afraid of the anti-woke weirdos who would scream and cry about it.
Weird since they scream and cry about every single thing marvel releases that headlines women. You'd think they would just ignore them at this point.
Unless... they agree... it is Disney.
Those people scream and cry the second a vaguely minority sounding name is even just hinted at.
To think that you can do anything to win these people over in a movie with a black Captain America has got to be the most naive executive decision ever made.
Some people might find it offensive.
Oy. That movie was cut up to hell including with massive reshoots. But damn, that tiny scene is nice indeed. Gives some nice background for both of them.
Kinda wish I hadn't seen this, because now I'm really frustrated that this was taken out - no doubt as some kind of appeasement to viewers too sensitive to accept the existence of historical injustice.
Yup definitely removed to appease the Fox News crowd who are currently bitching about Superman being an allegory about immigration
Focus groups were a mistake
Exhibit A: cut scene of lex Luther punching krypto the dog
Nah that should have been removed cause it would’ve been the only time I would have justified Superman committing murder in cold blood and then we’re back to Injustice Superman and I don’t need that.
The same Fox News that is angry about the immigration message in Superman? Color me shocked.
This just in: the literal space alien from another planet is, definitionally, an immigrant. More at eleven.
And, shock-horror, a refugee
wait does the new Superman movie make references to the OG immigration stuff and the more recent Superman Smashes the Klan story?
I actually really liked how that comic reframes Superman as being a little unsure about being a literal illegal alien as well as his image being co-opped by white supremacists.
In other news forks are found in kitchen
One would almost think their entire purpose was to foment outrage on a daily basis, regardless of what the facts at hand might happen to be.
Given that the current US dictator is trying to make it that nothing bad can be said about America's history, I feel like cutting this was them trying to stay safe from him and his minions
Which is crazy cause look what Andor did, folks who lean opposite will pay to support and endorse political content that actually calls out the shortcomings of the world. Appeasement never works.
This is a great scene and it also acts as a great little nugget of hypocrisy given that Ross is also currently holding an innocent super-powered being in captivity in order to further his own ends (albeit not due to racism).
It is deleteing part of my post for some reason:
"The Leader’s origin, significantly altered from the comics, parallels the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, much like Bradley’s backstory. In the film, The Leader believes Ross is curing his condition, but Ross is secretly exacerbating it for his own purposes, echoing the deceit and exploitation of Tuskegee."
sorry It's seperate. It supposed to see where the 2nd quote editors appear.
Edit: It seemed to have removed everything located in
These quote brackets
not sure why. I also had the direct quotes written so folks who didn't feel like watching the deleted scene can still follow my essay.
Well one issue is: why wouldn’t the leader know he was being tricked if his whole thing is being super intelligent. It makes much more sense to have the leader tricking Ross like the movie did
But he was only playing Ross because Ross lied to him in the first place. Given that he was placed into custody before his mutation really took hold, it’s not inconceivable that by the time he started to see the probabilities of every situation, he was already in custody and decided that working for Ross, with the promise of release, was at least worth the chance, knowing full well that if Ross betrayed him, he could hatch a plan like he does in the movie.
Wow Disney even censored your post
I actually think, it didn't like the quote edits
Like this
And It wouldn't let me add them after posting
Disney-marvel has really fucked itself post-pandemic by playing things WAY too safe.
They play too safe and it leaves you with a bitter aftertaste of what could have been.
Other than this captain America movie, what else?
I feel so bad for Anthony Mackie man, I want him to succeed but it doesn't seem like Marvel does. They've butchered his two Cap projects out of fear of upsetting people in the real world, whereas I think including those topics would've helped make both projects so much better!
FatWS got the virus plot removed because of covid and BNW had to go through reshoots because Disney forced them to keep filming when the strikes began. Literally all of Marvel problems post Endgame are because of Disney forcing them to pump out as many projects as quickly as possible.
I think FatWS should've kept the virus plot, as it would've made the show more topical during the time it was released and probably would've made viewers more invested in stopping the villains.
Station 11 is a weird show, but god damn did it hit so much harder watching it literally during the Covid pandemic.
They definitely should've kept it, if only because most of Karli's character development was in that subplot & they didn't bother replacing it with anything else to make up for that.
I... I swear this was in the version I saw in the theater. Am I tripping?
the beginning bit of "work with me Sam" was in the film. The bit with Bradley was not.
I feel like I'm having a Berenstein Bears moment here. I've definitely seen this scene and thought it was in the movie as well. Maybe it's already been posted and we just forgot that's where we saw it?
Yes you’re tripping
That "One of us was more likely than the other" was one of my favorite lines in the movie. I remember it specifically...
This feels like "Berenstein" bears all over again 😓
I’m with you. I swear most of this scene was in the version I saw opening night. I distinctly remember Ross’ line “That doesn’t mean I can’t do something about it”.
I went to opening night as well, and that scene of Ross talking to Bradley was not there. Maybe some theaters had different versions but that would be pretty strange.
I remember this scene too. I am in Canada, maybe it was only censored in the US?
Eh
I don’t think that scene adds much. The injustice upon Isaiah was already established earlier in the film (and previous content). We had already seen Ross indicate that he is trying to be better and authentic and open mindedly progressive or whatever. All this scene does is reinforce that the idea that Ross isn’t bluffing and is genuine.
The problems remain that:
asking us to remember and care about characters from prior films this far back is silly. Who gives a shit about Betty?
the villains scheme is nonsense, which is unforgivable because his entire thing is knowing the probability of all events. It’s completely bullshit that this guy made a plan that failed simply because it was a bad plan.
Ross’ arc about accountability feels shallow given he had imprisoned and manipulated the gross guy for decades
there’s not really any stakes to these ideas. Ross wants to help Isaiah and correct things? Cool, I guess. But there’s nothing at risk. It’s just establishing progressive vibes. Ross doesn’t really have any goals that make him seem like he has material virtuous intentions. The agreement to share adamantium is… not interesting.
Imo some quick fixes for the film: * Ross should have immediately forgiven Isaiah for trying to assassinate him even when the state is poised to immediately punish him again. That would have had a much larger emotional impact than this cut scene, and it would have done a lot more to position Ross’ beliefs. The way he acts, while not unreasonable, greatly muddy any credibility he had towards progressive ideas and amending injustice
Ross should have been unambiguously good and trustworthy and had an important thing that he wanted to do. For example: setting up a new international avengers initiative controlled by Sam independently focused on helping people. The audience should have felt disappointed when they learn the means behind his goals are evil because they want him to succeed.
Ross’ defeat as a hulk should have come primarily from him acknowledging that his means were outweighing the benefits
So I watched this movie for the first time on a plane, and this scene was in it. I distinctly remember it because I was thinking about how I wish our current president could be like that. Anyone going flying soon and want to confirm? It was American Airlines.
I mean I saw this scene in theaters. Maybe some previous versions of the movie got released somehow? A number of people in this thread now have said they've seen it
Was this deleted? I swear I remember seeing this scene in the cinema (UK if that makes a difference).
I don't think it made the film much more political though. Felt more like lip service / a throw-away line than anything else.
Yeah, I'm not sure what part was deleted, since I remember this scene from my watch on streaming. Maybe there was some line that was removed?
This movie was an easy skip for me. Thunderbolts was a much better film
The most gutless “political thriller” of the 21st century.
They should put that on the back of the dvd.
This had same levels of creative bankruptcy as the Rise of Skywalker. Both absolutely cowered away from making big swings. (Or committing to big swings in TROS’s case).
Stop using ChatGPT to write Reddit posts.
People can’t write for themselves or have their own opinions now. Literacy is gunna be even worse!
1/2 the movie is reshot, there prob a whole another movie using just the original scenes
I pirated this movie and this scene was in the version I watched.
I watched this clip waiting for the new stuff, but I’d already seen it
I thought the movie was fine on its own, but man this really could’ve left in the theatrical cut and would’ve given it even just a tiny bit more depth.
Oh well, here’s to hoping there’s a directors cut of this movie that gets released sometime down the road with all of the other filmed scenes.
This is Disney. It's never going to give us director's cuts of any of its films.
I think there is enough AI slop on the internet by now. We don’t need chatbot-generated discussion posts on r/marvelstudios.
Thanks, ChatGPT. Interesting. Now can I talk with a human?
human right here. Wassup
I don’t think it changes the film as much you think
I think the biggest problem in BNW was that they tried to tie up too many knots and for the life of me I can't understand why. I think originally it was going to be sth Serpent Society related with Seth Rollins seen on set, presumably in some role. Honestly it would hav been more fun Spy thriller with Sam Wilson going against the Serpent Society and their machinations.
Minor quibble:
Is it fair to say that Ross unjustly incarcerated Bradley, since the brainwashing stuff wasn’t known at the time he attacked Ross?
We know it almost immediately as the audience, but (unless I’m misremembering) the authorities in the movie don’t.
I think they cut it because they wanted the audience to wonder if Ross was part of the set up.
Was this in a trailer or sneak peak or something because either I'm having deja vu or I've seen this before.
Disney seems to hold a very specific political leaning and rarely deviates from that. That has proven to be basically a big downer that many disagree with. No one likes to go to a movie about super heroes and get the white guilt treatment. The "You've got to do better Senator" line in Cap and Falcon was so cringy and felt like it was written by a highschooler. I think they likely were making this script along the same and had to do a major course correction. Of course it was going to end up mediocre at best. It seems a lot of modern big budget movies come in and change scripts, or come in with incomplete scripts and figure things out as they go which is what has created a lot of weak stories lately. (there were also writer strikes mixed in there which doesn't help)
I don’t even know who this was supposed to have offended. Is just acknowledging that bad things were done in the past a political statement now?
Pretty sure general audiences never wanted a political thriller that focuses on race. The movie was bound to be an eye roller either way.
After having seen Superman, this shit is so weak, lol. I genuinely hope we see a return to bravery and boldness in comic book films.
Dude put more thought into this post than anyone did on the whole script. Well written
Am I going crazy or did I see this scene in the cinema?? I’m in the UK I literally remember this scene
IMO, no one has been let down more by post-Endgame MCU than Anthony Mackie.
His intro in Winter Soldier is top 3 all time for me in terms of a non-core Avenger. That roof scene? Incredible. He's not the greatest actor the MCU has ever had, but his chemistry with Steve and Bucky was solid. He was absolutely the right pick.
And then they just keep giving him the most hamfisted scripts where everyone has to explain everything like they're talking to a 5 year old child. He's reduced to just a character that's part of a plot, vs. the driving force of the show/movie.
What the... I'm almost sure that I saw this scene in theater in France the first week... Is it possible that we get a different version or that they remove the scene after the release ?
Its possible you may had gotten an different cut, something similar happened with Endgame, where people claimed they swore they saw an scene where Thor tries to kiss Valkyrie............but others like me never saw that scene, then it turns out that scene did in fact exist but was cut from the movie. so only way it makes sense for these people to have seen a deleted scene is if their theaters were given an early cut
People are saying Marvel was afraid to take a risk….well yea it’s the mouthbreathers afraid of the political and social commentary. Especially the so-called long time comic book readers.
People could barely handle what they did address in FAWTS. They’d say Ross had “white guilt” or some silliness.
The problem with this movie couldn’t be fixed in 30 Seconds.
Isaiah needed to continue being an active threat similar to winter soldier.
Sam needed to be put in between Isaiah and Ross continually. Isaiah needed some Killmonger level monologuing without the girlfriend murdering issues.
Don’t waste great actors!!!!!!!!!
All of marvels shorter movies or shows could be so K in better if they weren’t so short. Taking out short scenes that add context to the story and characters doesn’t make any sense. Why is any MCU movie after end game less than 2 plus hours ?
I really enjoyed this movie
I liked it too, thought Sam and especially Ross were really well acted and I loved the scene around Celestial Island a ton. The inclusion of adamantium finally was exciting too. I had issues with it, but like some of the other phase 4 and 5 movies I feel it is overhated. It's a 7/10 IMO - enjoyable, middle of the road superhero movie that could've been an 8/10 with better editing and CGI.
I've come to terms with the fact that a lot of people have higher standards than me, I enjoy Star Wars shows like Ahsoka too. I can see flaws without it ruining the movie or show as long as there are redeeming qualities. These days it feels like media is either amazing or horrible for people, no real in-between or just "it was an enjoyable enough film but quite flawed".
So silly to pamper to everyone, marvel comics have always been critical of the state of the world. They even cut the virus subplot from FatWS rendering the flag smashers completely irrelevant to the show basically
Captain America: New World Boring.
Anyone offended by this scene would have been offended at the entire concept of the film anyway, they had nothing to lose by keeping it.
They deleted anything political to avoid offending people and the movie wound up being about nothing as a result.
They deleted anything that could avoid offending people except for Sam Wilson as a black Captain America, who definitely still offends people.
(It shouldn’t, but does)
The entire point of the movie should have been touching on that and calling it out.
Racists shouldn't be made to feel comfortable. We shouldn't fall into the Pradox of Tolerance and censor ourselves so bigots can feel safe.
Disney shat the bed because someone up top is complicit with racism, full stop. "Don't make the movie too divisive, because we can't alienate the white people who don't like black people!"
Unfortunately the entire point of the movie is to make money and Disney doesn't care if that money comes from racists.
Republicans buy shoes too.
Pandering to evil is straight up lunacy.
Movies about Heroes fighting Villains being made by cowards kowtowing to fascists. What an odd place we find ourselves in.
Man, you put that to words very well.
Also, what did it get Disney? All these dipshits who say they want entertainment that isn't "political" got it, and they didn't exactly line up around the block for it.
Do we know that this is complicity with racism, and not just an editing decision we disagree with?
Because as @ThePokemonAbsol said, they made a whole show focusing on the racism. They brought Isaiah Bradley in as a character, and kept all the really awful stuff that happened to him. The stuff they kept in the movie features him being taken advantage of and imprisoned for something that wasn’t his fault. And the show he was introduced him had the climactic Captain America superhero speech where Sam explicitly says that he knows people hate him just for wearing the Star and Stripes.
I would have liked the deleted scene because it added a layer of tragedy — that Bradley was treated like a patsy again, just as he was getting proper recognition for how he was treated — but even without it, all the scenes with him stay pretty firmly directed toward racism as a topic.
We had a whole show about that…
I think far less people give a shit that he is black. Do I like him as captain America? Nope. His character is a b-list hero, whom they even made fun of in ant man. He has done nothing to "earn" the shield. plus it just makes no sense to use the shield without having the serum. His wings already act as a shield. he was never that likeable to begin with. He had no real struggle to overcome.
Bucky should have been the next cap. He has an interesting backstory with internal demons to deal with. Plus his arm combined with the shield would just be cool.
I missed where I said that for something to count as offensive, it would need to be offensive to everyone.
Also, everything after “b-list hero” is wildly wrong.
I’ve been saying this for months! The movie was about NOTHING!
And now that James Gunn has the balls to get political with Superman and the reviews are good, Marvel decides to drop this. Disney are such performative slimeballs.
The video is 3 months old way before anything to do with superman
This video was dropped months before superman was even released?
Drop what, the latest Captain America movie? Which came out literal MONTHS before Superman released? 😂
It is almost more offensive to make it so dumb and dull rather than a bite. The message likely is one, if done with nuance and intention, could be one that actually impacts people in personal and reflective ways.
People looking to be offended (those with notably bad intentions like rage commentators) will be no matter what. Their goal is to make money off of outrage.
And the usual people were still offended because they get clicks from anger.