Just being free from Matt Ishiba is a victory in itself
Imagine being able to build a title contender under the dysfunction of Sarver's ownership and somehow things got worse once Sarver was ejected.
He could have been free earlier, if he had dyed his mustache blonde and called Ishbia a cracker.
"fine me for that!"
got fined for that
Missed on some draft picks no doubt, but built a Finals team and a great culture before Ishbia steamrolled him and ruined everything. Good luck JJ.
last 2 drafts i think he was actually really good
Mainly Jalen smith over Hali that he gets deservedly raked over the coals for. Didnât value 1st enough (traded a pick for Shamet). But hard to blame kd/beal trades on him
He draft Camara which was a gem too
I said that no? Glad you agree tho he has an awesome game
lol, my B!
even cam Johnson
I remember everyone in this sub (including me) were laughing at the cam Johnson pick especially with the Coby White reaction during the presscon
You got CP3 literally two days before the draft. I donât think itâs that egregious at the time.
Hali was a combo guard that could play 1 next to book, play 2 next to cp3, and learn pg mastery from cp3. His off ball 3 was a big reason sac drafted him next to their existing pg
Idk personally I was hyped that Hali dropped, thought it was perfect. Didnât expect him to develop into the nbas best passing guard but did think he was a perfect fit
Im willing to throw the covid draft entirely when judging GMs. It was just s tough spot to identify things
Yeah like see: Golden State
Yeah there's an alternate reality in which Hali takes over for CP3 and the Suns continue to contend without making any desperation moves.
I'm personally glad we're not in that reality
could be worse, Knicks drafted Obi Toppin over Hali when we already had like 4 PFs on the roster and our only PG at the time was, if I remember right, fucking Elfrid Payton
I don't really blame anyone for missing on Hali given his jumpshot form. He looked solid on the Kings in his minutes but it wasn't like he was clearly a surefire All-NBA guy.
Revisionism is quite high but Hali was like a top 5 prospect pre draft who fell. It was good value at our pick, the other slam dunk pick pre draft was Vassell but we ended up reaching on a guy who would be there in the 20s.
He caught my eye as one of the best rookies that year , 12 plus points plus a lot of 10 plus assists game is killer shit
Even the Jalen Smith pick wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. He's turned into a solid player and the Suns should have held onto him longer.
Yeah honestly Monty never fucking played him and he was the exact kind of player we needed when we were desperate for bench players these last two years
The last couple of drafts have been Ishbiaâs cronies
That josh jackson story early in his tenure where jackson skipped a fan meetup so jones went to apologize to the fans makes me like the guy
He missed on draft picks because Sarver didnât pay for a real scouting team
Decent GM that got the blame for the idiocy and lunacy of Mat Ishbia
No one blamed him
Fuck him. Drafted a dumb fucking center when we needed a pg. Could've had hali
Jalen Smith was an absolute whiff, sure...but why would Jones have drafted a PG when y'all just got CP3 and had Payne off the bench? I mean, CP3 on that team is why they got to the Finals lol
Cause CP3 was already ancient and Cameron Payne..Lol
But, CP3s ancient ass got you to the finals so he was still there⌠and he wasnât even bad the next year, obviously not great but he was still usable.
The year after the finals he was awesome until he turned 37, thats when the shit hit the fan.
He put up 33/5/8 without missing a shot in game 6 against the Pels to put them away.
All that said they should have still had a plan for after him and I get the frustration with not drafting hali, especially when we already had a good young center at the time.
You dont bet on old and injury prone. Should have a back up plan especially when you have Ayton who still looked okay at the time.
Draft for BPA not need
Yeah and 11 other teams passed on Hali too when he was clearly the best player available to the point Bilas was losing his shit as teams kept passing on him lmao
Ehhh, Wolves and Hornets get a pass
They had Ayton with a bum ankle and federal investigation, Saric and Kaminsky at C, it was a need
Talk during that time was that they needed a CP3 successor and Hali fit that perfectly.
Bruh they just brought CP3 in THAT same off season as the big FA acquisition to lead the team, which he did to the Finals - in no way were they ever drafting Hali, Maxey or any PG in that draft with Payne on the bench too lmao
Y'all wildin with these nephew revisionism takes lmao
there were plenty of suns fans advocating for hali at 10, itâs not revisionism at all.
also, cam payne, at the time, was a guy whoâd been essentially signed off the streets on a minimum deal for the bubble and had 8 good games. saying âthey had cam payneâ is more revisionist than anything
Dude thinks that drafting another big a few season after drafting Ayton is smart lmao. Maybe this is James Jones' burner.
Imagine thinking that drafting a potential successor to a HOF PG is revisionism because you have a serial backup on your roster, and that drafting another C when you just drafted one first overall a couple years ago is better.
Yeah but they signed Cam Payne, who was still promising, to be CP3's backup and hopefully learn from him too. Payne played 18 mpg as primary backup, something rookie Hali wouldn't have gotten from Monty even y'all had drafted him.
I do remember that Suns fans wanted to draft Hali...but so did fans on other teams who passed on him as well, same with Bilas who mocked him as a top 4-6 pick after the top 3 and couldn't believe all the teams who passed on him too lol
Lmao Cam Payne was not seen as promising when the suns signed him, there's tons of stuff from around that time from his Bulls / Cleveland stints where he was seen as one of the worst players in the league.
Nephew takes? How old was CP3 then? The consensus at the time was they needed a guard or a wing, not another big.
FYI you have the nephew take - imagine drafting Jalen Smith (another big) when you just drafted Ayton a few seasons ago. gtfo he saying that Hali was a reach for the Suns at the time.
They traded for cp3 like 5 months after the draft bro. They went into the draft with a PG need and didnât draft one
I mean why draft a developmental backup center when you want to contend either
Because CP was old? CP was always a stop gap given his age.
Do you really not remember that season when Chris Paul went into a sharp decline right after his birthday? When we needed a point guard for the future, it was the perfect time since we still had CP3 to mentor him. Payne was not impressive except for one playoff game as well
Heâs been Suns fans scapegoat for years
You apparently don't spend time on r/Suns
Dude a solid GM, but most Suns fans think he's a wanker. I'll definitely miss "Champ".
I mean, I kind of blame him.
I feel like Ishbia gets all the criticism anytime a bad move is made. Some were obviously driven by Ishbiaâs priorities, but Iâd bet many of the bad deals were also spearheaded by Jones.
And the dude drafted Jalen freaking Smith over Tyrese Haliburton back in in 2020 before Ishbia was brought on. He also opted for Ayton over Luka, although some rumors suggest that was owner driven.
Itâs not even like Hali was an unknown during that draft either. Hali was sliding and he was a consensus lottery pick and we took Jalen fucking Smith, a center at a position we didnât need, and a dude who was mocked as a mid second round talent.
No excuse, imo.
What?! The GM that hated and dispelled value of draft picks, whiffed on Haliburton for Jalen Smith, Luka for Ayton ?
He stunk. Suns are lucky their players get to live* in Scottsdale
Ayton was a McD pick, not James.
Okay , Iâd criticize other draft picks but he was too busy trading all your first rounders.
And if my memory serves me, McD wanted Luka and Sarver/Jones wanted Ayton.
Thatâs before he signed off on the Bradley Beal trade which is arguably worse than any of his draft moves.
The story I read was basically McD and Sarver wanted Ayton and Igor Kokoskov wanted Luka.
As far as Jones he came in and did some great stuff initially. Bringing in CP, drafting Cam, some nice depth signings. But after 21 he was a disaster, in my opinion. Not sure how much was Ishbiaâs fault but still.
I think I saw at somewhere in the past that McD had a move for SGA with their second first round pick but it was axed for some reason .
I think Sarver really wanted Mikal. Objectively great pick but yeah, missing SGA sucks.
Ayton was the consensus #1 pick in 2018. He built a finals team, the suns w Nash never made the finals. Suns fans should be grateful towards him just like how Knicks fans should be grateful for Thibs. Some of the best years in Suns history.
Luka was considered #1 for ~90% of the time starting from 2 years prior to the draft, before the lottery took place, and before the clueless American media who never watched a minute of him decided he wasn't athletic enough and Ayton should go #1.
Most draft analysts worth a damn, who actually follow EU basketball, explicitly said that Luka was hands down the best prospect, but they mocked Ayton ahead of him, because they expected Suns to pick him.
Mock drafts post-lottery aren't the best player available lists, but rather a mix of prospect quality and the expectations of which team picks them based on need and sources.
Here's what Givony said about Doncic in a podcast with Pelton a few weeks before the draft, just after saying he mocks him at #5 to Dallas, as he felt the odds were 50/50 that he'd drop outside of top4:
"It's important to note that I don't agree with these assessments. When a player his age has been as good as Doncic has in every setting, it's easy to expect him to continue to be really, really good in the NBA. Guys like him find a way, especially once they start to develop physically. So, like you, I would take Doncic No. 1. He's just too productive, too skilled, too smart and too good a fit in the modern game to pass up. I'll take my chances on a 6-foot-8, 230-pound point guard with a prodigious feel for the game every time.
But I understand why Americans (at every level of basketball) continue to question European players and whether their games translate. There's an inherent bias that is difficult to overcome. Fairly or not, Doncic will be a fascinating test case who will shape how future international prospects are judged."
Yeah that whole thing was such bullshit. People were really acting like NCAA was better competition than euroleague
Ayton played poverty against a Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber center rotation for 7 games and was ultimately benched. Dude lost all the goodwill he got from the finals run that they could atleast say he was young and had a hard time with Giannis being the help defender for Brook Lopez.
One of the flukiest finals runs of all time
Incoming Masai...
Wait actuallyâŚâŚhmmmm
Who do you think Rich Paul called to make Maluach fall to Ishbia?
Man thatâs be some 4D chess there. Pass on Maluach and youâll get him in Phoenix.
Did he ever attend Michigan State University?
Iâd forgive Ishiba for KD and Beal if he gets him
Jalen Green and Dillon Brooks is 2/5 of the starting lineup of the second best team in the west. As far as Beal goesâŚitâs not your money.
Zero chance he wants to work for a meddling owner when he can essentially pick his spot. Heâs got more than enough money to wait a year and chill.
Where?
Suns
Doubt it. Masai probably has enough cred to get a better job than that. Thatâs an empty void job even if they fire the guy they just hired.
Plus he didnât go to Michigan.
âpacers draft pickâ is input awkwardly
It's coming from a Pacers writer
Its still incredibly irrevelant
Scott Agness' audience is Pacers fans so that's how he writes. I don't know why OP used his tweet but James Jones being a former Pacer is relevant to Scott's followers.
Miami legend.
James Jones with an all time LinkedIn job hopping progression path
Well played
Seriously. Dude rose so fast.
This should help Mat be âmore involvedâ
I guess that Beal buyout is not going to happen now
Brothers from the 2003 draft will be in retirement homes while LeBron is still playing
I bet Pelicans fans only saw âHe replaces Joe Dumarsâ and got excited
Respect to him man. Cool to see guys I grew up watching stay in the game and go far in their second career
Congrats to him, Suns GM is probably the worst job in the league right now.
Wizards GM?
No shot they have intriguing young players, picks, and cap flexibility. Honestly theyâre not even bottom 5 anymore. Iâd rather be them than the Suns, Kings, Pelicans, Raptors, Bulls, or Nets. There is probably some other teams theyâre in a better spot than as well.
Yeah. Some people just donât follow ball that closely and think the Wiz are still stuck in the Ernie Grunfeld era.
Meanwhile, his draft peer was named All-NBA 2nd team last season.
Perfect, Suns sleeper agent in NBA Corporate to... do something
Literally there is no way he can be worse than Dumars at this so Iâll take it
Others will miss him, I wonât. He hit on some players, and can bring in veterans, but holy shit were the misses worse than the hits. You can say it was both Robert and Matt but he was the one who decided to have no scouting department. We owe him a lot but it was time
He was a year late on getting a backup center and then on a backup point guard. Both were glaring problems at the trade deadline.
Seems like he stopped really having any decision making power as soon as Ishbia bought the team. I'm surprised no other team went after him to run their front office
LeBron just secured his line to the league office. He's getting that Vegas team.
Heat legend
Ah yes, 2003 Pacers draft pick James Jones. Thatâs how I always remember him.Â
Clearing the way for the IT/ Ishbia partnership.
Look what your contemporaries have achieved, Bron. You're getting left behind on the career ladder
Here comes IT
Isiah Thomas bout to get an official title
HEAT legendÂ
Pacers legend!
(played 24 minutes for us).
As a Suns fan, I wish him the best of luck
Matt Ishbia vs. Nico Harrison whoâs worse?
I think we gotta wait and see if ishbia randomly trades Booker away for pennies
Ishbia the type of waive Booker
Im curious why Nico gets blamed instead of the Adelson's and Dumont, while the Sun's blame is reversed. Both are cases of new owners making big changes, so I feel we should blame ownership in both cases.
because nico doubles down on it and is high profile about it
whereas in the suns situation the owner is high profile about it and not james jones
I think its literally just name recognition. James Jones isn't answering to them, but in the background could have the same attitude as Nico. Mavs ownership could be talking the same as Ishbia in the background. I don't think there's a 'good' reason one is blamed over the other. it's just whoever was caught up in the narrative first.
Idk, Nico is a fucking idiot but the Mavs are still a well built team without Luka which is wild in itself. The Suns have been a disaster since Ishbia became owner.
The only reason the Mavs are "well built" is because they lucked into Cooper Flagg lmao.
I'm sure if you gave the Suns the 1st overall pick their situation would look better lmao. That has nothing to do with either GM
Even without Flagg the Mavs are a decent team, Flagg just takes us to another level. Our biggest issue is health. AD and Kyrie arenât iron men and we donât have anyone that can remotely carry a depleted team like Luka did if Kyrie gets injured.
damn Jones ditched
[deleted]
He didn't dip he just started the job lol. Joe dumars dipped he previous job to fuck the pelicans next draft.
hopefully this means the NBA will call the games favorably for the pacers like they did OKC this year
How many finals in a row did James Jones have? 10?
they both have mostly sucked at their jobs...
Passed up on drafting Luka. Say what you will about where Ayton was at the time but there was still a LOT to like about Luka.
Tbf at that time it made sense to pair Ayton with Booker for a two man duo, no one knew Ayton would be lazy. The Kings drafting Bagley was a travesty.
Jones exiting the Suns to leave Mr Ishbia alone w his thoughts đ
He is just gonna buy a mirror to bounce ideas off himself
Thats brian gregory
Mathew Randall Ishbia tuned him out 2 years ago.
Zeke has been shadow GM for a minute now
Alone with Isiah Thomas