soccer
Zidane Iqbal on why he left Man U: “I was supposed to start a cup game vs Charlton. I got tickets for family and friends to see me. Then I got to the stadium, looked at the whiteboard and didn't see my name. That was the turning point. I didn't feel the manager respected me enough to play me.”
Discussion
Telling a young player you will start and then not starting him is pretty disgusting, it can fuck over their confidence too.
Lisandro Martinez came up to me and said: 'Now's your chance'. He talked to me and said, 'all of us are supporting you. Just show yourself, you're a good player. We're going to fight for you, make sure you're ready to fight'
Honestly this whole situation wouldn't just piss of Iqbal but I reckon the rest of the team too. You see this and are not exactly inclined to 100% trust your manager again.
I tried my best to support Erik but man did he ever fucking set us back
Honestly the whole spell under Ten Hag was such a catastrophe. The money spent, the terrible signings, the behind the scenes stuff, the decline in league form and loss of any concept of structure or idea how to play. After so many years of slowly burning through our accumulated spare lives financially, so to speak, to then get to the point the money plateaued and started to decrease post Covid and follow it up with that mess was the worst timing and led to where we are now. The only things he did well was win a couple of cups and offload Ronaldo.
Keep going, I'm almost finished
Although I am not trying to defend ETH, a lot of the issues during his tenure was out of his hands.
The Maguire Greece incident, Rashford being a crybaby, Sancho playing FIFA, Ronaldo with the Pierce Morgan interview, the Antony domestic abuse allegations, the Greenwood case, the ownership dilemma. There has been A LOT of problems outside of the pitch that the manager doesn't have control of, I don't think a lot of managers could handle all of this...
That’s not the behind the scenes stuff I’m talking about, it’s more the stories coming out about his attitude and behaviour as a man manager. His treatment of Amad as well.
Tbh he did handle Ronaldo and Sancho as best he could. The Maguire Greece incident though didn’t happen under Ten Hag it happened under Ole. It was August 2020, just how long do you think he’s been in charge?? And he did not handle the greenwood incident at all well, he was understood to be in favour of reintegration which was obviously a nonstarter and very controversial in the dressing room.
I don't think he handled Ronaldo well at all, given that Ronaldo's life off the pitch went to hell for a while with the twins. I don't give a shit who you are, anyone who loses one twin and almost the other one over 3-4 months is going to struggle. I've lost a baby myself and had family go through almost the exact thing with twins and losing one. Tl;dr lots of alcohol and therapy.
I personally think ETH lacks the empathy to support someone through personal struggles. I get the argument that it's not his job, but on the other hand it means he failed to get the best out of one of the greatest players in history. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Fergie would have handled it all very very differently.
As a complete outsider (arsenal fan) i actually think he handled the bigger issues, out of his hands, pretty well as you say. But it seems his man management lacked the modern level of empathy or understanding of young men needed to create a positive environment - perhaps wouldn't be an issue in other clubs where there were stronger networks and support setup already, but clearly united has had an underlying cultural issue for a while. So instead it seems over time he eventually added to this not for so much his actions, but the lack of them in how he managed the players and broader squad day to day. He just wasn't the right type of guy for your club at that time and im sure hes still a decent manager. Looking at arsenal for example, one of our young coaches who just left to be a manager - Carlos Cuesta, seems like exactly the type united need (not as a manager but to work with the players) - he's a super young, high energy guy who empathised with and understood the players very well and from all reports was almost a confidant on the coaching team for them. Which given we were making a cultural reset with a bunch of young players has seemed invaluable to our progress
not saying united don't have someone like this, i wouldn't know, just adding to the convo and comparison
Honestly I was worried from the very start when there were already rumors that he told United to get rid of Ragnick without as much as talking to him.
Imagine coming into a really tough high profile job with lots of unknown variables, and you have the unique possibility of your predecessor taking up a consultancy/advisory role to get you up to speed. Instead you put all your energy into negotiating consolidation of your own power.
To me it gave the impression that not only he felt insecure without total control over matters (usually not a good sign when someone is unwilling to decentralize power lest their decisions be questioned), he was also looking at United from a power-struggle perspective from Day 1, instead of "this is a broken club I need to figure out how to fix it".
So while I do agree he handled Ronaldo and Sancho okay overall, one helps but wonder what sort of atmosphere this school teacher mentality created (ironically for all the PE teacher vibes accusations OGS was much much better at the team culture bit, even if it wasn't perfect given his favoritism to some squad members). And how much of the man management issues that he handled poorly were basically of his own creation.
Nvm shoving any long term plans of fixing the club with Ragnick down the proverbial drain.
The Maguire Greece incident preceded his time at the club, along with Greenwood. The latter only became a story once again because old Erik wanted to bring him back (along with Murtough). Also the ownership dilemma actually helped him because he would have lost his job in December 2023 if the Glazers were still around. He had more backing than any of his predecessors and you're acting like he was hard done by.
The Greenwood case wasn’t 100% out of his hands. By all accounts he supported Greenwood’s reintegration to the squad. Lost a lot of respect for him due to that.
If it was just one it might be understandable, but having the academy star, best player in club history, and marquee signing all crash out around the same time is most certainly indicative of poor man management. The Maguire incident predated ETH by almost two years, so not sure why that's relevant. Anthony was his guy that he brought from Ajax, you could definitely make the case that's in part ETH's poor judgement. Really, only the Greenwood case was outside his control.
ETH and the club ensured Ronaldo he'll get playing time, so he refused to entertain the Arab interest in the summer. He then goes to bench Ronaldo. He then goes to say how much he respects Ronaldo to sub him in with only 20+mins to play, regardless if they need a goal; and the next weekend he tries to sub him in at 90+min after leading on Spurs.
It's not his fault that Ronaldo did the interview, but he definitely escalated the situation by giving false promises, respecting/disrespecting him(mixed signals of "I respect him too much to play him as a sub, even when we're a goal down" to "let me sub you in 92th min when leading by 1 goal" the next match), treating him as someone who has to prove himself and so on.
Just notice the difference in treatment by PSG and Messi(and Messi WASN'T and ISN'T a PSG legend, like Ronaldo is Utd's) and Ronaldo's treatment in the last season. Messi, even when underperforming and not having much impact, given playing time regardless; given to take a pen vs RM in Best of 16 and so on. Utd, meanwhile, treated Ronaldo like shit and basically forced him out. Many fans turned against him, Neville and Rooney voiced how he's the problem; ETH started benching him and giving false promises; the club as well.
ETH did push for Antony, although the transfer fee isn't his fault, but him as a transfer target was ETH's doing. Him being consistently played, when underperforming, was also ETH's decision.
It is so inexplicable to me that so many Utd fans took ETH's side, when he's someone who hasn't done anything for the club ever and is an unproven manager that was, basically, disrespecting your own club's legend, who has proven himself for the club and done crazy stuff.
I don't know why ETH's apologists always omit the facts that Ronaldo was given false promises and sent many mixed signals of "being important", but being "benched" and having to prove himself; "being too good for a sub" to then sub him when leading and so on, which is a mockery of how you treat even an average player in your club, let alone a legend and a superstar, lol. And that before a WC, possibly his last at the time. You could have just let him go in the summer, when there was interest, and be done with it. Why he went to be treated this way by the club and many fans is beyond me.
Like "No, stay, we need you, we'll play you, you're important" to "you're the freaking problem, rot on the bench".
Not to mention, when his son died, he was ridiculed for missing preseason and deemed unprofessional by united management and fans. Even Liverpool fans were more empathetic towards him than United. He really should've joined Man city instead when he had the chance.
Get out of here with your facts and logic mate.
- The Pierce Morgan interview was Ronaldo forcing his way out and burning bridges. I blame ETH for a lot of that.
- Dortmund and Chelsea don't seem have had the same problems with Sancho. Feels like you just need to hire him a PA/driver.
- He was in favour of reintegrating Greenwood.
He's good at supporting rapists, but not people with mental health issues or struggling with personal issues.
The maguire Greece incident happened 5 years ago, what does that have to do with Erik??
He seems to have exceptionally poor people skills. A very well respected coach at just about every club he's been at sans United. He just seems not to understand how to talk and deal with people.
That's coming from an outsider of course, but stories like these don't do him any favours.
Manager never told him he would start
It was heavily implied which I believe at least warrants some sort of explanation if you then not get a single minute.
It's one conversation to potentially salvage the relationship and not completely alienate a young player in front of the whole squad and by extension his family and friends.
i think even if Iqbal is wrong to assume he was starting (or jumping the gun) its pretty clear other players also made this assumption - martinez, so realising this disappointment the coaching setup should probably reflect on how they are communicating to players because clearly something is breaking down there. So whatever the cause, the end result is the same as you say - have a conversation, try to understand and then realise if this is something you can also improve upon moving forward. Very easy way to make the player still feel valued and hopefully salvage things as you say
I agree, the manager should have been aware he was expecting to start. Or Martinez should have talked to the manager since he also expected Iqbal to start. Situation could have been avoided
Recently just rewatched the 99 documentary. Champions league final Ferguson picked Jasper Blomquist to start on the left, Giggs went to the right and Beckham was in the center.
When asked why he picked that set up, he answered "because I already told Blomquist he will play, so he is playing"
Sure, it could have backfired, but it's things like that which got average players to run through a brick wall for him.
He did the same with Ji-Sung Park in the 10/11 final as well iirc
God I miss 3 lung park so much
He was such a big game player and he never stopped hustling
Underrated player no doubt.
I'd ride or die with anybody who treated me like that
Just Ten Hag things 🤷♂️
I think there is a scenario where it is ok/necessary - if you realise late in the day that the tactics are badly off or something. But my goodness I would be calling the guy into my office asap and offering a sincere apology and setting out how I would make the situation right.
That seems pretty embarrassing for him. In front of everyone who he loves enough to want to see in the stands in for his debut. They all must have been so excited.
he must have been super excited too. imagine your first start for your club, a club like united, and everyone you love is watching... only for the dream to get shut down just before the game. he mustve been thinking about when he woke up too. i actually really feel for him, I'd have thought about leaving too.
Also without being directly approached by the manager. Like he didnt even deserve to be told face to face with a bit of empathy.
When watching some shows, I sometimes think how contrived the plot is, because the issue could often have been solved by a bit of communication.
But as we can see, the exact same thing happens in real life. The situation might easily have been smoothed over if Ten Hag took the time to explain to Iqbal why he would have to renege on his promise before the game.
Or even after. But he didn’t care for it so that’s why
very common in real life that people really underestimate the impact of their decisions on others - in particular a lack of empathy for how a small choice for you may have a big influence on someone else.
Not the same thing, but we see examples like it everywhere - like when you're waiting for a response from a dream job etc and getting worried they havent' replied yet and then remind yourself to the recruiter you're just another name on a list potentially and at the end of a long day they may just go 'oh shit ill get to that tomorrow', meanwhile you spend all night up in bed worrying if you fucked up somehow.
Obviously this one is a shit case for Iqbal and the manager should 100% do better, so in agreement with your point, just wanted to add how common stuff like this can be in every day life
At work last month a new role got advertised, that would have been a great step for my career and moving into what I wanted to do when I graduated, rather than my current job which I like but isn’t my dream job.
No communication from my manager before, no communication when I applied and didn’t get an interview.
I learned from another manager I get on with from a different department, my manager doesn’t want me to leave my current position because I’m too good at it - so wouldn’t offer me this despite being one of the best applicants.
Obviously I will be leaving due to this, and have something lined up for September. I’ve decided to book all remaining annual leave I’d be entitled to leading up to that date, and it means I will only have to work 1 week of my month’s notice - which will royally fuck my manager.
play stupid games, win stupid prizes. good luck in the new role.
I know this might be hard to do right: but consider communicating to your manager this is why you're leaving (without implicating the other manager who you're on good terms with of course). You could even frame it as confusion regarding why you weren't even considered instead of explicit knowledge that you were actively prevented from pursuing your career.
In the best case your manager might learn something from it and not repeat the mistake. In the worst case, well at least you tried telling these buffoons to stop making every decision with horse blinders on.
This is something I'm trying to get better at doing myself, but it's so hard for me to properly estimate the impact my small choices have. On the flip side I usually try to give others the benefit of the doubt when I'm on the receiving end
Thank you for this! I needed this perspective at this specific moment in time. I was arguably betrayed by a friend a while back. We talked about it. The unfortunate end result came to a head last night. I might still write off two former friends. But, at least I'm considering it.
Sorry to hear that, never an easy choice - I think sometimes just saying 'for now im putting myself first' and then seeing how you feel with time/distance can also be a good option in these instances (for me at least makes it easier than trying to make the black/white decision in the moment). Hope things get better, either way
They're both really infuriating I have to say.
Against fucking Charlton Athletic at that. No reason why you wouldn't give some game time to a young player in a low stakes game like a cup game against a league one side
Against fucking Charlton Athletic at that
Oi! Why are we catching strays here 😂
Nothing against you guys personally, but at the level you were playing you're pretty much perfect for youngsters like him to get some minutes in. Could have said the same for any of other League One clubs back then lmao.
back then
Now most league one clubs would be a decent match
Harsh but true
Nowhere is safe
Ten Hag played 17 year old Mainoo in that position instead of Iqbal. Was his first start
Brother double booked the youngsters and had to send Iqbal packing
Didn't even offer a gift card smh.
and good decision tbf
Which is fine.
If you didnt tell Iqbal he was starting previously
And the poor family just had to sit through a regular united game
Just a horrible event all around.
oi, fuck you too.
To be fair, current United IS like that.
I used to watch United games because for the love for football, and your matches were exciting to watch, even as Liverpool fan!
But nowadays (past few seasons) I just don't find any reason to watch you, I rather watch Brighton and Newcastle or whatnot, even Spurs, they lose, but are exciting!
I'm sorry, but your this shit currently. Not only results, but overall drama and shit what is going on. It tires a regular football fan.
I love english humor. They way you cats jokingly insult each other is funny to me.
Thanks, but I haven’t lived there for the last 14 years lmao
Also a former Brit, left over 10 years ago, and gotta share this.
So In Australia, woke up to the 7 nil loss. Thought,.fuck that's enough internet for 1 day, and as I don't tell people at work I support United I was done, easy day.
Bloke comes round to do a regular scheduled fire alarm check, and although my accent has massively changed he clocked what was left of my old accent.
Asked if I watched the PL. I'd normally answer no and ignore it to save the chats with people who just wanna troll but it was that day. So, told him I was a United supporter.
He only goes and whips out his fucking phone with a Liverpool wallpaper. Like wtf? I thought I'd escaped the shame, but here was a bloke in my home, in Australia, doing something I legally had to complete, there to absolutely rip the piss out of me.
Absolutely epic bants, was nearly in tears from laughing.so much.
Missus came out of the home office afterwards to understand wtf had happened as we were laughing so loudly.
Still, of all days, half a world away, how the fuck did that happen? Good times.
That sounds amazing haha. It’s such a global sport you can never escape it.
I’ve been watching since I’ve had a proper memory of these guys, and in the rough years before Klopp, I didn’t even go around school saying I supported Liverpool cause everyone was supporting United or Barca or Madrid. So much nonsense about Skrtel vs a Ramos, or the slip.
I wish I’d been more mature then cause memories like these sound like a dream. All the bants I get these days are Liverpool being Madrid’s academy, while being funny, hit a bit too close
When you put it like that.. it's just plain cruel, yes.
has happened to me on a semi-pro level. Also cup game against the best team in our pyramid.
Promised spot day before in the after the training-session analysis, asked my family and friends to come - shocker of a change next day 1.5h before a match.. and in the game- I was about to be subbed 2nd half 60-65 minute, but a midfielder got injured, so they asked to change the nrs on the board on the latest possible second- I was already waiting on the line and sub was meant to be next stop - next stop came with injury.
Never played, and never got this big of a chance again, since I didn't thrive anymore after that late season cup game and decided to put focus on traditional work.
it did hurt me somewhat and I still carry that.
Didn't similar to thing happened to Zinchenko once (or not)
Suspect you may be thinking of Gabriel Jesus. He was told on day of game he wouldn't be playing and Pep used Zinchenko in his place
Yeah. that was crazy
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Yeah that's rough. Getting your hopes up and bringing family just to be left out last minute. Pretty disrespectful from the manager though, should've given him a heads up at least.
ETH still helping out Utrecht even when he isn’t managing them anymore.
How has he been?
Had a rocky start with injuries but had a very solid season this year. Ron Jans is in charge there and he's very good at the human side of the game.
Ron Jans is in charge there and he's very good at the human side of the game.
Just keep him away from the radio.
Solid tbh. Has a lot of natural risk in his play, but he was very high up in a lot of stats around good passing and passes forward. Got injured at the end of last season and it was pretty noticeable him missing from the team. The talent is certainly there.
ETH and co were like that, imagine he sold Amad during his reign like him. I still think about selling carreras to Benfica when we were thin at LB
He also started Dan Gore over Amad, literally last season when Amad was on an amazing form. His decisions with the squad, I’ll never understand man.
Also played Mazraoui as a 10 instead of Amad.
That was the moment I lost any semblance of hope I had in him
Same. I had backed him and this had me suspecting he was trying to get sacked.
and Omari Forson because he wanted to convince him to sign a new contract. at least forson got the assist for mainoos goal vs wolves
Forsen
I've settled on he was actively trying to get fired but accidentally bumblefucked himself into winning the FA Cup.
Interestingly SAF was like that as well, he just performed very well while doing it
Was he? Ferguson was famous for knowing the family members of his players. I don’t think he would have dropped a young academy kid without any communication, even if it was one of his staff telling him.
Yes Ferguson was ruthless, but it was more calculated than this, which seems just inconsiderate. He built teams full of great players who naturally would have big egos. Once he felt their ego/popularity was greater than what they brought to the team, he would fabricate a conflict and get rid of them.
More than anything, he fostered a culture where giving anything less than 100% was simply not acceptable and if you got egotistical enough to think otherwise you were gone (outside of a few notable exceptions who could simply do no wrong, like Cantona etc.).
Well cantona had the delivery to match the ego.
I really wonder how SAF and zlatan would’ve been together. I can see it working so well or failing spectacularly.
SAF is a man who wouldn’t let it fail spectacularly. He’d probably ship him away if something happened between the two of them, and we’d read about it 20 years later in someone’s memoirs.
I’d count that as a spectacular failure - player didn’t work out. But agreed he’d never let it get out of hand
SAF had assistants and squad leaders to do the hard work of communicating, ETH's team had zero leaders whatsoever
One of the reasons he was such a great manager. Man U went through some seasons with no depth or decent options in certain positions, sometimes multiple. and still won leagues
screenshot of utd squad playing against arsenal in the FA cup pls
I think that loss pissed me off more than the 8-2 loss.
yeah, i dont know what kind of pep talk he gave to the team, or Arsenal squad was just shitty, but afaik, rafael and fabio played, carrick at dc, and some other nonsense. ah fun times...
Rafael Fabio on the wings. Gibson and O'Shea midfield.
We played pretty much a full strength team and still got over run.
SAF absolutely had Wenger's number in the later years. And Rooney couldn't stop scoring against us.
SAF knew how to set up a team to play defensively better than most managers.
It's fun to clown on that lineup, but Rafael, Gibson, O'Shea and Fabio would run through a brick wall for United, and they just had to feed the ball to Rooney.
Sometimes winning a game is as simple as most players winning most of their duels.
In many ways the current version of the PL is a lot like Ferguson's approach to football. Win your direct matchups, and get the ball to the strikers.
Which year are you talking about, 2008?
Isn't it better not to remember
2011
screenshot of utd squad playing against arsenal in the FA cup pls
Yeah, if you’re going to be ruthless you’ve gotta be good. EtH was ruthless and rudderless.
To be fair, when he sold Alvaro he was told by the medical team that Malacia and Shaw would both be available not long after.
Unfortunately, the medical team fucked it and they were both unavailable for longer than expected
He was 100% power tripping over Ronaldo aswell, idc how many people try to defend his actions but he went about it like an asshole, and no one should’ve been surprised at Ronaldo’s response.
He was also proven correct about his criticisms of how the club was being run as a whole
I know this is ya point but y'all sold who will now be real Madrid's future left back.
Mental
Left back
Lol, my bad
At the time he was loaned to Granada and played less than 500 minutes in La Liga. I didn't hear anyone complain then but in hindsight every one is
We shouldn't have sold him, but only because we had no reliably fit options in that position. He never looked like a particularly good player at United, it's been a surprising and impressive resurgence from him.
He didn't really have any chances. Needed to be blooded properly, didn't get it. United have Amass who I think is an even better prospect so it's not the end of the world in terms of young players occupying squad roles, but 2 is generally better than 1.
I think selling was the right move.
We ended up loaning in Reguilon, then sending him back and playing Amrabat at left back, then sending Amrabat back. That's exactly the time you should be using a young player.
Who?
Just looked at the Charlton lineup that night.... A lots changed in 18 months. Only 2 players from our starting XI are still at the club in Maynard-Brewer and Miles Leaburn.
Didn't realise that game was Mainoos debut either.
Iqbal didn't play because Mainoo played instead
How times have changed, and for the better for once!
I look at that bench and it's horrendous 😭😭😭
This is his full quote on the season with ETH (from the original interview)
I came home [from the tour of Thailand and Australia] and thought I showed myself and I showed my level. I know I’d done well when my dad’s happy with me. I also came on in a game against Rayo Vallecano at Old Trafford and did well. Darren Fletcher messaged me to say I was going up to the first team dressing room and for the first few games of the season I was on the bench. I thought I would get a chance and unfortunately I didn’t, although I was on the bench 19 times during the season.
I just wanted 10 minutes off a bench to show myself and it really frustrated me that the gaffer didn’t seem to rate me enough to give me a chance to show if I could sink or swim. I spoke to my dad and agent and said: ‘I can’t do this for another year’. From the outside, it looked amazing to all my friends because I was training and travelling with United’s first team. For me, it was mentally tough because I was just training and not allowed to play with the under-23s. I thought to myself, ‘I’m just like a number’.
I was supposed to start a cup game against Charlton Athletic from League 1. I was in all the shapes and patterns in pre-match training. I was starting as a 10 and Lisandro Martinez came up to me and said: ‘Now’s your chance’. He talked to me and said, ‘all of us are supporting you. Just show yourself, you’re a good player. We’re going to fight for you, make sure you’re ready to fight'. It motivated me and it was nice from him, an aggressive leader in the team, a big player. I got tickets for family and friends to see me. Finally, my chance.
Then I got to the stadium, looked at the whiteboard and didn’t see my name. I was gutted. Then I thought I’d come off the bench. Nothing. That was the turning point for me. I didn’t feel the manager respected me enough to play me.
We had the Under-19 World Cup that April, so I went to the manager. Before that, I saw Tom Heaton, a senior player. I told Tom what I was going to say, that I was going to play against England and Uruguay and that it would be a good chance to show myself. Tom shook his head and said: ‘That’s awful. You’re making it about yourself. Make it about the gaffer’. Tom gave me a few points to say, like that I’ve trained under him for a year and wanted to show him how I’d developed.
The manager [Ten Hag] listened and then told me he didn’t want me to go to the tournament. He said it was the end of the season; we had injuries and needed training numbers, too. He told me to stay patient. So I did. I was sure I’d play some minutes and become the first Iraqi player in the Premier League. It didn’t happen, not even in the last games when there was little to play for. My best friend, Ali Al Hamadi of Ipswich became the first Iraqi player, so I’m happy it’s him. But I told my agent that I needed to move. I’d done everything that was asked and didn’t get a chance. I saw that Jadon Sancho had moved abroad from Man City, Paul Pogba from Man United. I was happy to try and take a similar route.
Ngl, reading the title I thought "well maybe this isn't that bad, maybe he's exaggerating" but damn, that last paragraph in particular makes me want to punch ten hag
Ten Hag viewed him like a trainer, not a player. What a shit manager for Man United.
I loved it.
Man fuck Ten Hag
People didn’t want to hear it at the time because of the general dislike of Cristiano and his even worse Pierce Morgan interview, but Ten Hag was a rubbish man-manager. Like way over his head.
was a rubbish man-manager.
Absolutely garbage one.
Absolutely garbage one.
Erik Ten Trash Hag
Some people say he has a trash can for a heart.
My biggest issue with him. The tactics were bad pretty often, but he didn't handle this side of the game well at all. Sancho saga was messy, even if the player was at fault significantly, and it never felt like he had the goodwill of the squad as a whole.
Didn't he give sanchi a whole 2 months off during a premiere league campaign for personal reasons ?
Yeah, but he was kinda blunt with the messaging that Sancho had a mental health issue, and Sancho apparently didn't like that. I think a better man manager probably has a relationship strong enough with their player to make them feel more comfortable.
Ten Hag wasn't a great communicator in general though tbf. Very blunt personality and wasn't charming, didn't speak English as well as some other foreign managers as well.
I get he has a blunt personality but giving sancho two months off during a campaign when we were trying to get top 4 is practically unheard of in the premiere league especially when we were short upfront after ronaldo left. And to hear sancho didn't like the reason is just incredible
It's entirely fair to be annoyed about your personal mental state being publicised to the whole world.
There's plenty to blame Ten Hag for but Sancho getting upset over something is not one of them. He's a known cunt that has had issues everywhere. He was given months off mid-season to take care of his mental wellbeing and returned with an even worse attitude to the manager/club. Ten Hag was very good to him.
I remember many of the manu persuasion folks being chuffed to bits when he pulled out the penalty run for the team and then ran with them. What a leader, they said, that's how you start, they followed
Ahh, I loved that wreck
Lol the mental gymnastics people would do to support ETH just cuz they hated Ronaldo on here was so funny
? Any player that did what Ronaldo did deserves to be ridiculed. Doesn't mean you're supporting Ten Hag
🚨🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo: "The chefs at the club are great people. I have a lot of respect for them, but when Luke Shaw walked into the dining room using the charity shield as a plate I knew there were some problems at the club. Big problems." [ @PiersUncensored ]
absolutely criminal behaviour
As cringe as they are i miss the "fat Shaw" memes lol
The most famous player in the world calling out the Glazers and fans decided to turn on him rather than capitalise on it. Lost opportunity.
This wasn’t a one-off with Ten Hag either. De Gea, Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho. Granted a couple of temperamental personalities on that list but he managed to beef them all.
Amen to that. I remember saying at the time that who cares about your personal opinion of Ronaldo, he’s the biggest name in football and he just called out the practices of our owners publicly. Now’s the time to get behind that message.
And the vast majority of our fans, despite them now pretending they weren’t, didn’t care about any of that and were just having a cry because he said he didn’t really like the manager who’s been here 5 minutes.
I genuinely lost hope that the Glazers would ever leave during this whole saga, because it became very apparent to me that most of our fans just say “Glazers out” because it’s the thing to do, not because they actually mean it.
The fans had long been against the Glazers, this wasn't some rallying cry. This was a player who'd acted like a complete bellend and was doing an interview that was a continuation of his bellend behaviour trying to get back onside with the fans.
The football equivalent of a WWE wrester complimenting the town the show happens to be in that week for a cheap cheer from the crowd.
Well you can criticize all you want but Ronaldo turned out right in everything he said, and the team has significantly regressed since that interview. I don't see anything wrong in calling out poor management especially when it's now more obvious than ever that he was right, you may not like the reasons he did it but we see today how poorly the club is managed.
He didn't do a tell-all with Piers Morgan for the betterment of the club
Everyone and their mothers knew how mismanaged the club was/is. Ever since SAF left everyone knew. But that does not mean that him doing that kind of interview was the right thing. You are free to do that sort of interview after you are gone, but not while you are contracted to the club. He threw everyone he was working with under the bus, those same people he talked badly about, he had to go the next morning and greet them and work with throughout the day. That just brought waay more toxicity into an already toxic enviroment.
I do suspect that the reason he did that interview is so he had his contract terminated, he wanted out. Which the club did granted and terminated his contract after the interview was released. But under no circustance is talking badly about the club that you are currently contracted a good thing.
I'm actually a lot more neutral on the interview nowadays, back then I thought in absolutes and Ronaldo needed to be binned asap.
But it's clear he had a point. Maybe he went about it the wrong way, but Ronaldo's a high achiever in a career of high achievers - you can't surround him with mediocrity and expect him to stay quiet.
And even after that embarrassing public call out by one of your highest profile players, what actually changed? United is in a worse position now than when Ronaldo left. Everyone ignored what he actually had to say because he went about it "the wrong way", but presumably no one was listening to him when he tried the right way.
Absolutely nobody's problem with him was with the truth of what he was saying. Everybody's problem with was how he was doing it, and how he was intentionally looking to cause trouble to get himself sacked so he could play CL football.
Not only was he right, but those against him were also proven wrong with their assertions/speculations. The club explicitly brought the anti-Ronaldo ST(what his detractors actually said Utd needed as ST) - allergic to scoring ST, who instead presses like crazy and tracks back like crazy and drops back often to try and participate in build-up(basically, a Tevez without the scoring). Nothing changed. The game and results didn't improve.
Not only that, but now the team is in crisis of goals, lol. Now they are literally trying to find someone, who can even bang in 15 goals a season, because they suffer from lack of scoring so much, that most points dropped last season weren't due to being literally outclassed - but simply not being able to score and being outscored. Many draws/losses were simply because Utd couldn't score, not because they were facing teams performing MUCH, MUCH better.
So, what has changed since Ronaldo is that the defense still sucks as much, but now you don't even score and drop even more points, because while Utd's defense still concedes, there's no one to make up for it in front.
Utd simply brought more problems to themselves by selling Ronaldo and not having anyone of his calibre of goal-scoring to replace what he brought to the team. It was surreal to read how his goals were a problem and that scoring as a ST/CF isn't enough. And that if you removed his goals, but added more pressing and dropping back, the team would go on to be much better, lol.
Yeah I supported the club when Ronaldo gave that interview, but now, I'm not so sure. United is significantly worse off now, and even the manager they backed ended up being a collosal failure, leaving the club with no identity on the pitch.
? Any manager that did what Ten Hag did deserves to be ridiculed. Ronaldo is not just 'any player' either
ETH might've been wack, but he handled the Ronaldo situation as well as possible. Ronaldo just couldn't handle the fact that he wasn't good enough to start anymore.
No players have scored more goals than Ronaldo since he left United (18 goals in the league)
In fact, you need to go all the way back to 12-13 season when Van Persie scored 26 goals in the league for United. He might not be the prime Ronaldo at that time but definitely not ‘not good enough’ to start for the club
No one is complaining about his first season, he was very good in that. He was terrible in his second, which was why he was benched. He threw a hissy fit because he wasn’t a starter anymore.
He was bad, so who in that shitty squad was good enough to bench him? He had lost a child, and had 2 bad months. If you’ve great forwards up front, by all means go ahead and bench him. Ronaldo can be playing with one leg and will still be better than the options they had then.
Yea 2 months of bad form suddenly he is ‘not good enough’
It is not like the team was playing great when he is sitting on the bench
You’re clearly a delusional fanboy. Starting him was like playing with 10 men during that stretch. Can a manager not bench such a player, because he and his legion of fans will feel hurt about it?
Agreed - United had just finished second, and since signing Ronaldo has gone downhill in league position.
You have look at the situation with more nuance than just "Ronaldo is scoring goals though". I think he scored in 10 or 11 premier league games that season, which is solid don't get me wrong, but the team went to shit, which to me doesn't just happen out of nothing. Accomodations had to be made which affected the rest of the team while prioritising Ronaldo, of course he's going to score goals but it came to the detriment of everyone else.
I'm not saying it's all Ronaldo's fault, because you can argue that good players should've been able to adapt and get Ronaldo even more goals, while also feeding off of him as well. But it didn't happen, and even if it did, you were aiming for really short-term success by committing to it, rather than just not bringing him back, and continuing what was (to an extent) working
christ he was awful at it, I remember arguing with someone about it due to the whole Sancho debacle and saying maybe it's not the best idea to publicly dig him out even if you have tried the softly softly approach already
So many Dutch managers have shit people skills and it's just hand waved away as typical Dutch bluntness.
Ten Hag is not your average guy, but very well liked. Can't speak to his time at United but at Ajax the players absolutely loved him.
Most fall outs except perhaps this one are not his fault but rather just players acting up.
This reminds me of FIFA career mode when 60 rated players asks for playing time.
In all seriousness though, it’s fucked up if the manager told him that he’s getting his debut and then changing it last minute. Even more so that he had to find out by looking at the whiteboard. That’s a surefire way to alienate and demotivate your youngsters
Yeah, manager makes the decisions so if he wants to change the lineup fine, but then tell the kid as soon as you've changed your mind, communicate. Things like this destroy trust and confidence. Surprising that a manager like ETH who'd won things with Ajax didn't think he needed to communicate with his players properly at united, where there were already problems within the club and squad
we've been through some absolute banter moments but nothing's going to beat the ETH era.
I mean the crazy thing is how many stories will see light in the upcoming years.
Obviously I wasn't a fly on the dressing room's wall...but I have a hunch this is just one of many accounts that you would classify as an eyebrow-raiser...
And still won 2 major trophies
Sidenote, Zidane Iqbal as a name goes hard as fuck
Gosh, imagine naming your son Zidane for him to grow up and actually be good at football.
Even Zidane's and CR7's own kids aren't great (pro level) at football.
If you see Indo's age group national teams you'll see that we have Buffon, Figo, Kaka, and Rivaldo (among others). Up the dads.
Ten Hag wasn't even at United that long but he managed to build quite a large rouge gallery of players that despise him lmao.
They need numbers in training too and many players were injured.
This is the origin story of a villain
No wonder Ten Hag lost the dressing room
Tough because you've already got tickets, you can't then get seats further away so you could maybe convince them you're Bruno Fernandes.
Mainoo started ahead of him. I feel for Iqbal that he was lied to, but Mainoo correctly jumped him in the pecking order.
Sure, but then don’t tell the kid he will start and let him get his hopes up at invite his family to watch his debut, just to take that away at the very last moment. If Mainoo jumped ahead of him, it would not have been within the day of the match, and even if that was the case, telling him face to face is the bare minimum you can expect of a manager
He should've got the arm around the shoulder to explain rather than seeing it for the first time on a whiteboard, but from this article and what he's saying, he was never explicitly told he was gunna start, he assumed it from training.
I agree. But unless I'm missing it, he doesn't say it was Erik who told him he was going to play.
Another episode of legendary man management by Erik Ten Bald
Man Utd thought they could just shake off "You promised me I'd play" like in FM.
I remember that pre-season, he looked proper decent and ready for the step up. However, seeing as he's not really done much since leaving, perhaps the coach saw he wasn't ready. Either way, this is terrible management from ETH.
He’s had injuries to be fair.
He was a key player for Utrecht this season who finished top 4 in the dutch league. Injuries continue to be a problem for him tho
Eric Ten Hag was a brand new cancer in an already dying united
Zidane IQbald is quite some name for a footballer.
Jumped before he was pushed. He wasn’t valued because hes not good enough for that level of club.. even against charlton.
Should have been treated better. United is toxic. Both are better off he left
If the coach treated Ronaldo like shit I can't how he treated the youth players
There’s still lots of Man U fans that defend this dogshit manager. Was terrible with young players, could not work with club legends and experienced players that actually kept his shitshow afloat. Prefered to bring in overpriced dogshit players
The signings really brought them back 5-6 years because they are stuck with so many players with little to no market value and insanr wages
Ten hag the baldie was so shit man…he had no respect for any player or anyone…created a shitty environment at club level
the real bald fraud
ETH sure is a piece of shit for doing that.
Key parts:
Zidane Iqbal left Man United on a permanent deal in June 2023 to try and develop his career elsewhere.
...joining Utrecht in June 2023 on a four-year deal.
He has since made 40 appearances, scoring one goal.
He left United because he wasn't good enough, almost implying as it was optional, as if he made the decision to leave and united begged him to stay....
Mainoo was given a chance because he was better
None of that is relevant to a player who was told he would start, and then embarrassed to find out literally on the pitch that he wouldn't be starting. I imagine the fam spent quite a lot on travel and miscellaneous to see him. Not even the shittiest player in the world deserves that.
The only good time he had with us is when he shithousery in our game in the adding minutes.
Ten Hag was just weird man.
Football managers make so many short-sighted and poor choices from a simple leadership and communication perspective that it’s hard to believe. Are they trying to make bad decisions on purpose or are they that inept?
He doesn't say that Ten Hag told him he would start he just thought he would start because he was in trainings.
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