soccer
Toni Kroos on Lamine Yamal: "I always say that a career is a marathon. We’ll see what happens in the next 5-10 seasons on how he reacts to everything that comes into football from outside. Success doesn’t only depend on the pitch, but also outide. You’ve to know how to manage many aspects of life"
Discussion
i mean, he’s not wrong. Yamal is an outrageous talent, but it can fizzle if certain things go wrong.
That's why the Messi comps are way premature, he and Ronaldo were insanely committed to playing football and adjusted their entire lifestyles to maximize their playing career and time at the top level, the chances Yamal who’s turning 18 this month plays until his late-30s as a Ballon d’Or level player are low
It’s exactly why Neymar didn’t keep up with those two career wise. He let other things get in the way of the game.
Djokovic also talked about how you become successful in tennis and he basically says that you have to give your entire self to the sport, often neglecting other aspects in your life to achieve a long and successful career.
Djokovic was so busy with tennis that he never knew covid happened. It’s that intense.
He wasn't particularly lucky regarding injuries, so I wouldn't say that was exactly his issue
I think some of the issues steam from not giving a shit about his body and partying all the time.
Getting two footed by defenders isn’t exactly a lifestyle choice unless you’re blaming him for being a flashy player
That happened to Ronaldo and Messi as well, getting kicked about in La Liga is a normal occurence against lower opposition
As a Barcelona fan I remember Neymar getting fouled way more than Messi, so I took a look at the stats during Neymar's time in Barcelona.
Neymar comes in at no. 1 with ≈ 435 fouls from 13/14 - 16/17.
Messi is 4th with ≈ 245
During that time Ronaldo didn't even break the top 10 but that might be because he transitioned into more of a forward than a winger at the time.
So yeah Messi and Ronaldo definitely get the shit kicked out of them but it's more than fair to say that Neymar gets it on another level.
Messi was helped by the fact he was very agile and quickly learned how to avoid tackles. I remember when he broke through and played Chelsea, he was getting absolutely clattered with every challenge. Years later, Messi was very adept at avoiding nasty challenges, which in turn caused fewer players to attempt them since it became known they're not so effective against him.
Neymar didn't have this ability, and was beaten mercilessly throughout most of his career. That back injury he got from a really nasty and red-card-worthy foul is what sealed the deal of him, because it made future injuries significantly more likely.
Ronaldo was a physical monster, few players could outmuscle him anyway, so even outside of his exemplary commitment to taking care of himself he was less liable to suffer as much from constant fouling.
I think that back injury Neymar got also scared him so badly he lost any chance of developing the mindset that drove Messi and Ronaldo. If I was a top 10 player in the world, and I had an injury almost paralyzed me I'd find it hard to get in a space mentally where I could focus 110% on the game. That sorta thing lingers in your mind and will forever alter your decision making.
Thanks for digging into the numbers here. Very interesting!
For Ronaldo, I would think the better comparison would be when at United (as you allude to). Though the champions league would need to be the comparison point since comparing across leagues isn't particularly helpful I would think.
The thing is, Ronaldo changed his whole game from tricky flashy winger to more of a poacher approach as he aged and started picking up injuries, which also shows insane talent, adaptability, and commitment
Neymar never figured out a way to play except the way he always played, and that resulted in him getting butchered all the time
Also, if you look at how Neymar and Hazard were constantly fouled by the opposing players and how their careers fizzled out once it came to a point where their bodies just gave up after a certain age due to constant fouls on them in their younger years.
also Neymar was always more lanky than both of them. that's just clearly his physical build, and together with his playstyle it was pretty much required.
that said, it's not just exercise that makes you fracture bones the way he did. he even played through an ankle/foot fracture when he initially arrived at psg, and that's just as likely to cause the further injuries as being lazy in training.
Not at the level that Neymar was getting abused
You really didnt watch Ronaldo and Messi on their primes a lot did you
Ronaldo got kicked to shit when he first went to La Liga. Don’t even need to mention what happened in the mid-late 2000s premiership, lol.
Neymar just gets more attention because of the theatrics.
Worth remembering Ronaldo had a pretty nasty injury as well.
It is also dumb luck to a part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OikGivULuI0
iirc this was a small injury for Messi. It was just dumb luck that Messi didnt miss like a full year cus of this assassination attempt.
He went out of 2 out of his 3 having sustained a bad injury due to butcher behavior, one of them being the spine break vs. Colombia. Nothing like that happened to Messi or CR7.
Getting two footed by defenders isn’t exactly a lifestyle choice
Tell that to Sunday league players.
I think both of these things are true. Neymar took a lot of hits from opposition players, and that shortened his (elite-level) career. True. He also didn't have the monastic commitment to the game of a Ronaldo or Modric, and that has also shortened his (elite-level) career. Previous poster is well within his rights to say 'some of the issues stem' from the latter.
Alcohol does this thing to our bodies that degrade and wear it faster. If he didn't drink or party and committed his body to fitness? It's a just a nice what-if scenario.
Sadly, injuries are misfortunes, and terrible one at that. Mj, Kareem, Lebron, KD, Cr7, Messi...the GOATS were lucky they never got career ending injuries but they all still dealt with injuries nonetheless. Long term body care is a controlled/organized chaos. Some variables cannot be controlled for.
Tbh he should have developed also more off ball skills to mitigate it like Ronaldo did. But as extreme as he did. Would have spared a lot imo
Problem is that after some point Neymar had more games missed through injuries than played, that surely stifles a player's ability to adapt and improve too.
Neymar has some of the best offball movement of the last 20 years. If you're referring to him being more of an in-the-box threat, you can't teach height/
Well although it can't prevent it completely, but having better lifestyle is definitely can minimize your injury. Neymar got fouled a lot with him doesn't give a shit about his body and partying all time is the the biggest reason why he can't keep up with Messi and CR7.
Look at Messi who are also one of the most fouled player. He can stay consistent because he keep his body and adjusting his lifestyle to stay at top level. On other hand, look at Hazard, he also most fouled player but he doesn't take care his body, look at him now.
I’m not saying it’s only to blame. I agree that injury was most likely out of his control completely.
Don’t forget playing Counter Strike late at night
Yeah but there's only so much you can blame your career for unlucky injuries, until you realise that maybe the injuries were the cause of you being neglect towards your life as a professional athelete. He might have been unlucky for sure but knowing Neymar it was also because of other things were more interesting. Both can be true.
No one in the last 40 years has “kept up with Messi/ronaldo” career wise.
Neymar was one of the few that had the talent to
Let’s also remember that everyone who are not part of the Messi/Ronaldo generation + maybe 5-10 years older never had the chance to actually have their insane longevity.
It’s no coincidence that we are seeing GOATs in all major sports playing at the highest level in their late 30’s nowadays. Messi/Ronaldo, Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, Lebron etc. Lesser players as well: Benzema winning the Ballon dor at the age of 34 is not because Benzema is some unicorn. It’s because of sports medicine and knowledge helps players extend their peaks for far longer than was previously possible.
So if Lamine dedicates himself to football and does not have any freak injuries he will absolutely play at an elite level into his thirties. 35 is the new 30.
A few of the players closest to them didn't have the insane dedication though. Neymar is an example, but I'd point to Ronaldinho, Hazard and Rooney too
Rooney had the dedication, just not the talent IMO. Like obviously he's talented, but if you are splitting hairs between "world class" and "one of the best 10 footballers ever" I think Rooney is less talented than Messi/Ronaldo
I just think Rooney had a different kind of talent. He didn't have the technique or creativity of Ronaldinho or Hazard but he had the game intelligence to match Messi's in my book, and until his drinking and bad habits caught up to him, he was also a physical beast
Rooney and Messi are the only guys that were as good as Yamal at this age. To say Rooney couldn’t have been as good as Messi or Ronaldo is crazy
Rooney was the better prospect than Ronaldo. Ronaldo wasn't even the best Portugal prospect.
If you think starting every season unfit and drinking and smoking are dedication. Then sure.
He did keep up with them. He just wasn't as good and injury prone as them. Ronaldo and Messi were barely injured in their careers.
The kid is already publicly hanging out with sex workers. I don’t think the odds are high that he has the same level of commitment as those two.
huh????
He’s been hanging out with a 30yo sex worker, publicly. So I doubt he’s going to be one to make the decisions required to play for years like Messi or Ronaldo.
He doesn't have the best example from his father either, with a gf half his age
it sounds dumb, but he’s too good at such a young age. male brains don’t fully develop until like 25. how could a 17 year old with his talent and fame not have it go to his head somewhat?
he needs guidance and hopefully the club can give him what he needs.
It’s evident that some of it has gone to his head. But who am I to check him? He’s already amongst the top 10 players itw. Who’s gonna tell him to be humble?
you just hope the club and his teammates are on the case.
That’s hustle hard’s job
We're screwed
He can be cocky like Ronaldo but not have his work ethic. While he could be humble but still party and not train that much. It seems we may have another Neymar here tbh
Haaland theme music plays
He’s already amongst the top 10 players itw.
Is he tho? Or is that just hype
Top 10 this season? Easily.
Top 10 is doing him a disservice. At worst top 5 and at best top 2
Could easily put 5 or 6 attackers ahead of him already and that's ignoring midfielders, defenders and goalkeepers who are harder to compare to attackers like that.
But sure if you say so.
You can “easily” name 6 attackers who had a better season? I’m picking Salah and Raphinha, but I’m running out of ideas already.
Mbappe and Lewandowski, Kane, Isak, Dembele.
You'd think Yamal is hitting 20 goals and 20 assists or something the way people speak. Not even double figure goals in the league...
Are you really putting Lewa up there like that?
Not even double figure goals in the league...
Oh, right, because I forgot that the league is the only tournament that counts? Lamine had 18 goals and 21 assists this season. So yeah, he basically did put up a 20-goal, 20-assist season.
Do you even watch Barca games? As someone that watched almost every single game last season, it’s absolute laughable to put lewy over Yamal. Football isn’t only about stats. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about if you put lewy above Lamine.
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Saying it went to his head doesn’t imply he’s lazy. CR7 was arrogant as well. No one will tell you he was lazy. Probably one of the hardest workers out there but still had a massive ego.
Rooney was a monster at 16 playing vs men in the early 2000's Premier League. Due to his style style of play,boozing and partying his legs were gone at around 27-28 years old. He dropped into midfield because he could not play the way he used to.
That 25 age for full development is just nonsense. It's already plateauing for him. Not much development left
Edit - I have mentioned the landmark study in a reply below and given a summary of the discussion. There is no cutoff age for prefrontal development. It's a parabolic curve. 25 is just a rough number. Even at 18 it's pretty close to being fully developed. Casey et al (2008).
i was referring to his adolescent brain, specifically the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for decision-making and impulse control. it continues to develop until around 25. so, it's not nonsense.
edit: sure, downvote me because you don't like science.
edit edit: see the reply below for a more nuanced scientific explanation.
I dunno who downvoted you, but I very much like science. In fact, I am a doctor and I am literally looking at Brain MRI images right now for reporting. What you're referring to is the hypotheses made through landmark studies, especially Casey et al (2008). If you were to refer to that, you'd see how they say that the prefrontal cortex follows a gradual parabolic curve, but the limbic system follows a parabolic curve which is steeper. Limbic system spurs the emotional and risky behaviour, and in teens, the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed enough to suppress the limbic system properly. But it doesn't mean that a 17 year old's prefrontal cortex isn't developed enough. It's pretty close to the maximum. Thereon the slope is very gradual compared to the years till 17.
fascinating! although i only have a general understanding of it.
it is actually kinda bullshit that just get regurgitated online all the time
It's absurd to compare anyone who hasn't had at least 10 years of top tier, game defining quality to those two. That's just the bar.
As a Barca fan I shuddered inside when I saw him parry with Neymar. Hopefully it was just a once and done event and we'll never hear of it again.
what I really hate is people keep saying Messi relies 100% on his pure talent and Ronaldo is his hard work. come on. they're both talented, hard working and severely committed to the game. the only bad thing that affects football I heard about Messi was that he used to eat a lot of some kind of fried meatball.
In that sense, he’s already nothing like Messi or Ronaldo.
Just think Ronaldinho
Insanely talented but washed at 29. Imagine his career with CR level discipline.
Players like Ronaldinho are an example of why what makes you great can be your downfall too. Someone like him, coming from the streets of the biggest footballing nation in the world, who played for the love and joyful expression of the game as much as anything else, was never going to be a sporting machine like Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Messi etc.
He would not play like Ronaldinho if he had CR discipline. Some players are like artists that need freedom and good vibes to perform.
You can keep some vibe in your game without arriving drunk in the boot of your brother's car at training.
How can you tell?
At his time it was widely regarded that at 30 you’re over the hill anyway tho lol only recently players are showing that they can have a high level into their mid 30s
Fati too. He came in hot and heavy. Fati was due to injury.
Arsenal fan in me- worried about Saka’s work rate
Yamal is closing on half of Saka's total club appearances while younger than Saka was when he became part of the first team. It's staggering.
I was more afraid of fati than yamal. Yamal still worried me, but something about fati just scared me, seemed like he would score no matter what.
i don't follow Arsenal closely, but i've seen quite a few worried about how often he plays.
Having a 30y old girl friend can (but mustn't ) also bring issues.
Let's call it what it is: predator behaviour.
Yeah, he should stop harassing those 30 year olds /s
Just look at Alexandre Pato and Dele Alli.
See Dele
Thank God he went to consult Neymar on how to have a long and fruitful career
I saw the video exiting a Walmart and saw a guy drop to his knees at the parking lot
I saw the video on the phone of some guy exiting a Walmart, while some other dude dropped to his knees
Crazy how small the world is
Dropped to my knees at the 98°F parking lot of Walmart when I saw the video.
Honnestly Yamal has huge talent and potential to screw everything because of "that come from the outside" ....
A very humanistic approach. Lamine is also just a person and is experiencing all of this first hand. Maintaining sporting performance is one thing, but you also have to keep your mental health through all of it.
Yamal’s greatest challenge will be maintaining possession while facing down fame. The football part is child’s play for him.
Add staying injury free with today’s schedule on the team + nationals
Kroos is a notorious hater but I see nothing wrong with what he’s saying
Many stars in the making faded as they didn’t take good care of themselves and away from distractions outside the field which is what makes the feats CR7 and Messi achieved be so enormous
Hope Yamal wises up as he’s a joy to watch
Yeah he’s right in what he’s said but its a backhanded compliment lol, cant blame him
He's German, this is pretty standard for their compliments 😂 like you said though he's spot on
Amazing how you can recognize that with a Madrid flair, and the other redditors have their heads in the sand.
It's such a Kroos thing to do and say and like his passes, he never misses. So people that would say otherwise are simply glass fans that don't know hin like the real fans do.
Always a problem when you have high profile signings like Mbappe and Bellingham, it brings some fans in that aren't really fans of the club, but moreso of the player.
It's how Kroos has always been, no filter. Honestly I love it. No PR styled answer, straight to the point.
I suppose , we are used to him , he would go and criticize Madrid players or immigration in Germany and so on.
So true. It is far more likely he fizzles out and never even wins a Ballon Dor than he reaches Messi levels.
It can also end in the middle, a Dembelé like career (before this season where he's a favorite to win the ballon d'or)
Dembele is still 28
If he can stay fit and repeat this seasons for another 2-3 seasons then he would save his legacy
2-3 More Great Club Seasons and he has to deliver for his National Team at least once in the Euros or World Cup.
I mean i agree with that but it will likely be somewhere in between.
Def somewhere in between IMO. I think he's likely to hit the levels of other past "greats" that we saw pre Messi. But having such a high peak and consistency for such a long period of time isn't likely to happen again for a very long time. Too many things need to align.
I really hope not
I’m not a Barca fan but watching Yamal brings back the joy of football we’ve seen with Joga Bonito, Messi and Neymar
The wild non robotic side of football we’ve been seeing less and less of
Same not a Barca fan but man isn't he exciting to watch.
Which player that was top 5 Ballon d'Or young fizzled out ?
Yamal is not some kid with potential, he's already at least top 3 winger itw. The only thing that could stop him are devastating injuries.
Well we’re also at an interesting time in recent history because of the ageing out of Messi and Ronaldo. For the last almost 20 years those two were basically guaranteed 2 of the spots so there was less up for grabs, and they really only report top 3, and 2 of the 3 were always them. Neymar got top 3 at age 22 (I know older than Yamal) and top 10 at 19 not even playing in Europe, and he certainly didn’t come close to reaching Messi levels. I'm not saying he fizzles out - I don't think that's likely at all. I just think it's more likley than him hitting Messi levels.
I've been saying this exact same thing for a while: He's an outstanding talent but I don't see him having a long career at the top level because of the people around him and the distractions.
100%, look at the likes of Ravel Morrison, Pato and the like, talent isn’t enough on its own
Very true. Many players that breakout earlier in their careers also peak much earlier
He wasn’t a physical freak when he broke in though. It’s his intelligence that’s on another level. Some players can see it unfold quicker than others.
For some reason, I equate “peak” to something post physical maturity. He’s got a ways to go
Not OC but still think it is valid, playing football at the highest level takes it’s toll on the body which only the ultimate professionals (and with the most gifted genetics) overcome. Only Del Piero that i can remember have gone through significant injuries and managed to completely adapt.
Yamal might just be the biggest talent most of us have witnessed at that age, but how many great players haven’t fallen through?
Yamal needs to tone down the degeneracy a little bit
Shhhhhh let him live his life! YOLO Lamine!
Don’t check the flair
Yamal have two paths : - There is Neymar and Ronaldinho , incredible talent and probably the two most talented ballers. Achieved a lot of things that only 00.01% of players wish they did. We all expect them to have a “way better career” but ended up like they did because outside the pitch and the people around them were not the best. They are probably one of the biggest “what ifs” in the history of the sport. What if Ronaldinho took seriously his career? Would he become better than Messi? What if Neymar also did the same? Would he actually achieved the same heights of CR7 and Messi? - Then there is Messi and CR7 , the two players that blow out everyone’s expectations , have two over the top careers , are still playing football , they both are still achieving silverware , and more importantly they already immortalized themselves in the history of this sport. Messi is consider as the GOAT for many , CR7 the best goal scorer of all time and he is up there with Messi. What help them a lot is that outside the pitch they did not have much big controversies and where always professionals during the season. It also help them a lot that they got each other to improve and compete (Both of them fell for the classic Spanish taxes lmao) - Yamal was spawn on literally Messi’s position and also being left foot. However his playstyle is literally Neymar’s on the way how he dribbles. Yamal himself mentioned that for him Messi will never be surpassed so he never compare himself to him and will be happy to just achieved half of Messi’s career.
It’s not even guaranteed if he does everything right he will hit Messi/ronaldo sustained levels of greatness. Too much luck and unknowns involved.
Also Ronaldinho 100% took his career seriously until probably 2006 champions league /World Cup. Same with Neymar until PSG move. And even then there were spurts he cared until CL final loss.
Tbf Neymar always cared, and was professional on the pitch and on the training ground, just not in his personal life. Dinho was showing up half-drunk to training sessions and didn't take his career seriously at PSG.
Neymar would cut off his foot off for the NT if asked, even today.
“I remember when I arrived, Ronaldo and [Paolo] Maldini were there at my side, and opposite was Kaka, Ronaldo came over and asked how I was, and then he told me ‘You have to decide, come with me (and he showed me a Playboy) or go in Kaka’s group (who in the dressing room had some church things)’.
–– Pato
His support system is going to be the most important thing. His dad seems very immature.
He's not wrong since he already wanted to bang a pornstar that's like 12 years older. Fame and money at 17 can be problematic.
Also playing a billion games before you're 18 can't be good for longevity.
It happens. Shoutout Ben Arfa and Jermaine Pennant.
I know Kross can be controversial sometimes but this is just logical? I don’t see how people think he’s hating with this statement
Adriano finished in the top 10 of the Ballon d'Or rankings in both 2004 and 2005. Sadly he turned to booze after his dad died and his career fell off a cliff before he'd reached 25.
Even the legendary Ronaldinho saw his career start to go on a downward trajectory around 27 because of his lifestyle.
Yamal grew up in an impoverished area. That could motivate him but could also potentially lead to problems.
Why is everyone asking Kroos' opinion about pretty much everything these days?
He has his podcast, noone needs to be asking he'll give his opinion anyway lol, that's what podcasts are for
Didn't know that, there you go
He hosts a podcast with his brother. Alot of recent comments from him are from there I believe. Not sure this is from that though.
Bro basically said “we’ll see”. How is this news
Hope Yamal can connect with KD. Hoping Yamal just grows to love ballin at his level best and tune out thr outside world.
Getting this famous at his age must be dizzying at times.
Sure, but a counter-argument is R9, who was so out-of-this-world for a few seasons before the horror injuries, and a few more afterwards (although not at the same level, but enough to win the WC and one more balon d'or), that it was enough to be remembered even today as one of the greatest of all time.
Very wise words. Still young . But wow would love seeing him hit his full potential. To much pressure nowadays for the next Messi or Ronaldo
Toni is absolutely right. Yamal is an INCREDIBLE talent and he’s shown that. But he has to maintaint that, and show he can do it in the long run to be considered one of the greats.
There have been many talented players who in the end didnt do as much because of the things Toni is mentioning here. KPB is the first to come to mind
Wise words from a legend! Yamal got talent and needs to know how to manage that!
Greatest challenge will be batting away dem hoes
Kroos only speaks facts
E.g., Ronaldo & Quaresma
It's going to rely a lot on who is managing his career off the field and on it. He's 17 years old and has had one heck of a highlight season, but Kroos is right. It has yet to be seen whether or not he can maintain that level as he matures and if he does, can he age gracefully?
The picture with Neymar in Brazil probably didn't instill a lot of confidence for his fans though. I don't really recall Mbappe having this issue with concerns about his hype and how he would mature. I think mostly because he was well coached, trained and managed by his parents. Does Yamal have the same sort of situation?
Agree. The kiddo is too arrogant .
I love Kross. Dude is blunt, but fair. Nothing he says here is wrong. Blunt maybe, wrong no
Sorry Toni, the correct answer was bellowing "Ballon Dor Ballon Dor Ballon Dor!!" every time Yamal carries the ball half a metre. But I guess that's why Rio Ferdinand is a pundit, and you're not.
Tbf, not wrong
He's a great talent. Am a little skeptical based off his off the pitch lifestyle. Time will tell
Is all this coming out from one interview with him? I need to see it if so.
Youve
Neymar reading this after having fun with Jamal
A massive price tag and Messi comparisons can really fuck up any young talent. So far he seems to be holding up well.
The retirement Toni tour is in full swing, and I am down for it.
Kid is already gooning
I mean, true. I see Yamal as a very mature guy for his age though to be fair, much more mature than people even older than him. Anything is possible, but I think he will be okay.
Lamine will be lucky to have as good of a career as Di Maria
I would trust the word of Kroos. Man has basically dealt with every kind of athletic pressure there is in club and international football. Yamal already is an amazing player as long his family and support units keep him level, he will continue to grow and cement a legacy for himself.
Why is Toni talking so much
I mean the way he acts outside the pitch, it’s so Brazilian..if you know what i mean. So yeah he makes sense
He's already had a better career than 99.9% of professional footballers before he turned 18
Let’s say he wins the World Cup and gets the Ballon Dor next year (which is not too far fetched). Why would he continue working hard? It’s a kind of motivation that 99.99999% of people simply don’t have.
From what I have experienced, people at the very top level of anything are very different, they have that drive which I wish I could have even 1% of\ Messi had 4 Ballon D'or s by 25 still be fought
To break Messi’s goal record/become the Barca goat I guess, he’d also still be missing a CL and sextuple
Kroos vs Tebas
Who will get more random quotes this off season?
Kroos usually says things that make sense, if a little blunt. Tebas is a donkey.
Damn Toni, hating much?
yamal career is barely starting. he still has to have good seasons after this and look at neymar everyone thought neymar was going take over. kroos was just relax he has a whole career left.
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