thewalkingdead
Satellite Station. Who’s the Bad Guy?
I’m doing a rewatch, and just finished the episode where they kill the saviors in their sleep. I think this is a pivotal “what if” moment.
Alexandria needed supplies, so they made the deal with Hilltop. I do believe that the Saviors would have eventually made it to Alexandria and make the same “arrangement” as Hilltop and Kingdom.
But do you think it was worth it?
The satellite slaughter is what kicked off the Saviors war. Without knowing the details of the situation, Alexandria came out of nowhere and murdered an entire building of people with no known cause. (The Polaroids of smashed heads, definitely makes it easy to not care about the Saviors). But if they had never gone, Abraham, Glenn, Sasha, and everyone who died during the war might still be alive. Or do you think the losses would have been greater if they had done nothing?
What is your stance on a preemptive strike?
Discussion
the bad guys are the people sleeping next to photos of people's heads bashed in with a bat
Which group enslaved people again?
I will never understand why people think Rick's group is the bad guy in this situation.
And no - it's not because Rick is the protagonist. Objectively, Rick was in the right. They only thing that was "wrong" is that they didn't do enough recon. Had they learned about the Kingdom from Jesus and knew that this was just an outpost, they could have organized better.
The fact is that the Saviors were plunderers, colonists, and sadists. I would have somewhat a more sympathetic look towards them if they didn't sleep under a collage of Lucille victims.
Ultimately, given the info at the time, this was the right call to make. This outpost was threatening Hilltop. The Saviors would have eventually found Alexandria and subjugated them to the same treatment of torturing someone to death in front of them, taking half of their supplies, and demand weekly tribute or else another person would be murdered.
This is how I feel too. It was the right move, but it was rushed
It was a hostage situation, which meant they had to act fast, with what info they had.
No it wasn't. It was a contract killing.
Not just enough recon he also didn't verify their story. Imagine if he met a friendly Savior first and they told Rick that Jesus and his group were the problem and they just rolled in and merced everyone in their sleep in exchange for food.
That’s not what happened. Negans men ambushed Daryl on the road. Rick saw with his own damn eyes Gregory getting stabbed by a man who literally said out loud it was because of Negan. Y’all act like this shit didn’t happen and it’s wild
Like Mandela Effect people, they think if they just wish for something hard enough they can vibe their own reality
I think its easy to shift blame to Ricks group that he didnt do enough recon before . What if they were like Oceanside , and rather peaceful ?
Here's the thing though - Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham were attacked TWICE by the Saviors. The second time, the Saviors almost succeeded in killing one of them - Glenn style - and being forced to show them Alexandria. They were attacked first, and so when they heard about Negan and the Saviors from Hilltop, they stepped up and realized it was a threat.
Then they wouldn’t have held a hostage and told them to bring Gregory’s severed head to get their friend back.
Rick’s group had more than enough intel to go in and kill every single person there.
The Saviors were no different than any powerful state or kingdom today or in the past that plundered and colonized. Rick and company screwed up communities or whatever wherever they went and often had selfish motives.
One of Rick's motivations in both the comics and show was to make a new, better world. Not to remake the old, shitty world. The apocalypse gave them that one gift.
Also - Rick and his group more often than not saved people. If Rick hadn't shown up to the Atlanta Camp, they would've lost Glenn's supply runner team and then the camp would've eventually been overrun. If Rick and his group didn't show up to the farm, Hershel's entire family would've been overrun by either the barn (like in the comics) or when the swamps that surrounded the farm hardened in the winter. Rick and his group also put a stop to evil communities like Woodbury, Terminus, Claimers, Grady Memorial, Wolves, Saviors, etc. If Rick and his group hadn't shown up to Alexandria - it would have either gotten overrun by the herd from the quarry or attacked by the Wolves/Saviors. And if Rick and his group wouldn't have come to Hilltop and Kingdom - they would continue to serve the Saviors until they either thought they could fight back and lose, or be viewed as worthless and massacred. If Rick's group hadn't shown up to the Commonwealth - the class divide would've continued on, and Pamela's use of herds to force lockdown would've backfired and caused the entire city to be overrun.
So sure, Rick shakes some things up when he first arrives. But at the end of the day, there are survivors that walk away from it as opposed to none at all.
The group that would kill a random person to make a point when stealing supplies from groups of people who are just trying to survive. I would have helped rick and crew smoke those guys because they are horrid people that do horrid things.
Not even gonna read the text just gonna state the facts
The saviours attacked Daryl Abe and Sasha on their way home in a completely unprovoked attack, during which they made it clear they intended to kill 2/3 of them and have the last one bring them back to Alexandria to rob the place systematically.
A few months later the Alexandrians come into contact with a peaceful community of farmers, who claim they’re being extorted by these “saviours” that checks out. They also inform the Alexandrians that the saviours beat a 16 year old to death just as a warning.
So now in an act of pure self defense for themselves and others the Alexandrians waged war against those savages for completely justified reasons.
Idk, probably the child murdering, pedophilic, raping murdering and enslaving saviours. Rick just struck first, that doesn’t make him bad.
You’re also forgetting that Rick’s group encountered Saviours NUMEROUS times before attacking them.
It was 1 time, and it sounds like you're only describing Simom and Rapy Davy. They dont represent the majority.
Also it wasn’t one time. There were the bikers that stopped Abraham and co in the road, Dwight met Daryl in the woods and robbed him, and by extension, Daryl also met more saviours in the woods that day when they came after Dwight.
All of the Saviors that they met in that group were after Dwight, Sherry, and Tina, not Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham. They just got caught in the crossfire because the Saviors thought that they were Dwight and Co. (When they were in the car) and Dwight thought that Daryl was with the Saviors.
So, sure, they met them three times over the course of one day in the same general area (way before the outpost attack), but only one of them was a purposefully trap with intent to harm them and take their stuff.
They literally tried to rob and murder Sasha, Daryl and Abraham. Those were still saviour encounters, and it gave the group enough info to know that the saviours were shitty people.
Negan is a rapist, he forces women to have sex with him. In the comics they don’t even try to hide this, he literally threatens Rick by saying he’d let his men rape Carl.
The issue was that the saviours were a threat to them too so they got two birds with one stone but they really underestimated them
Exactly.
It doesn't matter if the Saviors had some good guys (Alden, Laura, etc.) - the Saviors as a whole were extortionists that would have found Alexandria eventually. They just bungled the first shot by going after an outpost instead of what they did in 8A.
They shoulda put Negan down like a rabid dog
It was arguably "zero cost", they would have likely paid with 2 lives (given their resistance) at any point they encountered the Saviors.
Negan's "system" was not effective here, Rick's group did not break and they were a definite threat. note- it almost worked, Rick and Co. were almost broken. Negan's S11 retrospective that he should have wiped them out to save his people was not wrong.
That said, The Savior's would have collapsed. They were highly reliant on fuel and scavenging with a very large population. Without major changes, before fuel degraded, they were not sustainable. The collapse that came later, after their initial defeat, was arguably staved off by so many of them dying.
Negan. The saviors. The end.
They already tried to kill Sasha Abraham and Daryl* and were told they killed a kid at hilltop. Rick’s group was justified in attacking and are definitely not the villains in this situation
The Saviours attacked Rick’s group first. (Daryl, Abraham and Sasha)
The Saviours have murdered and are actively stealing from the Hilltop people, who are good people.
The Saviours have murdered, stolen from, or enslaved countless survivors.
Do you really need to ask this question?
"Rick and his people killed my people at the satellite outpost, they're just as bad as me!" - man who gleefully bashes peoples heads in with a barbed wire baseball bat
they attacked sascha abe and daryl on the road, they enslaved people. extorted communities after murdering an innocent, every time, they got what they deserved
If the hilltop told ricks group that the saviours were a nice community that also traded resources with them and wasn't at all sinister then I doubt rick would think to attack the satellite outpost. Jesus literally told them that they killed a kid and demanded resources by force.
Doesn't matter, war is hell and we're all demons when we participate in it.
Saviors. I thought we were over this
This is such a great question with a not so simple answer. On one hand, the Saviors were always going to come for Alexandria eventually. They were already terrorizing Hilltop and the Kingdom, taking half their stuff and killing people for fun (those Polaroids of smashed heads weren’t exactly a good look). If Rick’s group hadn’t struck first, the Saviors would’ve rolled up to Alexandria one day and either enslaved them or wiped them out, just like they did to Oceanside.
But on the other hand, attacking them did kick off a brutal war. Glenn, Abraham, and others died because of it. Maybe if they’d waited, they could’ve avoided a fight, or at least bought time to prepare better. But with Negan in charge, would talking have even worked? Dude wasn’t exactly reasonable.
At the end of the day, it was a lose-lose situation. If they didn’t act, the Saviors would’ve destroyed them. If they did act, people were gonna die either way. Rick’s group chose the lesser evil, but it still cost them. That’s what makes it such a tough call, and why I personally think it’s one of the best moments in the show.
It wasn't a simple preemptive strike, because the Saviors attacked Daryl, Abe and Sasha previously. Because of the threat they posed, it was necessary to reduce their numbers.
It gave them confidence in themselves that they could do stuff as a group. Last big encounter was at the Prison or Terminus (where it arguably got bad for the group)
This time, they did it right. Too bad they had no idea this was just an outpost and got punished for it.
This argument is stupid. Why do we pretend like only part of the story exists? Every one of the people under Negan at this location is on some sort of collection team that assists in enslaving other settlements. Did we forget how many encounters we've seen that shed light to the fact that their guilt over their prison guard roles doesn't really exist? They don't exactly put off the vibe that their asshole behavior is carried out all that begrudgingly.
Under this new world, if there was a group that was willing to liberate my settlement from another group who forced us to act in a certain way or die, I'd go for that 10/10. Rick and co were armed with this information and acted accordingly. I'm sorry a few of the satellite had families before they decided to take the path of slavemaster assistant.
Obviously, the saviors. The group already knew about their actions and attacked Darryl and co.
The only reason this is even debated is bc they attacked while they were sleeping, which made them look like sneaky bad guys.
From memory, it was kind of an ESH situation. It's good the Saviours at the Satellite Station were taken out, but it wasn't at all clear that Rick particularly cared who he was killing: he had little reason to trust Gregory, nor did it seem like that was much of a factor in him agreeing to do it.
The saviours will always be the bad guys. It’s not a debate, if the saviours left other groups alone this would have never happened.
Just because the saviors were killed in a brutal way doesn't necessarily make Rick's group the bad guy. It just like Negan's "they had family too" argument. These people were absolutely the bad guys who nearly killed Daryls group and kept Hilltop enslaved. From Rick's perspective, this was another governor. A power-hungry group who took advantage of other communities and killed anyone they wanted.
The group that held a hostage and would only release them, if the other killed their leader and brought the severed head to them.
To think Rick’s group was the bad guy in this scenario requires ignoring large chunks of the show.
Why do people even think Ricks group were villains here? Saviors enslaved Hilltop FIRST, and many other countless communities. What Rick and his people did were justified.
To add to my initial post, I don’t really have a full formed opinion one way or the other. I can see it from all sides, but obviously if you follow the narrative, we’re rooting for Alexandria. I just think it’s an interesting discussion topic. The basic concept of preemptive attacks
Is this the same compound that Captain America and Falcon broke into in Brave New World?
Stupid little prick named Rick who thought he knew sh*t but didn't know sh*t and got everyone he cared about killed. He's the bad here...
Ok let’s move slavery and all that crap aside. In this world u fight for your survival ricks group and negans group / litteraly anyone in a apocalypse universe no such thing as good guys and bad guys
The bad guys were carol and Maggie for getting caught tbh (kinda joking)
It wouldve just been a matter of time until the Saviors found Alexandria…and who knows who’d have been lost on that eventuality since the saviors typically down at least one individual when meeting. If anything, They should’ve done more research and recon as to how the Saviors operated. They’d have known then that it was just a small offshoot and not the totality of it.
Hard to say honestly. Any path they chose would’ve involved either violence or partial subjugation (even if it was less than the Kingdom had to endure at the start.)
It is important to remember that through the costs and hardships they formed the alliance that won and were able to come together. They may have never met oceanside (or the “records” woman with the tech tips) or others if not…the bridge and all the events later wouldnt have happened. There couldve been a much different chain of circumstances that led to more deaths or struggle.
The Saviors already tried to enslave them way before this, they were trying to come for them before they came back and deal with them once and for all but they should have did more recon, Rick and Co were getting too cocky
Only thing they did wrong is not scout it out better or grab one of them while they where out to gain better Intel on what they were getting into
I don’t think Rick was the bad guy in that situation but Negan revenge was warranted. Negan just put on the big show and that made it bad. Eye for an Eye.
This. The first time I watched, I remember being sad and disgusted with Negan. The second time I’m like.. what could you have possibly expected? But still think Rick was right to plan on making the first move. They just didn’t have nearly enough information.
Idk but something tells me that the people who sleep with pictures of beaten victims over them don’t have much of a case to prove they are the “good guys”
Idk if Rick and them are the bad guys, but they definitely didn't do enough reconnaissance in order to better understand the Saviors before attacking the outpost.
"Why watch the show if you're not going to pay attention?"
-Red Forman
The saviors.
They knew they were dangerous murderers and made the right move
But killing like 60 saviors and negan only killed 1 guy (Daryl fcked up) to show them who's in charge was really dumb writing and the saviors felt like respawning npcs
The shithead fucking asshole leader of the hilltop.
And Megan
If the Satellite crew was a lone group then no one would be questioning what Rick and company did to them. They were a bunch of murdering extortionist that were shaking Hilltop down.
Nobody is innocent in war ( or the apocalypse ) bad as the saviors were you also gotta consider how many brothers fathers mothers sons and daughters ricks group killed
Yeah, the Satellite Station and Slaughterhouse killing sprees were 100% justified and were the right moves at the time. Tbh, I can't stand Season 6b-8. The absolute garbage writing, sheer stupidity of EVERY character, and how annoying some fans are about sticking up for those Seasons. Rick AND Negan were the biggest dumb fucks in those Seasons, and if I had an army, I could wipe them both out, and I don't even have experience. THAT is how stupid the decisions they made were.
Why keep turning the RV around and avoiding Simon and his small group? They're obviously trying to direct you into a trap. Blow their fucking heads off and carry on. Also, why tf are they running around in the pitch blackness? Who does that? Also, Negan and his little bitches could have easily been taken out when they came to Alexandria the first time. Don't let him take all the medicine. You're FUCKED then. Id have killed every Savior there before giving that up. And Negan is a dumb bastard for even putting himself in that position to begin with.
Y'know what, I gotta stop. The anger I felt while watching those Seasons is returning, and that's something I don't want to feel again. Season 9 saved this show BIG TIME! They just made Rick WAY too stupid in those Seasons. Also, the kill 1000 people to spare the worst among them for reasons of "Mah Mercy prevails over mah wrath" is the stupidest thing I've ever fucking heard.
They would have died in any engagement with Simon's roadblock
He had like, 5-6 people with him at max. The fuck he gonna do?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, were the Polaroids not something Negan would give to his people to remind them of the consequences of not falling in line? I seem to remember someone getting a polaroid of one of their murdered friends.
I think it was wrong to kill everyone in the outpost, some people were with Negan because they had no other options, as with the whisperers later on.
I do believe Rick's decision to kill everyone in the satellite station was wrong, but they lacked so much information.
Yes it was because they took out what appeared to be a Massive Outpost with 0 casualities and until and The lineup they kept killing saviours with only Denise as the only death
The group who put pictures of dead bodies beaten to death with a baseball bat on their walls next to their beds.
Which was probably a Negan or Simon idea.
Rick and Co pulled the first blood, but it was on definetly bad people.
So regarding the polaroids, its shown later that they will put them above Saviors who are being rebellious as reminders. So it may be that the guy with those polaroids was actually a rebellious Savior (a good guy) likely not with the Saviors by choice. So ironically, the guy they murdered may have been a victim much like they became.
Interesting. It’s been a really long time since I’ve watched, so I don’t remember that part.
I believe one of them puts a polaroid over Daryl's cell when Daryl is being rebellious as an attempt to break him.
But Daryl wasn't a rebellious Savior. He was a rebellious PRISONER who witnessed Negan bashing his friend's heads in first-hand, so putting up the polaroid of GLENN'S corpse (who Daryl was convinced he got killed) was a punishment for HIM/attempt to break him
This doesn't indicate that they use those polaroids as means of punishment for Saviors
Or does anyone in the show say otherwise? It's been a while since I watched those seasons, so I might have forgotten them specifically mentioning that
Prisoner, savior, hardly a difference half the time. That's literally what's being done to Daryl. So the implication is that guy may have been there against his will in some effect as well, with the polaroids serving as a reminder to him, but we'll never know.
It seems more likely that he was being punished than that he was some sort of smashed head fetishist.
Or does anyone in the show say otherwise?
I mean... does everything really need to be spelled out for us like we are in 1st grade?
Hogwash. I just watched the episode last night that shows Negan telling Eugene how lucky he is to be part of the A-team. People had to prove their cruelty and brutality to be part of Negan's armed forces.
I mean that's just nonsense. The satellite station wasn't the A-team. The saviors had brutal leaders but they used those tactics to get regular people to fall in line and work and fight for them. They are also completely willing to try to bully / torture / psychologically break anti-Savior men into fighting for them, such as Dwight.
All signs point towards polaroid guy being yet another victim of the saviors bullied into working for them, sorry to break it to you. The polaroids are probably people he knew that the saviors killed and they are up there as a reminder to him to do what they say.
The A team and the armed forces are two entirely different entities. Furthermore, you really belive Negan would arm people he didn't fully trust to get the job done? The people you are suggesting are the people that end up on fence detail.
I am absolutely positive Negan would arm people he didn't fully trust because Negan doesn't fully trust anyone, and like I said, he arms Dwight who had tried to escape earlier.
And it's an outpost, likely with it's own commander.
I really don't understand why you are thinking the way you're thinking. We see many times that the Saviors bully people who don't want anything to do with them to working for them or fighting for them, even people who want Negan dead, and they use psychological torture, actual torture, and fear to do that. How is this even up for debate? That's like the Saviors' whole schtick.
" ..fully trust to get the job done"
You are showing no signs of real comprehension. I am done with this interaction.
Well you're just saying a bunch of nonsense for no reason, with no basis in the show at all. It's like you started with a wrong conclusion and now are trying to justify it. You have no examples, nothing, it's just blanket wrong statements from you. Useless.
I got downvoted for bringing this up before. It's a real possibility that this is what happened, but we'll never really know. No one can say for certain that everyone who was stationed there was an evil extortionist and killer who deserved to die. Some of them were shown to be monsters like the guys at the gate, but that doesn't mean that all of them were like that
Yeah I think it's so interesting as a subtle hint that Glenn may have murdered someone who was not evil and the dangers of doing violence off of assumptions. I like that it's not spelled out for us so we may never know, just like Glenn never truly knew if the person he was murdering was good or evil.
Rick is the bad guy in this one
Are you rage baiting?
100%, they killed like 30ish people, 2 of the crew got got. Granted WE loved them, but all in all, we were not the good guys in this situation. As far as preemptive strike, I think the only way Rick + the group wins is the way it plays out. They need all the communities united to defeat the Saviors n that just doesn’t happen w/o the group being under the Saviors’ boot first.
Yeah only bad things the saviors really did was take food and suppplys from other communities to live
You forget the story of the Saviors killing a 16 year old at Hilltop or killing all the boys in Oceanside? Let's also not forget Negan's harem.
If they weren’t such absolute (ongoing) di€ks about it, it mighta been sustainable. I think Rome was essentially made as grand as it was through conquest, then taxing the $hit outta those provinces. Given how great Rome was (at its height) that mighta even been Negan’s ultimate model, as his stated intent was to “save the world”.
Yup. This was guerrilla Rick
Depends on which side of the fence you’re standing on. Everyone is just trying to survive in a way that started working for them at that time. Even Negan was once a man hiding in a house with no army. There are no “bad guys” just circumstances changing
Except the saviors SOP is to immediately kill someone to show they mean business. That someone may even be a child. But sure, all a matter of perspective.
To your first point, yes it is perspective to how they got there and what it took to get there. Ya know what we saw of ricks group to make them the “good guys”. Morales brief return was kind of a hint towards this fact. The second part, yes there are bad people in the world walking dead or real world but not everyone such as the saviours would have been that pre apocalypse. Perspective is a big part of story telling, maybe get some?
What the fuck are you talking about? Are suggesting the means justify the end? So serial killers developed from years of abuse aren't bad?
Nope, what I’m saying is Rick’s group did bad things too. The only reason they are considered the “good guys” is because you see their journey, you understand why they kill people and do what they do. The walking dead built episodes around characters like negan, morales return to show this and it still went over your head. They allude to it quite often. Perspective.
You're acting smug and smart while having no understanding of anything. We are not having a discussion about 'good guys'. You stated ".. no bad guys" and that is objectively wrong.
I’m not being smug and the title literally says “satellite station. Who’s the bad guy?” So how we aren’t debating that I will never know. Now if you want smug then please re read the title little boy, there’s your smug 😏
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Omfg. I’m the moron? Did my comment start a new post or something? My comment is for the post you fucking idiot not you. Omg that shows you only have one view point of view(that’s the simple term for perspective btw dumb fuck) and that’s your own. Sit down
Don't get mad at me because you don't know how threads work.
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There are too many people and factors in this situation that there was a good or bad guy.
The Saviors had already tried to kill Rick’s group when they attacked the outpost. Hence, Daryl blew them the fuck up. That could’ve been the end of it.
When Alexandria ran short on rations, their first thought was to try and negotiate terms with Hilltop. Hilltop refused to help them unless they went and killed all those people at the outpost. Whether you like Saviors ways or not, Negan said it himself, like half if not more of those people had kids, and families, same as Rick’s group. Rick wasn’t there when Abe, Sasha and Daryl were stopped and might’ve not even known about it, which is why he had asked Gregory straight up who Negan is as if it was the first time he’s heard of him. Despite this, and rationally knowing that they had families, decided that he and his people should rally a bunch of guns and kill of them in their sleep. THIS WAS an immoral decision, but disregarded it for the sake of feeding the people who believed in him. THIS WAS a moral decision.
The problem is that he expected no repercussions, not even thinking that any of them could slip away and regroup to attack. We saw what a small group could really do when the Wolves attacked Alexandra, and when Rick’s group took Terminus, and when Carol and some others (I dont remember who) was taken by the other Savior women.
Another problem was Jesus and Gregory, who never told them how large the Savior population really was and that if they attacked the outpost they’d likely track them back to Alexandria.
Then again, the Saviors found Hilltop, and they found Oceanside, and they found The Kingdom. So, theyd likely find Alexandria. Of course Rick didnt know this, and went to slaughter them.
The Saviors are bad people with horrific ways of dealing with issues, but Rick had no idea of their moralities, families, or their supplies. And he killed them anyway, knowing he could find more food elsewhere like he did that semi truck.
Rick was the villain here.
Preemptive strike doesn’t make you a villain. It makes you smart.
like I said, Rick didn’t actually know Negan would come for him until he did. For him it wasn’t preemptive strike, it was desperation for the good of his people. Rick is definitely a way better man than alot of twd characters, but idk its just my opinion and I can definitely see where other people come from because I thought the same way when I watched it
Except for the part where he was told multiple times they would come for them? Including by the saviors themselves? He was told by multiple people at hilltop, and then it was confirmed by Daryl telling him that they were ambushed by Negans men, and were told they were gonna follow them to wherever they lived and take their shit. Idk how y’all conveniently forget this. A guy literally showed up and stabbed Gregory right in front of Rick because of the saviors wanting their shit.
yk what that actually makes a lot of sense. I cant make a reasonable argument against that. You’re right bro
In the grand scheme of things, Alexandria is lucky the Saviours didn't wipe them all out the night they killed Glen and Abraham
The why is from a neutral point of view, Alexandria launched an unprovoked attack against a saviour outpost murdering over 2 dozen people, most of them in their sleep and in retaliation the Saviours only killed 1 person from Alexandria I say 1 because they were only going to kill one for that incident Glen died because of Daryls outburst that is actually insanely generous and merciful
I hate the whole "Rick was the bad guy here" as if the group wasn't already attacked and the other communities terrorized by Saviors. Let's stop pretending the men there were completely innocent, most of them likely weren't, and that Negan would be a buddy but he was just a poor guy protecting his group. He wasn't. He tortured his own members, r*ped the female Saviors and terrorized other groups. Just because Rick attacked first, it doesn't change anything.
This question originates from a bunch wannabe edgy fans who are determined to be different, and the later Seasons and spinoffs desperately trying to course correct Negan to make the slave owning, civilian murdering, child murdering warlord feel like a protagonist. There is no “grey area” in this question, people just act like their is
-Let's kill 30+ people in their sleep and take half of Hilltops supplies. LOL.
Vs
-let's kill 1 person and take half of the communities stuff
Uhhhhhh, it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Doesn't matter if Daryl and Co. were attacked by Timmy and the dick brigade. The Saviors aren't a monolith. Not everyone would agree with their methods, and not a single soul knew about any "act of war" made against Rick and his people by the dick brigade. Negan was shown to break people down and corrupt them into something that they're not. Do we know for certain that they were all there willingly and that they enjoyed the things that they were partaking in, such as the brutal murders of innocents and enslavement of communities? No. Did Negan coerce some of those people by threatening their loved ones just like he did with Sherry and Amber? Most likely. Would some of the sadistic fucks in their ranks stick Polaroids of Negans victims above someone's sleeping quarters as a way to break them down? Fuck yeah they would. We can't broad stroke them all as being evil and say that they were all deserving of death just because they were in a regime that did horrible things. There are military's in our world made up of people who were either brainwashed into doing what they do or they were forced through fear to join up and fight for the cause. If they dont join up, they and their families die. The same logic applies here in TWD with the Saviors.
Rick's group was in the wrong. It's all a matter of perspective tbh. They are the main characters so we view them as the good guys but they are basically the same as negan. If someone had killed their people in their sleep they'd have retaliated too. Im watching dead city at the moment, and negan says to maggie, how many husbands and father's have you killed? She completely dodged the question.
I think Rick's group.. Killing people in their sleep?? for half the take and protection of Hilltop is basically what the Saviors were doing.. I think Rick's group got over confident and didn't scope out the situation like they normally did.. We/Rick's group killed people under Negans protection and he could not let that shit fly..
I’m tired of this “Rick and the crew were the bad guys” argument. It makes no sense.
Daryl, Abraham and Sasha were attacked first, and if not for Daryl’s quick thinking, Alexandria could’ve been enslaved, too.
Not only that, but they were also already torturing Hilltop, and had killed people brutally there before, and ordered Gregory to be killed.
Lastly mentioning the pictures of people’s bashed in skulls they had taped to the walls.
Just because it was an offensive attack does not make them the bad guys.
Remember that there’s a whole group of people out there who think the Empire are the good guys in Star Wars.
Yeah but… the Empire did nothing wrong fr /s
r/empiredidnothingwrong
Oh my god! Thank you for sharing this. I had no idea. Brilliant!
Yeah well the contractors building the death Star certainly had no part in how it was used. They're just trying to feed their kids and it was probably a good job.
Can’t argue with that. From what you see in Andor (if you’re watching it) the propaganda is really strong. Still, if they blew up a whole ass planet with it and were ready to do it again, the Empire needed to be stopped and their secret weapon destroyed. Maaaybe they could have taken it without killing everyone onboard, then scuttled it, with far less casualties.
The argument there is a bit stronger really imo... TWD, the satellite group were sadistic brutalists, robbing and killing people over nothing. No one was truly safer by anything related to them. Outside variables still constantly affected the groups under their "protection"
The Empire in star wars, maintained an actual order to lawless areas and brought about a sort of peace, albeit under pressure/oppression. They also gained large scale power "legally", even though corruption and deception were used to do so. While you can certainly argue that they are bad guys in principle of origin and leadership style... the net effect by the time of A New Hope is that the galaxy is more controlled as a result.
Yea but if you follow that logic how are you gonna get upvotes by posting the same edgy shitpost week after week
What Rick and his group did was stupid. They did not have the info they needed. They took the word of a new group and went with it.
We’re they the bad guys? Probably not, just stupid.
The only push back I’ll give is that they were limited time crunch(12-18hrs) to do this anymore then that, the saviors would gone to the hilltop.
Then they would have dealt with that. The Saviors were brutal and barbaric, but so was Rick and Co at the time. They just weren’t the biggest dogs on the block.
Agree. It was shortsighted and rash. They had no idea who the saviors were or what they were up against before they ran into the complex and started killing them.
Yes, it was just stupid. Rick and co. were thinking that rhey were invincible, unstoppable. All they had to do was a little more research on The Saviors and they would’ve realized just what they had gotten themselves into, and could’ve coordinated attacks way easier.
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Right. They aren't the good guys, they are survivors.
Was it possible that the polaroids were taped up by Negan as a reminder of what would happen to the station’s people if they didn’t submit to the Saviors?
If I remember correctly that’s exactly what it was, that was literally explained in the show
Yeah in that case it’s a bit more gray. Would be a bit more like Glenn’s head pasted above Rick’s bed and people justifying Rick getting killed in his sleep over it by some outsider Lol